Vibration in Steering wheel
08-18-2004, 10:50 AM
#21
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08-19-2004, 12:56 PM
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buddha,
here is my update as of today. had my alignment checked, it was not off at all, had the same reliable shop do that for me as before (cost was $30).
so i went to the dealership...and talked with the service guys. they talked me into bringing in my rig, and have their "best" front end guy look into it. i'm gonna take him for a test drive also. the service people wanted me to hold off on starting CV work, which was my plan. at the alignment place, the mechanic and i checked the rack, he felt it was in fine shape. bushings did not appear to be worn, everything seemed tight and in fine shape.
they are charging me $80 for this diagnostic service tomorrow, if they find something i can put the 80 towards repair. if they don't find anything, they will not charge me anything.
but the service guys seemed real interested in the balance of tires....so here i go again....
sigh..
here is my update as of today. had my alignment checked, it was not off at all, had the same reliable shop do that for me as before (cost was $30).
so i went to the dealership...and talked with the service guys. they talked me into bringing in my rig, and have their "best" front end guy look into it. i'm gonna take him for a test drive also. the service people wanted me to hold off on starting CV work, which was my plan. at the alignment place, the mechanic and i checked the rack, he felt it was in fine shape. bushings did not appear to be worn, everything seemed tight and in fine shape.
they are charging me $80 for this diagnostic service tomorrow, if they find something i can put the 80 towards repair. if they don't find anything, they will not charge me anything.
but the service guys seemed real interested in the balance of tires....so here i go again....
sigh..
08-19-2004, 05:29 PM
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Hey Buddah, I'm new to this forum and thought I should drop a note or two since I have this same problem with two different trucks. Both trucks had the same issues and both were resolved with the replacement of the BFG KOs. The BFGs were killer on the trials but horrible on the road. Vibration and wheel shimmy took place from 40-75MPH
I had a 94 4Runner that had brandnew BFG KO (32x11.5x15) put on the truck when the issue arised. Not sure what tires you have but the issues went away when the tires were replaced. I had also replaced the steering stabalizer bar prior to purchasing the new tires and it made no difference.
The same issues came up when I put new wheels and the BFG KO (285/75R16) tires on my 02 Tundra TRD 4WD. Must have visited Discount tires 20-30 times before I bought another set of wheels and tires for the Tundra. The new tires (Yokohama Geolanders) made a world of a difference. I didn't have anymore steering wheel shimmy.
I had a 94 4Runner that had brandnew BFG KO (32x11.5x15) put on the truck when the issue arised. Not sure what tires you have but the issues went away when the tires were replaced. I had also replaced the steering stabalizer bar prior to purchasing the new tires and it made no difference.
The same issues came up when I put new wheels and the BFG KO (285/75R16) tires on my 02 Tundra TRD 4WD. Must have visited Discount tires 20-30 times before I bought another set of wheels and tires for the Tundra. The new tires (Yokohama Geolanders) made a world of a difference. I didn't have anymore steering wheel shimmy.
08-19-2004, 08:48 PM
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Snow,
good luck, as of today, august 19th, my truck still does a little shimmy here and there, but its not all over the place as it was before.
Mudrun,
I'll give the yokohama geolanders a look when my tires are up, i can't justify spending ~400 on a new set (give or take), and having the problem still possibly exist. I mean, i only have 20k miles on my bridgestone Duelar AT's, and there's plenty of tread left! I also think Bridgestone should warranty my tires if it is indeed their tire that is the cause of the vibration. But people have reported similar problems on Dunlops and even Goodyears, so that leads me to believe that the problem is with toyota.
I honestly believe that the problem lies somewhere inside the steering system, but i have neither the time, nor the money to have it dissasembled and analyzed for problems. Something has to be loose, or coming loose, because i've had friends watch the wheels from another car next to me on the freeway, and they see no odd vibrations in the tire.
I'm close to my next oil change, and i plan on taking the Service Manager on a ride onto the freeway, so i can show him the problem, and have him hopefully do something about it.
However, If this matter continues to go unresolved by toyota, or no members find a fix, I will be selling my 99.... I hate to say that, but this problem is totally unacceptable, is very SERIOUS (to me) and potentially dangerous. (Can you imagine two front wheels being broken off the arms and hurling dangerously down the freeway?)
