I currently own both systems, and wheel both systems, one very hard, one not so hard...

In my limited experiance SAS'd rigs eventually end up as BPOS hard core rigs that aren't worth a 10th of what was spent on'm...and the expense to keep wheelin' junk is very, very, very high. If you want to play hard, you'd better have some serious extra $$$. In four years I've spent well in excess of 15K on building and repairing my junk.

Yes it's fun, but guess what? After a while driving a rig like mine on anything BUT extreme stuff gets to be less exciting, and offers no challenge. Right now I'm having a ball going back to "basic" wheelin' and trail riding in the basicly stock '98 Taco. I'll make a few more upgrades like some SAW's up front and add-a-leaves to the rear to get an 1-1/2 or so of lift and to improve the handling on washboard stuff, but other than that it'll stay as is.

Later

 

cool perspective.

 

You just can't quit, can you?

"Hindering the progress of the human race as a whole"? I can only hope that was your feeble attempt at a joke. If not, please, return to kindergarten. You'll be much more at home there.

How is it false? Did you own my Jeep? Have you driven my Toyota? Have you wheeled either one of my vehicles? I passed on my experience. It's not my opinion, it's what I observed. If you care to tell my why my senses all failed, and my perception of a comfortable ride is way off, then go for it, champ.

If IFS as a whole rides worse than a solid axle, maybe you can tell me why they replaced solid axles in nearly every truck and SUV out there. Yes, there are some differences between a ZJ and a 2nd gen 4Runner. No, the comparison is not perfect. But it is passable. There's too many variables to make any comparison perfect. Even comparing an '85 4Runner to an '86...what PSI in the tires? What kind of tires? How thick is the sidewall in the tires? What shocks? What kind of road, or terrain? How fast is the vehicle travelling? Have the t-bars been adjusted? Is everything in the suspension in good working shape? Is it a fluke with just one vehicle or the other? Was the vehicle weight exactly the same? How much gas in the tank?

Until you've taken multiple vehicles and answered those questions and more, then don't open your trap about "scientific method", you obviously don't know crap about it. And spare us anymore of your "knowledge", which you seem to be pretty enamored of. You didn't even have the reasoning to buy an '85, and now you're probably just mad you have to SAS an '86.

There's too many variables to make a perfect comparison. I gave my experiences and reasons why both had advantages in different situations, in an attempt to be helpful. 2nd gen IFS isn't the pinnacle of independent suspension. I'm sure the 3rd and 4th gens are much better. Grand Cherokees, especially the newer ones, ride about as well as any solid-axle vehicle will ride (or an FJ/FZJ-80 since their set-ups are pretty similar). Saying that SFA or IFS is always better is wrong, any way you cut it. Try being helpful, neither of us have been contributing to that.

I find it funny, and by funny I mean idiotic, that you can't even say "Jeep". My ZJ was more reliable than my 4Runner, oddly enough, because I was lucky enough to have one of the only reliable drivetrain combos (4.0, AW4, and NP242) that Jeep made. If I gave a rat's what Pirate thought, I'd be there, not here.

 

ok, lets give a rundown on our comparisons via the scientific method. first lets do mine:

test 1
vehicle: 1986 toyota 4runner
chassis: body on frame
tires: 33x12.50 goodyear MTR 26 psi rear, 25 psi front
rims: stock sr5 alloy rims 15x7

front suspension: IFS w/ BJ spacers
front shocks: gabriel gas magnum

rear suspension: 63" chevy springs
rear shocks: gabriel gas magnum

vs.

test 2:
vehicle: 1986 toyota4runner
chassis: body on frame
tires: 33x12.50 goodyear MTR 26 psi rear, 25 psi front
rims: stock sr5 alloy rims 15x7

front suspension: 1983 solid axle with factory rear springs
front shocks: gabriel gas magnum

rear suspension: 63" chevy springs
rear shocks: gabriel gas magnum

lets see, everything is held as a control except for ONE VARIABLE: the front suspension

now lets take a look at yours:

test1
vehicle 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee
chassis: unibody
tires: ???
Rims???

front suspension: RE 5" lift coils on solid axle
front shocks: ???

rear suspension: RE 5" lift coils
rear shocks: ???

vs

test 2
vehicle: 1995 toyota 4runner
chassis: body on frame
tires: 32x11.5 BFG AT/ko
rims: Stock alloys

front suspension: IFS
front shocks: OME?

rear suspension: OME coils?
rear shocks: OME?

HOLDUP!!! i dont have all the blanks filled in, but you have a heck of a lot more variables than i do in my comparison.

 

To keep with your theme of the scientific method. Can you post your methods of measuring the ride quality between the two vehicles? How did you analyze the data you collected?

