Long cranking when warm?
12-07-2018, 06:22 AM
#1
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Long cranking when warm - 2001 4Runner 5VZ-FE
I'm trying to figure out an issue that has been showing itself more & more over the last few months.
When first started in the morning, the truck will start as reliably as it's done for the last 17+ years and 419,300+ miles.
But if I drive it for awhile, shut it off and then go to restart, it will crank far longer than normal. I've found that if I turn the key to Ignition On two or three times first, it will start correctly. Once running, it drives & behaves completely normal.
Some info that may or may not help:
- I replaced the original fuel pump & strainer in April at 404,000 miles. The truck refused to start one day so I took a chance that the original pump was finally done. I was unable to find a Toyota pump right away, so I installed a Car Quest brand pump from Advance Auto. The truck has started & run perfectly since.
- All three coils & fuel injectors are original.
- I replace plugs every 25k, and have replaced the plug wires twice.
- I've installed a new fuel filter at every 100,000-mile mark.
- Thinking the crank sensor may be involved, I purchased a new Toyota one the other day but have not installed.
That's all I can think of at the moment. I would welcome any thoughts or recommendations, as I've maintained the truck myself from new and feel like I know my way around it.
Andreas
When first started in the morning, the truck will start as reliably as it's done for the last 17+ years and 419,300+ miles.
But if I drive it for awhile, shut it off and then go to restart, it will crank far longer than normal. I've found that if I turn the key to Ignition On two or three times first, it will start correctly. Once running, it drives & behaves completely normal.Some info that may or may not help:
- I replaced the original fuel pump & strainer in April at 404,000 miles. The truck refused to start one day so I took a chance that the original pump was finally done. I was unable to find a Toyota pump right away, so I installed a Car Quest brand pump from Advance Auto. The truck has started & run perfectly since.
- All three coils & fuel injectors are original.
- I replace plugs every 25k, and have replaced the plug wires twice.
- I've installed a new fuel filter at every 100,000-mile mark.
- Thinking the crank sensor may be involved, I purchased a new Toyota one the other day but have not installed.
That's all I can think of at the moment. I would welcome any thoughts or recommendations, as I've maintained the truck myself from new and feel like I know my way around it.
Andreas
Last edited by aowRS; 12-07-2018 at 06:30 AM.
12-07-2018, 08:51 AM
#2
Registered User
Maybe check the behind the crank t-belt gear to insure that all the "tangs" are on the crank pickup that the crank sensor reads since you will have it out anyways. But I'm just shooting ideas out there.. All 3 of my 3rd Gen 4R's take more cranks than the average vehicle to start it seems, but its consistent..
12-09-2018, 09:35 PM
#4
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Ever had the injectors serviced or tested for resistance? Resistance will go up after they've warmed up, and if they're originals that is A LOT of mileage on them. I had the same lingering issue with my 3rz, i had two injectors that didn't throw codes but were testing high for resistance. Replaced them with some injectors from LC Engineering, a new cat, a/f sensor, had the valves adjusted by Toyota...a lot of work done all at the same time, so i wouldn't be able to narrow down the culprit. Every now and then it still does that long cranking, but when it does, it is one extra crank than normal.
Crank/cam sensor is a good place to test, maybe your MAF sensor should be cleaned/tested as well.
Clean out the throttle body/ IACV?
Crank/cam sensor is a good place to test, maybe your MAF sensor should be cleaned/tested as well.
Clean out the throttle body/ IACV?
12-18-2018, 09:00 AM
#6
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
I'd rather the fuel pump not be to blame, as that was one hell of a job. Should it become necessary, I do have a brand new Toyota pump in the box. I had already ordered it when I decided that I needed to get the truck running sooner and installed the Car Quest unit instead...
That said, I put 1,000 miles on the truck last weekend. Before leaving, I dumped another helping of Techron in the tank (as I do a few times a year). The long cranking times have disappeared. I've started the truck a few dozen times since last weekend and all traces of the issue are gone. Not sure if that's reason to celebrate just yet.
I discussed this issue at length with Dan (fierohink), and his thoughts are:
My personal theory is injectors, but that’s partly because I had injectors die 2 years ago, so your 2 year younger truck would be due now too. Injectors have a winding in them that can be compromised by the expansion from heat. Cold they would read within range on a meter, but hit they would develop an open circuit. Not all the time, but enough to cause a miss and hard starting. Like tapping on a lightbulb and getting it to work again. If it’s the injectors, and it could be coils too, depending on where on that internal circuit it is failing it might be staying open, which wouldn’t allow it to build fuel pressure, or sticking closed which may not be enough to keep it firing.
Andreas
Last edited by aowRS; 12-18-2018 at 09:03 AM.
01-14-2019, 03:46 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
The issue came back a few weeks ago. Since I already had a new Toyota crank reference sensor on hand, I installed it last week. Engine start times are now back to normal, regardless of temperature...
FWIW, I checked the resistance of the old sensor when it was on my bench (cold). Then I warmed it a bit with my heat gun and the numbers went up dramatically.