If toyota decides that they are not to blame, or decides not to investigate the problem, I will be forced to take the following courses of action:
1. I'll be calling Ralph Nader's office to get him on the case, as he did in the 60's with safety belts
2. I'll be calling David Horowitz of "Fight Back" to get National TV time
3. Michael Moore's next documentary will be: Buddha, Slayer of the Toyota Giant
4. Some calls to the DOT and the NHTSB will be made
5. Some calls will be made to the Better Business Bureau
6. I might file a class action lawsuit
Ok, the first three may not happen, but 4-6 will happen if i find no remedy. Let's all hope toyota does the honorable thing and gets a recall and fix out to all the owners who have a 3rd gen....
Buddha
good luck, as of today, august 19th, my truck still does a little shimmy here and there, but its not all over the place as it was before.
Mudrun,
I'll give the yokohama geolanders a look when my tires are up, i can't justify spending ~400 on a new set (give or take), and having the problem still possibly exist. I mean, i only have 20k miles on my bridgestone Duelar AT's, and there's plenty of tread left! I also think Bridgestone should warranty my tires if it is indeed their tire that is the cause of the vibration. But people have reported similar problems on Dunlops and even Goodyears, so that leads me to believe that the problem is with toyota.
I honestly believe that the problem lies somewhere inside the steering system, but i have neither the time, nor the money to have it dissasembled and analyzed for problems. Something has to be loose, or coming loose, because i've had friends watch the wheels from another car next to me on the freeway, and they see no odd vibrations in the tire.
I'm close to my next oil change, and i plan on taking the Service Manager on a ride onto the freeway, so i can show him the problem, and have him hopefully do something about it.
However, If this matter continues to go unresolved by toyota, or no members find a fix, I will be selling my 99.... I hate to say that, but this problem is totally unacceptable, is very SERIOUS (to me) and potentially dangerous. (Can you imagine two front wheels being broken off the arms and hurling dangerously down the freeway?)
If toyota decides that they are not to blame, or decides not to investigate the problem, I will be forced to take the following courses of action:
1. I'll be calling Ralph Nader's office to get him on the case, as he did in the 60's with safety belts
2. I'll be calling David Horowitz of "Fight Back" to get National TV time
3. Michael Moore's next documentary will be: Buddha, Slayer of the Toyota Giant
4. Some calls to the DOT and the NHTSB will be made
5. Some calls will be made to the Better Business Bureau
6. I might file a class action lawsuit
Ok, the first three may not happen, but 4-6 will happen if i find no remedy. Let's all hope toyota does the honorable thing and gets a recall and fix out to all the owners who have a 3rd gen....
Buddha
Last edited by 4RunnerBuddha; 08-19-2004 at 08:51 PM.
08-23-2004, 01:08 PM
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howdy buddha,
heres my update:
alignment checked out ok by a shop i trust.
so i went with the dealership offer, took the tech for a test drive and he felt and saw the wobble. he felt the aggressive suspension + BFG's were gonna be the problem, they kept my truck a whole day at the dealership.
that afternoon, i get a call, they were a bit frustrated as everything on my driveline, suspension, front end....everything checked out fine!
they did not charge me a single penny and said "its gotta be these tires." they told me.
as Mudrun shared with us, and as discount tire people told me (because i took my truck in again
), and as the toyota dealer said, these BFG's are not the straightest things around.
combination of stiffer springs and shocks ( i have bilstein + PP 1" yellow springs) are helping me feel the wobble, i guess....
oh yeah, discount tried 4 different balancing approaches so far, the best one for my setup is the "roadforce" balancing method.
geolanders will be on my list, i wish i could test them out....
i've been checking out the new Saab 9.2 X alot lately
peace out
heres my update:
alignment checked out ok by a shop i trust.
so i went with the dealership offer, took the tech for a test drive and he felt and saw the wobble. he felt the aggressive suspension + BFG's were gonna be the problem, they kept my truck a whole day at the dealership.
that afternoon, i get a call, they were a bit frustrated as everything on my driveline, suspension, front end....everything checked out fine!
they did not charge me a single penny and said "its gotta be these tires." they told me.
