You have GOT to be kidding me. I think you just haven't driven the right cars. I definately don't see any validity to this statement...

 

so you are saying that Japanese cars aren't reliable and German cars aren't fun to drive? I always thought Japanese cars were pretty darned reliable. Don't know much about German cars since I've never driven them but I know they are in the shop alot. I actually have alot of fun driving my 4Runner and don't have much fun driving anything but it.

 

Care to elaborate? And for what it's worth... I'm talking primarily about cars under $50k. Sure Japan puts out a few nice 2 seaters, but their 4-seaters leave something to be desired (IMO). I've driven a friend's Lexus IS a few times, and it's not as much fun as my wife's BMW, and the lexus was $8k more. Toyota doesn't make anything that can compare to an Audi/BMW in terms of overall fun and comfort. neither does Honda. Infinity maybe (not real familiar with Infinity), but I doubt it as Nissan doesn't really make a true sport sedan.

If you've got some suggestions, I'd love to hear them. I'd love it if I could find something as fun/comfortable as an Audi/BMW but as reliable as honda/toyota.

BTW... I hope none of this sounded sarcastic, I'm not trying to be an ass.

 

No, you got it all wrong. I am saying Jap cars are both...

 

That has been my experience too.

 

Nissan makes the Maxima which is very quick and very fun to drive and available with a manual. You seemed to have completely over looked the Subaru WRX STi and the Mitisubishi Lancer Evo. Those are not very expensive and arguably the best 4 door sports cars on the market (IMHO they are THE best). Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. If any others come to mind I will add them later...

 

The Maxima is available with a 6 speed manual. It has a 3.5L DOHC 24 valve V6 with 265HP and 255lb-ft of torque. Redline at 6600 RPMs. 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 14.9 @ 95.8 mph. Electronically limited top speed of 140 mph and pulls .81 g on the skid pad. That sounds like a whole bucket of fun to me. Base price is $26,950.

Also available in the Nissan line up is the SE-R Spec-V also available with a 6 speed manual. It has a 2.5L DOHC 16 valve I4 with 175HP and 185lb-ft of torque. Redline at 6200 RPMs. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.6 @ 90.5 mph. Top speed of 135 and pulls .86 g on the skid pad. Comes with Brembo brakes and a limited slip diff stock. Not bad for a car with a base price of $17,300. This car is a steal in the sporty 4 door market and looks very cool IMHO.

I would take either of those cars over an A4 if I was looking for a sporty 4 door.

 

BTW, just to clarify. We are talking about the Audi A4 1.8T correct? Because the 3.0 is more expensive than the price tag you complained about on the Lexus IS by a cool 2 grand...

Assuming the A4 1.8T here is how it stacks up. It starts at only a grand less than the far superior Maxima at $25,940 and that only gets you the 5 speed manual front wheel drive version. I can only imagine how much they tack on for the 6 Speed Quattro version. It has a 1.8L turbocharged 20 vavle I4 with a laughable 170HP and 166lb-ft of torque. 0-60 in a painfully slow 7.8 seconds and an electronically limited top speed of 130 MPH.

For almost an extra *9* grand more than the SE-R Spec-V you get a car that performs significantly worse in every way and is probably a whole lot less reliable. So tell me again what is more fun about the A4...

Have I made my point yet?

 

Bought my 1999 new. Check engine light lit on the way home.... ughh. I had just come from 98 Corvette nightmare, so I was a little more than miffed. Turns out my dealer was one of the places to help with a TSB that was subsequently released about a wiring goof somewhere.

No problems other than the ongoing brake problems which only bug me at certain times.

Hey Jackson,

What about an Infinity G35? I hear they are very nice cars.

 

My windshield wasn't sealed right and whistled at high speed and the rear view mirror rattled. Both were fixed under warrantee.

 

bought it new on 8-02, it has 15565 miles now. No problems so far except I disconnected the DRL then the highbeam indicator is on when you turn off the headlights. The dealer kept the truck 3 days but couldn't fix it. They finally re-connect my DRL.

 

My brand-new car experience-1st yr problems:
1990 Civic- New, my first new car, loved it to death. Inspires great loyalty. My parents helped me buy it and I kept it immaculate. Sold it when I needed cash as a struggling, just out of college kid.

1997 Lexus GS 300- No problems, great car. Super comfortable, stunning quality but I didn't like the image or attention from it and it was impractical.

2000 Nissan Xterra 4x4 (bought in 1999)- Front main seal leaked,
infamous loose window regulators-replaced but never fixable-design defect,
3M tape repair to prevent roof rack wind deflector from rubbing paint off the roof,
"Powdercoat" paint on steprails and roofrack chips off easily. Warranty repair but I didn't bother to do it.
some loose trim and squeaks and rattles that I never bothered to get fixed.
Other stuff I forgot about.
Majority are warranty repairs.

2003 Toyota 4Runner- missing little pin on rear pop-up cupholder, the front seat rattle (seems like it might be a design defect).
edit:I have a suspicion that the detailer from the car buying service I used broke the pin on the cupholder so I am not fully going to blame Toyota for that one.