 

i never claimed that IFS rode worse as a whole. you keep trying to put words in my mouth

you are right, there are a lot of variables, and no, your comparison isnt passable. see my post above. comparing an 85 to an 86 isnt a passable comparison either, IMO unless you neutralize all but one variable.

read my post above to see whom has a better understanding of the scientific method. as far as i can tell, you seem to be the only one who has a problem with me sharing my knowledge.
why would buying an 85 in the first place have been more 'reasonable'? because it would have already had a solid axle? my solid axle cost me $100. im better off now for having SAS'd the 86: better calipers, wider rear axle, proper steering box for x-over, etc. i couldnt have bought all that for $100 to put on an 85.

there are a lot of variables to be considered, yes. im sure your intentions were in the right place when you passed on your experiences, but the fact still remains that your comparison isnt as accurate as mine.

i never stated that either was always the best solution. i was trying to be helpful to this thread. the title is 'SAS or Total Chaos?' peopel kept on saying that IFS has superior ride, etc. i was simply stating that SAS'd rigs dont have to ride like crap, especially if properly done.

 

If you don't like this tread, don't read it. ˟˟˟˟.

 

Tampons? How will that help a long travell suspension? Did I miss something?

I broke my cv's webwheelin the other day, maybe tampons could have avoided that.

If your so closed minded to call something gay....you're probably not open enough to accept Long Travel suspension or DVD's yet.

Have fun with your 8 tracks and beta players.

 

sooooooooooo, justin I hope this helps.................................

 

gee goley gosh, thanks for taking me out in your rampage. I made a joke and complemented this board, i did not ask for your negitivity.

 

Looks like you missed my joke, too...bummer. Maybe we could both use remedial facetiousness detector classes. I knew you were joking, and I was joking also. My bad if it didn't come across like that, I was a little worked up, and the Jeep bashing on here gets old sometimes.

 

Good. Then we agree on something, at least. If you want to continue the pissing match, be my guest. Nothing I can say will convince you that there's any validity to what I said, and that's fine. I'm biting my tongue. For my part, I'm sorry (to everyone) for driving the thread off into worthless tangents.

One last tangent: TUNE_UP... shut up

 

sorry, I didnt catch that. I guess it is just one of the failures of electornic mediums, the inability to comunicate nuances.

 

Hey, I'm new to this board. I have an 01 taco with a 6" Fabtech and 3" body lift. I go to pismo very often and have been planning on adding the TC long travel. Trust me I know they are two different worlds, that's why I only considered SAS for about 1/2 second. If you want to have more fun at the beach and maybe hit the rocks every so often I'ld stay IFS. Even now with IFS and slightly less travel than stock I can still get in some awkward positions on boulders. Plus if you're like me and ground clearance is important thats just one more bonus of IFS.

You see why I lean towards IFS , plus this is no where near the heights I reach. just with the delay on the digicam it was hard to time it right.(note to self: buy a camera with video.)

 

I cannot believe the rampant personal attacks and out right garbage that has been thrown around in this thread.

Wheel travel is not the sole measure of performance in any arena.

This is a fact.

Long travel IFS, or any IFS does not weight the drooped tire. It can be halfway faked cross linked shocks, but that is a lot of BS for minor gain.

A linked solid axle truck can jump like hell and still crawl.

A long travel IFS truck can jump like hell, but crawling it is not the same in both the pure, simple sense of same as well as the inflated and convoluted web sense.

If you drive old junk on rocks, hang a solid axle.

If you think a 22RE is good enough motor to power your truck off sweet jumps, I am sorry.

This is the greatest perversion of the truth I have ever seen here. There is no redeeming truth to be gained because of the volume of crap that has poured forth.

I will be awake for a couple more hours.

 

Ouch......do you do that often?

 

Thus far i think the only thing that has been decided is that a person must decide for themselves what they want.

The rest is mostly who can piss farther than who/who's got the bigger johnson.

The jeep stuff was actually interesting, since i had been wondering about the ride comfort/handling for their coil set ups for D44's and how those rode. Some more to look into there

Both of these systems involve serious cash, and unless stock is completely pushed to the limit, you "need" neither. It boils down to what you want.

 

Again I think a big confusion arises when people talk about crawling. I think all of the solid axle advocates are thinking of extreme Black trails where IFS will surely not cut the mustard. Understood.

I think what the IFS advocates are trying to express is that for general wheeling and mild crawling, IFS will do fine.

I think the majority of this board does moderate crawling at best. Even then, a great deal of this board's members are running stock IFS and doing ok. On those same trails, I believe the extra travel of an LT kit will not hurt the performance. And for what it's worth, the steering and driveline compinents are of equal strength to stock.

I think most offroad terrian is grey area where both systems will work equally, but then there becomes the threshold where each out perform the other. I think a great percentage of yotatech members do not or will not cross those thresholds. Therefore not needing either system, but at the same time not losing anything but money upgrading to either. I like both but I could only do one.


Feel free to delete this post, as it has no redeeming value.

 

[QUOTE=Flygtenstein]
If you think a 22RE is good enough motor to power your truck off sweet jumps, I am sorry.
[QUOTE]

What difference does the motor make?

A 4cyl truck at 50mph will jump the same height as a similar 6cyl truck at 50mph. But the 4cyl truck has the advantage of less weight therefore ensuring a slightly more level landing.

Stick to crawling, dude.

 

Someone stole a punchline from PBB..