as Mudrun shared with us, and as discount tire people told me (because i took my truck in again
), and as the toyota dealer said, these BFG's are not the straightest things around.combination of stiffer springs and shocks ( i have bilstein + PP 1" yellow springs) are helping me feel the wobble, i guess....
oh yeah, discount tried 4 different balancing approaches so far, the best one for my setup is the "roadforce" balancing method.
geolanders will be on my list, i wish i could test them out....
i've been checking out the new Saab 9.2 X alot lately
peace out
08-24-2004, 03:41 AM
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Yo Budda,Before you go thru all that,try swaping a pair of front tires/rims from another vehicle(or borrow someones spare and use yours).If the problem goes away you know it's the tires/rims.If it's exactly the same it's a steering component,wheel brg,ball joint,ect....
08-26-2004, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HondaTec521
Yo Budda,Before you go thru all that,try swaping a pair of front tires/rims from another vehicle(or borrow someones spare and use yours).If the problem goes away you know it's the tires/rims.If it's exactly the same it's a steering component,wheel brg,ball joint,ect....
Hi honda,
I tried what you mentioned but still had problems. Since having my tires/wheels balanced on the hunter system, there has been less vibration at the wheel. the funny thing is, i just found this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f177/recall-bridgestone-dueler-tires-39598/
I'm going to see if i can get a free replacement....
08-27-2004, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 4RunnerBuddha
Hi honda,
I tried what you mentioned but still had problems. Since having my tires/wheels balanced on the hunter system, there has been less vibration at the wheel. the funny thing is, i just found this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39598
I'm going to see if i can get a free replacement....
I tried what you mentioned but still had problems. Since having my tires/wheels balanced on the hunter system, there has been less vibration at the wheel. the funny thing is, i just found this thread:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39598
I'm going to see if i can get a free replacement....
08-27-2004, 07:20 AM
#29
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I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, or maybe I missed it, but here's is what you need to know about your wheels first.
Hub-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered on a raised center portion of the hub. The lug nuts/bolts then serve only to hold the wheel in place on the hub. Most tire balancing machines use a conical wheel mounting mechanism to locate the wheel/tire on the machine for balancing.
Lug-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered by the lug nuts/bolts themselves, often with clearance between the center of the hub and the cut out in the wheel. Toyota wheels are lug-centric and as such require a special lug-centric fixture to be properly balanced on a cone-type balancing machine, as the wheel center hole may not be exactly centered on the lug center point.
4Runner wheels are lug centric. That's the whole reason for the Haweka adapter, to center the wheels on the machine. If they were hub centric you wouldn't need it, hence Jaos wheels. You don't need to use the Haweka if your own Jaos wheels, since they are centered at the hub.
4Runners in general have a very sensitive front end, and it anything is off just the slightest bit, you will feel it. Not every lug centric wheel needs the Haweka, but you will on the 4Runner is you want the best balance with your stock wheels.
Jaos brand wheels are hub centric, thus cost MUCH more $, and you won't need the Haweka from what customers tell me.
Hub-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered on a raised center portion of the hub. The lug nuts/bolts then serve only to hold the wheel in place on the hub. Most tire balancing machines use a conical wheel mounting mechanism to locate the wheel/tire on the machine for balancing.
Lug-Centric:
A hub and wheel design in which the wheel is centered by the lug nuts/bolts themselves, often with clearance between the center of the hub and the cut out in the wheel. Toyota wheels are lug-centric and as such require a special lug-centric fixture to be properly balanced on a cone-type balancing machine, as the wheel center hole may not be exactly centered on the lug center point.
4Runner wheels are lug centric. That's the whole reason for the Haweka adapter, to center the wheels on the machine. If they were hub centric you wouldn't need it, hence Jaos wheels. You don't need to use the Haweka if your own Jaos wheels, since they are centered at the hub.
4Runners in general have a very sensitive front end, and it anything is off just the slightest bit, you will feel it. Not every lug centric wheel needs the Haweka, but you will on the 4Runner is you want the best balance with your stock wheels.
Jaos brand wheels are hub centric, thus cost MUCH more $, and you won't need the Haweka from what customers tell me.
08-30-2004, 12:17 PM
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Jason,
Thanks for the info, I knew about the haweka adapter, and Longo Toyota (my new dealership for servicing) claims they have it along with the hunter balancer.
My problem isn't totally solved, but its at least bearable for time being. I'll look into the Jaos wheels when it comes time for new tires, so hopefully i will be able to report good news....
Buddha
Thanks for the info, I knew about the haweka adapter, and Longo Toyota (my new dealership for servicing) claims they have it along with the hunter balancer.
My problem isn't totally solved, but its at least bearable for time being. I'll look into the Jaos wheels when it comes time for new tires, so hopefully i will be able to report good news....
Buddha
09-14-2004, 07:12 AM
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howdy gang,
heres my update:
while my runner's front end was on jack stands, i turned the front wheels and noticed my drivers side brake disc would rub against the disc on one spot, the other does not.
took my rotors off, had them checked for warpage and machined(they were a little warped, but not very bad. the guy at brake masters who did the work is a 99' runner owner). cost= $10/disk.
sidenote:
BTW, he told me that toyota brake discs warp alot, and 4runners with rear drum brakes, really warp alot. especially because the rear drums are often adjusted too loose, so all the braking force is on the front disk. to check your rear drum adjustment, while jacked up, spin the rear wheel and it should stop after one complete turn. if it turns freely or a few rotations >5 than its not adjusted correctly.
i replaced the end link, and stabilizer bar bushings, i could visibly see the end link bushings were worn out. i've inspect all the bushings and rubber mounts, everything seems to be in good shape, but visual is not enough probably. OEM bushing costs=$25
after putting my rotors and wheels back on and new brake pads, i bled the brakes and took the truck for a quick spin, still shaking at the exact same speed. AND YES, this is with the new wheels and the vibration is the same with my stock wheels that i replaced.....that i may sell in the future
***jacked up my truck, and the drivers side rotor is rubbing the same as before.
what do you guys think? wheel bearing?***
going to look for the 36mm socket and attack the hub next. the dealer quote is $350/bearing $600 for two bearings, uhhh i will do what work i can.
peace
heres my update:
while my runner's front end was on jack stands, i turned the front wheels and noticed my drivers side brake disc would rub against the disc on one spot, the other does not.
took my rotors off, had them checked for warpage and machined(they were a little warped, but not very bad. the guy at brake masters who did the work is a 99' runner owner). cost= $10/disk.
sidenote:
BTW, he told me that toyota brake discs warp alot, and 4runners with rear drum brakes, really warp alot. especially because the rear drums are often adjusted too loose, so all the braking force is on the front disk. to check your rear drum adjustment, while jacked up, spin the rear wheel and it should stop after one complete turn. if it turns freely or a few rotations >5 than its not adjusted correctly.
i replaced the end link, and stabilizer bar bushings, i could visibly see the end link bushings were worn out. i've inspect all the bushings and rubber mounts, everything seems to be in good shape, but visual is not enough probably. OEM bushing costs=$25
after putting my rotors and wheels back on and new brake pads, i bled the brakes and took the truck for a quick spin, still shaking at the exact same speed. AND YES, this is with the new wheels and the vibration is the same with my stock wheels that i replaced.....that i may sell in the future
***jacked up my truck, and the drivers side rotor is rubbing the same as before.
what do you guys think? wheel bearing?***
going to look for the 36mm socket and attack the hub next. the dealer quote is $350/bearing $600 for two bearings, uhhh i will do what work i can.
peace
09-18-2004, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sn0w_m0nkey
howdy gang,
heres my update:
while my runner's front end was on jack stands, i turned the front wheels and noticed my drivers side brake disc would rub against the disc on one spot, the other does not.
took my rotors off, had them checked for warpage and machined(they were a little warped, but not very bad. the guy at brake masters who did the work is a 99' runner owner).
after putting my rotors and wheels back on and new brake pads, i bled the brakes and took the truck for a quick spin, still shaking at the exact same speed. AND YES, this is with the new wheels and the vibration is the same with my stock wheels that i replaced.....that i may sell in the future
***jacked up my truck, and the drivers side rotor is rubbing the same as before.
what do you guys think? wheel bearing?***
peace
heres my update:
while my runner's front end was on jack stands, i turned the front wheels and noticed my drivers side brake disc would rub against the disc on one spot, the other does not.