Both are warranty repairs but the cupholder requires disassembly and entire center armrest to be replaced and re-upolstered- I said "no". I'll do it myself.

I haven't had time to go back to do the front seat. I actually just missed an appt. this morning!

 

If you want a Honda, you can go with the Acura TSX. The TSX is available with a 6 speed manual. It has a 2.4L i-VTEC DOHC 16 valve I4 with 200HP and 166lb-ft of torque. Redline at 7100 RPMs. 0-60 in 7.0 seconds and top speed of 145 mph and pulls .78 g on the skid pad. Base price is $26,490. Once again, a much better automobile for roughly the same price. There just isn't any good reason to go with an A4. I drove an Acura Integra for over 3 years and never had even a single problem and my family owned it since new, my brother drove it for 2 years before me. You simply can't get a better vehicle.

I would really like to see Toyota throw their hat into the sporty 4 door arena to see what they can come up with. It is a market segment that I like has grown significantly over the past few years and toyota (minus Lexus) doesn't have a single offering.

 

I will never buy a German car. They have too many electrical problems (BMW, Merc, VW/Audi) and it's a crapshoot whether you get a good one or lemon.

When a problem does occur it's never a small thing but a major repair.

Mercedes does stupid crap like a completely sealed brake system. To replace pads (or anything brake related) you have to do all 4 at the same time. My friend was so pissed at the price of replacing the pads shot up to several hundreds of dollars! I still remember that. I think Mercedes the the best out of all of the teutonic brands though.

BMWs have failed electronics and problems guaranteed.

Porsche - I just hate the image.

I dislike the interiors on most german cars compared to japanese counterparts.

 

I didn't buy my 97 new, but my dad bought his '96 new. During the first year of ownership, it never went into the shop. Nothing went wrong and as of right now (112,000 miles later) it has had its starter rebuilt, timing belt changed, and the two recalls (head gasket and rear springs) that's it.

 

Same with my 96 except for the starter. (Based on the previous owner and her records).

 

So really then, you only don't agree on the validity of "half" of his statement.

 

I own a Toyota and a Porsche.

I have owned the Runner for 12.5 years and the 911 for 10.5 years (before this I owned a 944 Turbo for 7 years).
As a long term owner of each, I have to admit that there is some validity to the Japense = Reliability and German = Fun statement.

My Runner has had very few things go wrong with it. Almost nothing during the bumper to bumper warranty period (maybe some minor interior things and the rear window defroster). The only things that went wrong then with the Runner, besides my injectors' springs weakening and bleeding down the fuel system, were things that the Dealer messed up when they did the 2 recalls (A/C Recall and the Head Gasket Recall). Both times, things weren't put back together correctly and I ended up having to get additonal things fixed, i.e., power steering pump & pulley and , etc. After 100k miles, my auto trans was rebuilt. Now with the first Porsche, that thing was a maintenance whore. You could just look at it and something would break. And the item that broke, no matter how obscure it was, it would cost a fortune to repair. However, that car was fun the drive. It was loaded with heated supple leather seats, power everything, moon roof, etc. It was much more fun in the speed and goodies department than the Runner. However, I was never so glad to sell a car than I was when I sold the 944 Turbo.....the fun wears off real quick when it is in the shop all of the time and the wallet gets light from those visits. My 911 is completely different. It is a version of the '73 911 IROC cars. I went with a car that was on the oppositie end of the spectrum from the 944 Turbo...... my 911 has power nothing....no power brakes, no power steering, no power windows, no cruise (it even doesn't have a brain), and no sun roof. It is carburated with 6 carbs, and very raw, very loud with a racing muffler, very rough riding with stiff anti-roll bars and Euro ride-height suspension, and will move pretty quick. Besides being the fastest and best handling car I have ever owned, this car is very reliable!! I can go +150 mph in it everyday if I choose to and it will always start and my mechanic grinned at me last year when I took it to him to have a few items repaired and his comment was that now I only see him once a decade instead of once a week like the other Porsche.

I guess my long, narrative point is that it is really hard to generalize because there will always be an anomoly. I think that my next car will be a Japanse (specifically Toyota) because I am sure of their reliability and I find them fun and satisfying to drive.......the newer German cars, I am not so sure of their reliability.

David

P.S. Oh.....and by the way, I also owned a late model Mercedes sedan and fortunately I saddled the ex-wife with that maintenance nightmare when we divorced.

 

I purchased a Audi Fox decades ago. It was a cluster from day one. Leaking head gasket, weak steering linkage and leaked water from the front windshield.

The next vehicle I purchased new was a VW Rabbit. Its K version of VW's fuel infection was a horror story.

The next vehicle I purchased was a new VW GTI. It has an L version of VW's fuel injection ... same horror story.

While I flushed ten's of thousands of dollars down the drain my neighbor had the same 1979 Toyota 1 ton pickup for over 15 years with only brake, clutch and tune up costs.

I bought a new Nissan hard body pickup and had bearing failures in the manual transmission. Dealer would not cover it. I spent thousands on repair and traded it on a lease return Tacoma.

After driving 135K miles I traded the Tacoma for used 95 SR5 4x4 and never looked back.

 

JUNK!NO KIDDING