If I had to choose a Dana44 axel it would be from an old 60's International Harvester 1/2 truck.

But, nothing says more than a Ford 9 inch axel from a late 70's ford pickup.

My total preference would be a GMC heavy 1/2 ton pickup with Dana 60's. The width of the axel was correct but, brackets for brakes and springs would need to be fabbricated. Another disturbing problem is getting the wheel studs on the hub to match Toy rims. It would be more fabrication time and money.

Why put yourself through so much hell trying to get drive lines to match or frabicated for the front using a Dana 44 without the installing a true beefy axel.

Note:

The front IFS axel is considered a full floating axel. Stronger than a normal Dana44 sem-floating axel. I understand there are some full floating Dana's but, there are from older rigs.

 

Couple things i have to correct you on, "heavy 1/2's" never, NEVER, had D60's. Not only that but the heavy 1/2 was only available in 2wd. It had a 12 bolt rear end vs. the 10 bolt and had the 454 option.


Now, for a little history. Back in the 67-72 style trucks (chevy), there was (as a rare option, VERY RARE) a 6-lug Dana 60 rear in some 1/2-tons. AFAIK, it was a c-clip design with 30-spline axles. Only available in the rear end. Kaiser J-trucks did have a factory 6-lug dana 60, but again, only in the back.


Another, every single front solid axle is a full floater. Every single one (yes, this inclueds portals). Calling the IFS full floating is a bit of a stretch.

Rear axles are different, there were full floating 44's and 60's. there were semi floating 44's and 60'd. Toyota even has had a few full float rear axles, though they were most all in LC's and 1 tons.

I dont mean to be an ass, but i hate being missinformed as much as the next.

 

Thanks for the education.

Most of the material i had listed in the previous post came from the Toyota Truck and LC bible.

I will re-educate myself before speaking another word on dana axels.

 

joez went pretty light on you. I'm not sure if anything in this post is right.

why would you choose a 60's 44??? You know there is a reason you never see closed knuckled 44s on anyone's rig. They suck...

Your "note" is really bad. Makes me doubt you actually know what full floating/semi-floating means. Pretty much all front ends are considered full floating, 44, IFS, 30, 60, 35(ttb) you name it. full floating simply means that a spindle carries the weight and not the axle shaft.

hell to get the driveline to match up? you either get the the shaft made with the right yoke on one end or you call up high angle driveline and get there pinion flange and use your existing drive shaft and get it retubed. Been there, done that. Wasn't hell...

I could go on and on...

 

Based on this, you will be much more capable if you get front and rear lockers rather than SAS with open diffs. For instance, in the CO4RJ vid one of the Caskeys had an open diff 85 truck that had trouble on obstacles that all of the ifs, rear locked trucks just walked right over. Lockers will give you a much better return on investment than a SAS alone will.

With dual lockers you will blow away the taco (assuming he's open diffed or even locked rear) and you will give the GC a run for it's money.

 

The info was a near qoute of what is written in
"Toyota Truck & Land Cruiser" by Moses Ludel
pages 330-331.

If the info in the book is not correct then I would like to know.

 

not sure why any of that info would be in a book about Toyotas but yes, the majority of what you posted is incorrect...

 

Yup, but i know that this isnt pirate and and there is a lot of missinformation floating arround out there. How it got published i will never know. amusement, any chance you could scan pages? My library doesnt have that book.

Anywho, back on topic, Robinhood is correct, lockers will get you a lot further than flex alone. If you definately plan on a SAS in the future, spend the money on a quality rear locker, and then either get a used 3rd member for the front, or something like a lockwrong. If you spend $900 on a front locker only to SAS in 6 months, you are pretty much throwing your money down the drain. If you plan on keeping the IFS for a while, then invest in something a little better.

 

I was wondering about that. See, I have just graduated from a 2wd Taco to this..... 4WD's are not my area of expertise. My brother's Taco has open diff's. One main reason I wanted to SAS my runner....I love flex.....I love to crawl.... But I might just take the advice and lock-up quick... I don't really have the money now for ARB's, so what kind of locker's would you recommend? Front and rear? My truck is 5-speed, so I think that helps with the offroading. I was actually thinking of the 4.7 transfer gears, but I need help elsewhere first. Maybe the lockers are my route out... Thanx a bunch for the info....

Josh

 

Where to start is one of the most challenging questions. My answer says that you also have to look at where you want to finish. Tires, Gears and lockers tend to be the typical first place to go. Base your gear choice on the FINAL tire size you plan to go to. With your rig, 5.29 gears is probably optimal if you plan on going 35s or larger. You can do lock-rites fairly inexpensively and they'll work even when you change gears. They are a cheap locker, but most guys like them. They're a little weak for the larger tires...

Good aggressive tires, lock-rites and then gears. The dual t-case is an amazing option, but you're getting into some serious bucks by that point.

 

the 4.7 t-case gears are not an option for you...

then I echo what everyone else is saying...

 

Standard operating procedure for 3rd gens is to lift ~2-3inches with spacers $, OME suspension lift $$, or sway a away suspension lift $$$$, and throw on 33in tires and rock sliders. At this point you'll be just as capable as the tacoma.

Now, you have decide if you want to lock front and rear, or just rear. Do your research on selectable lockers Vs auto lockers, auto lockers have some quirks (especially in the front). Keep in mind it's not absolutely necessary to regear with 33s, it's still driveable.