Andreas
Last edited by aowRS; 01-14-2019 at 03:49 AM.
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01-14-2019, 06:14 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Andreas
01-15-2019, 10:58 AM
#10
Registered User
Resistance naturally increases as heat increases, but your sensor was probably increasing in resistance much more than it is supposed to.
01-29-2019, 08:00 AM
#11
Registered User
Do you have a good link to share that goes over how to properly test the toyota cam and crank sensors? What values to look for under what conditions? Thanks in advance! I have an occasional long crank + engine stumbling to life when warm that I thought was the Idle Air Control Valve, since after cleaning it seemed to have gone away but that was temporary relief.
05-03-2019, 04:33 AM
#12
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Somewhat of an update: a few days ago I noticed a whining sound under the truck. This mornin I pulled the truck into the garage, left it running, and traced the sound to the gas tank....
So after one year and 25,000 miles, my FailQuest fuel pump from Advance Auto is whining loudly. As mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I have a brand new Toyota pump in my shop. While that’s a good thing, removing & reinstalling the fuel tank is an absolute PITA.
With a loud whining such as this, I assume I should drop the tank sooner than later? Does anyone know the Toyota part number for the fuel pump sock/strainer?
Andreas
So after one year and 25,000 miles, my FailQuest fuel pump from Advance Auto is whining loudly. As mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I have a brand new Toyota pump in my shop. While that’s a good thing, removing & reinstalling the fuel tank is an absolute PITA.
With a loud whining such as this, I assume I should drop the tank sooner than later? Does anyone know the Toyota part number for the fuel pump sock/strainer?
Andreas
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RAD4Runner (05-04-2019)
05-05-2019, 11:33 AM
#13
Registered User
I haven’t had a reason to pull all of the carpet out of mine truck, now the headliner that’s a different story, but is there an access panel for the fuel pump under the rear seat?
05-05-2019, 12:05 PM
#14
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Despite these headaches, I can't ignore the fact that I put 400,000 miles on the truck before the original pump gave up the ghost. That's pretty remarkable.
Andreas
05-05-2019, 12:56 PM
#15
Despite these headaches, I can't ignore the fact that I put 400,000 miles on the truck before the original pump gave up the ghost. That's pretty remarkable.
Yes, that's so backward because the first-gen MoreFunner has an access panel, unlike a pickup where you's have to drop the tank in order to replace the pump. It's under the carpet so I cut out an opening for the carpet.
05-05-2019, 01:05 PM
#16
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Cool! May we know if you had waring before the fuel pump quit , or did it just die all of a sudden?
Really? No acces panel on your 4Runners?
Yes, that's so backward because the first-gen MoreFunner has an access panel, unlike a pickup where you's have to drop the tank in order to replace the pump. It's under the carpet so I cut out an opening for the carpet.
Really? No acces panel on your 4Runners?
Yes, that's so backward because the first-gen MoreFunner has an access panel, unlike a pickup where you's have to drop the tank in order to replace the pump. It's under the carpet so I cut out an opening for the carpet.
Andreas
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RAD4Runner (05-05-2019)
05-09-2019, 09:37 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
With the chance of the truck dying from natural causes before this new Toyota fuel pump gives out (the first one lasted 400,000 miles), I opted against cutting an access hole in the floor. Instead, I spent a good part of yesterday repeating the joy I experienced one year ago (when the original pump failed and I installed a cheap-o FailQuest pump from Advance Auto), and removed the tank, installed the new Toyota pump, new Denso screen/filter, and new Denso tank gasket. Despite the fact that I had already done this murderous job once before, it was in no way easier the second time around. What. A. Pain.
Once the tank was back in place, the truck started right up. I've put about 100 miles on it since, with numerous warm restarts. It runs great and I haven't experienced the long crank times again that started this thread. Hmm....
Andreas
Once the tank was back in place, the truck started right up. I've put about 100 miles on it since, with numerous warm restarts. It runs great and I haven't experienced the long crank times again that started this thread. Hmm....
Andreas
Last edited by aowRS; 05-09-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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old87yota (05-09-2019)
06-01-2019, 05:27 PM
#19
Okay a couple things. First off I have this problem. I believe I don’t have a crank position sensor but mine being a pickup coil in the dizzy. I’m guessing you can change yours out separately? I’m not sure where yours is located.
My question is. Did you ever have it not start on you at all when turning ign on/off a couple times didn’t work? and if so what did you do to solve that.
I have this issue now and I use starter fluid in any intake port and it will crank over.
What readings were you getting when checking?
thank you
My question is. Did you ever have it not start on you at all when turning ign on/off a couple times didn’t work? and if so what did you do to solve that.
I have this issue now and I use starter fluid in any intake port and it will crank over.
What readings were you getting when checking?
thank you
06-01-2019, 06:00 PM
#20
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
^ No more long-cranking issues since installing the new Toyota fuel pump earlier in May. I’ve put a few thousand miles on it already. Good luck getting yours figured out.
Andreas
Andreas