took my rotors off, had them checked for warpage and machined(they were a little warped, but not very bad. the guy at brake masters who did the work is a 99' runner owner).
after putting my rotors and wheels back on and new brake pads, i bled the brakes and took the truck for a quick spin, still shaking at the exact same speed. AND YES, this is with the new wheels and the vibration is the same with my stock wheels that i replaced.....that i may sell in the future
***jacked up my truck, and the drivers side rotor is rubbing the same as before.
what do you guys think? wheel bearing?***
peace
so i figure my wheel bearing(???) is mis-aligned for whatever reasons making the brake disk behave like a out-of-true bicycle wheel.
i figure wheel bearing or drive axle related.
got to the point where i need to remove the upper ball joint from steering knuckle. i broke the puller that i had doing so, guess i need the SST.
anyone know of a reliable toyo mechanic in albuquerque???
09-18-2004, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hypnotoad
for what it's worth, an out of balance driveshaft will produce the same symptoms as out of balance wheels - I speak from experience
hmmm...good point. I would check mine if my rig wasn't 2wd.
09-19-2004, 02:51 PM
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anyone have an RS5000 Steering Dampner/Stabilizer on their truck? I replaced my stock one with a Rancho, but the installation notes kind of sucked so I want to see if anyone with one could take a picture of theirs so i can try to compare to mine and find if I may have installed it wrong. I know its not that hard to install one, but I just want to check. I have a thread where I am having the same problem, so I guess I'll start posting in this one to prevent there from being more so many about the same topic.
My problem occurs between 25-45MPH and it mainly starts when I either come out of a turn in these speeds or if I hit a hard bump or pothole, it will start shimmying between about 11:00-1:00 on the steering wheel. Its frustrating as hell. I am taking mine back in on Tuesday morning and having my balance checked AGAIN and seeing if they'll cross-rotate my BFG AT's. We'll see how it goes! Any more advice on mine, since it starts when I drive out of a corner or something in these speeds?
My problem occurs between 25-45MPH and it mainly starts when I either come out of a turn in these speeds or if I hit a hard bump or pothole, it will start shimmying between about 11:00-1:00 on the steering wheel. Its frustrating as hell. I am taking mine back in on Tuesday morning and having my balance checked AGAIN and seeing if they'll cross-rotate my BFG AT's. We'll see how it goes! Any more advice on mine, since it starts when I drive out of a corner or something in these speeds?
09-21-2004, 11:41 AM
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UPDATE:
I took my truck to the place I got my tires and had them balance and rotate them again. I also asked them to check the tire-wear and see if there was any cupping, etc... They told me that the tires were wearing normally, nothing wrong with them and they did the balance and rotation. After that, I still have the shimmy shake. I did notice that it was AS BAD as before, but its still bad. Still up for suggestions...
I took my truck to the place I got my tires and had them balance and rotate them again. I also asked them to check the tire-wear and see if there was any cupping, etc... They told me that the tires were wearing normally, nothing wrong with them and they did the balance and rotation. After that, I still have the shimmy shake. I did notice that it was AS BAD as before, but its still bad. Still up for suggestions...
09-21-2004, 01:50 PM
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same problem here, I went last week and told them to use the HUNTER machine and it says so on the service log.......and......it worse than before. it only happens right around 65-70mph, it's funny how it's always that speed. I'd be going there(discount tire) again for the 4th time to get this straight. I even got an alignment last week thinking thinking this could be a contributing factor=NO! 
09-22-2004, 02:03 PM
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went back to discount tires for the 4th time. told them about my frustration, they used the hunter machine, used the adapter and even used my own lugnuts to mount the wheels on adapter for balancing. i'm gonna get on freeway tonight and see if it worked.
They said "if this doesnt cure it, we're gonna replace your tires" I really wasnt asking for 4 new free tires but I wouldnt mind it. I just want to balance my damn tires!
They said "if this doesnt cure it, we're gonna replace your tires" I really wasnt asking for 4 new free tires but I wouldnt mind it. I just want to balance my damn tires!
Last edited by 2001Millrunner; 09-22-2004 at 02:05 PM.