I think you'll be surprized at what you can do with just a rear locker. You can get dual transfer cases once you learn the limits of your truck.

 

ozzfan1JC, all I have to say is....

http://www.marlincrawler.com/

 

Well first lemme say my mods. I first installed a revtek spacer lift in the front, and OME lift coils in the back. Now my problem is wanting to keep my front-end from turning all the time, but that's another issue. I have new model Tundra wheels, and 285/75R16 Remington Mud Brutes as rolling stock. No scrubbing until almost full flex in the rear, with no sway-bar. I am looking into lockers now. If any more advice.......just say.... Thanx people....Keep the info coming....

 

I want one of these..
That would be pretty cool, and I "fake" low 2wd with my hubs unlocked all the time.. be nice to really have it!

 

I find myself posting this about once every couple of weeks.....

I keep seeing posts by people wanting to build a competent offroad vehicle, and automatically assume that they need a solid axle up front. They decide this without ever really exploring the ability of their IFS vehicle. Why spend all the time and money to do a SAS, and realize that you'd be just as happy with a rear locker? If you've got the money and know-how or know-who (someone thats going to help you), go for it. However, this is what I'd suggest. Spend a little bit of money and throw a locker in the rear of your vehicle. This is something you'd likely do anyways even if you did a SAS. From my (limited) experience, the times I've seen people not be able to get through particular obstacles has been due to 1) lack of traction (get a locker) and 2) not enough ground clearance (get a lift). Wheel with a locker in the rear for 6 months, and if you're still aching for better articulation and are getting left in the dust by your friends, go nuts and get a SAS. I'm all for making incremental changes and building up your skills in the process, instead of going on one or two runs and deciding that you have to have a tubed out buggy to have any fun offroading.

 

 

I hate to disagree No I don't I love to disagree - it makes it fun.
This is coming only from my own personal experience, including the effect on my bank book. I think it's a good idea to decide where you want to end up and then find a good path to get there. I have no problems with the idea of adding a locker in the rear and then go have fun, since you'll probably use it anyway. But, if a guy want's to build a solid trail rig with good lift, tires, lockers etc, it makes more sense to go the SAS route before he ever buys a lift kit. The IFS lift kits are quite expensive and if you go with any 4" kit, you are asking for trouble if you stretch the limits too much. For not a lot of extra money, you can go with a basic SAS and and a rear coil spring lift for not much more than an IFS lift. By basic I mean, Toy rear leafs, plain Jane solid axle with the stock rotors, brakes, etc.
My story is all about how much stuff I threw away realizing it wasn't enough for what I wanted to do. Now if I could only pay attention to my own preaching!

Off my soap box. Flame suit on!

 

I agree with what your saying Gibby. To restate/rephrase my earlier statement- if you can test the waters without potentially wasting too much money in the process, then that's what I'd push for. To take a daily driver all the way to SAS without any intermediate steps is a pretty big leap. I just see people spending alot of time on yotatech and other boards and getting all hyped up with the idea that theyhave to have SA vehicle to be "hard core" without really knowing what their vehicle can do. Its one thing if the person is an experienced wheeler, but I get the impression alot of guys just get sucked into the hype of SAS without realizing they might be happy with just wheeling what they have.

I would have to disagree about the cost of a real basic lift compared to SAS, particularly for 3rd gen 4runners. 800 bucks for new coils and a pair of SAWS is a whole lot cheaper than a solid axle swap. If you go with spacers in the front instead of SAWS, it'd even be cheaper. Hell, if you're main goal was increased ground clearance, get a cheap body lift and you could run 33's. 95% of the vehicles on Yotatech have got 3 inches of lift top, probably 5% of that 95% seriously push the limits of their vehicle, and 2% of that 5% of that 95% could really justify doing a SAS. Its late on a friday afternoon, but if you do the math, you'd see a pretty small number of people that really "need" a SAS. I think my guesses are pretty close, based on a couple thousand yotatech members, and all of 2? SAS'ed third gens....

 

I was quoting a basic SAS vs an IFS lift. You can pick up an SAS kit for about $150 with the brackets that you need. You can pick up an 82 complete front end for about $250 and a set of used Toyota rear leafs for about $50. You may or may not need a driveline change - probably not at 3". Now I'm talking about 2nd gen. I know nothing about 3rd gen. Add a simple cross over steering for $250 more and you've got an SAS for under $1000. It's a little more than an IFS lift, but the performance certainly will exceed an IFS lift AND, you don't throw the IFS lift away next summer.

I agree that a well designed IFS truck with lockers, great tires and a good driver can do just about anything the pacific northwest has to offer - if they have a winch If they want to build a higher end, more durable trail rig, SAS is the way to go. WATRD has gone through the same stuff. We all agree that learning to drive with a more stock rig, and growing the rig as your ability grows is the ideal way to go.

We do see this all over the boards - how should I do my build up? I have $1000 for the first stage, where should I spend my money? Tires, lift, locker - what should I do first? Recongnize any of these subjects??

There still isn't a single answer to this question. I personally like to see people ask the question so that those in the know can throw in their two cents and help someone make a more informed decision - even if it's not the one we would have chosen. I get tired of the Pirate and SNORT guys telling everyone to search, search, search. Sure, search is good, but it's a lot more fun to work your own thread and get the answers to your questions, rather than someone elses. That was a different soapbox, but even though I post there as well, that really bugs me. Sometimes there are way past the point of rude.:pig: