snacks

Well, since I just found the forum maybe I should put this out there before changing the trans!

2000 4Runner 4x4 auto 3.4L w/CA emissions 101k

Last Wed evening had a low whistle noise for maybe 3-5 mins before overheating and I shut it down. No tranny slip or probs. Had it towed, started it twice for less than 1 min to diagnose and moved it from one pad to the next so thats the only time gears were switched. It was after move we discovered extent of problem.

Finally narrowed to the trans cooler failure (or radiator actually) but thought I was saved because the trans dipstick showed good fluid, albeit low. When removed the trans lines from red, milkshake. When removed lines from trans pan, milkshake. When dropped trans pan, coated in milkshake. Then I went and threw up the milkshake I had for lunch...

No where did I find or speak to anyone who thought there was a chance of saving it. All said they would put $200 to flush it towards a new tranny. This happened last Wed and it has set still til now (Mon night) with milkshake still in trans.

Anybody have any hope in hell that it could stil be saved? Or worth the hail mary attempt?

I also have another post as, if I have to replace trans no one can tell me for certain the dif between a Cal vs Fed emission trans!!??!!

And to add to the fun, I bought this 4runner less than 6 wks ago and I'm looking to have replace the trans already...

vr4boy

i have a 96 4runner that sufferred the milkshake issue mid summer-bought it from the prev owner that way-he took it to a mechanic and suggested a new tranny.
the issue was so bad that i thought the tranny was toast-severe contamination of the tranny fluid,milkshake in radiator/cooling system,milkshake on the tranny pan that settled and was thick.
thanks to this forum, i attempted the tranny/coolant flush b4 looking for a new tranny and all the work paid off....it's driving fine now and shifting w/ out any problems-as a matter of fact drives better than my 2000 ltd.
here's what i did-i drained the tranny fluid,removed the pan for cleaning,changed the filter and flushed it w/ cheapo tranny fluid b4 dumping in the good stuff(original toyota) used abt 6,4 liter jugs walmart brand tranny fluid for flushing and finished off w/ toyota.
i replaced the radiator too and will be doing a dedicated tranny cooler next week as what i've done to my 2000 ltd last weekend.
all is still well and have put about 5k miles on it w/ no issues whatsoever....
i flushed the cooling system too btw...


i'd do the tranny flush first and see what ur outcome will be...chances are(w/c i know is really good) it'll all be saved as you may have caught it on time
good luck and post ur outcome...

mpavolka

Man I am sorry... this doesn't seem to be all that uncommon with 3rd gen 4Runners. For the amount of cost in replacing an automatic tranny if it were me I would try everything before giving in.

If you have a trusted mechanic that is willing to put the time into saving it it might be worth it. For $200 though I would buy a bunch of automatic tranny fluid and try to flush it yourself. Maybe try getting a new radiator, filling the tranny full of fluid and leaving those tranny lines disconnected... run the car making sure it is not overheating. refill the tranny and keep doing it til there is no more water in the waste fluid.

Typically corrosion in the coolong system leads to tranny cooler failure.

Elton

pretty poor idea should of made a separate tranny cooler than goes in front of the rad

icerunner

Yo, sorry to hear that!!! everyone and their brother was telling me that i needed a new trans.. You may have caught it early... Your auto trans is built like a tank and can be saved!! SO SAVE IT!!!!

The Procedure (like I said prepare for a FREAKIN mess)
1) flushed out the TRansmission with 20 Quarts of fresh (and cheap) ATF Untill it ran the right color...see below for drain and fill recomendation.
2) Drained the cooling system as mush as humanly possible with galllons and gallons and gallons of water with the engine running.
3) Removed the old radiator
4) Replaced old OEM radiator with brand new KOYO aftermarket radiator (you need to ask for it) negotiated $160.00 delevered with lifetime warrenty with tax included" from 1800-radiators (beats the $550.00 dealer price for OEM). Very impressed with the Koyo unit as it fits perfectly and looks really well built. Koyo's have a reputation for quality..
5) Flushed out the Cooling system with an INSANE amount of water and then drove the vehicle for 20 miles flushed again...Repeat repeat repeat Finially the system was pure water. NOTE: be very carefull running PURE water with no antifreeze in the wintertime as if the car sits it will freeze you can crack/ ruin your 7,000.00 engine..
6) added right mix of Toyota Red long life coolant and distilled water

for the trans:in the begining "drain and fills" every few miles X 4... btw: DONT DARE DRIVE IT TILL IT (ATF) RUNS CLEAN...pretty soon the atf is pretty dam clean... also every 3K miles Ive been doing "drain and fills" for the trans with valvoline max life ATF 4 qts out, 4 fresh quarts in..and pay attention to maintaining the correct ATF levels.

10,000 miles after the incident and the trans is still good to go. NOW GO OUT THERE AND KICK SOME ASS!!!

snacks

Well first I want to thank the board because this is about the only place that has given me any hope.


I woke up this morn and decided that while today may be the Marine Corps Bday, it is also the day I am going to save my tranny! Thank you Iceman for the steps and for the encouraging outcome!



Couple questions before I begin this afternoon. I have already removed the old radiator and flushed the cooling systems probably about 60-75% of the way. Don't want to put the new one on yet til fully flushed so can I connect the upper hose and just run water out of a garden hose through the engine to keep flushing? Could reconnect the old if have too...


Also, I have already dropped my trans pan. What can/should I do before reattaching it to perform the flush? Change/clean the filter? Clean anything else visible off? What fluid/cleaner can I use to clean out the pan?


Will update as I can and keep the board informed of outcome. Jeebus be with me on this!!

mt_goat

I clean oil pans in a parts washer (Naphtha), then blow dry with compressed air. You could also clean it in the kitchen sink with soap and water and blow dry. Put the magnets back where they were after cleaning them.

I'd just replace the filter myself. After that, you might consider putting the pan back on temporarily with a cork gasket so you can drop it again later easily and reclean the pan and filter. I say cork because the FIPG is so time consuming to clean off the mating surfaces and will work ok for a temporary gasket until you get rid of the milkshake.

Here's a good write-up on do it yourself home flushing: http://home.centurytel.net/stevenjac...sh/tranny.html

snacks

Printed out the steps for the flush and will begin soon! Little worried about the cure time for the seal since I've already dropped the pan, I really wanted to try to complete the initial flush today.


Just looked at the "old" radiator and found a part #PA66-GF25 but no mention of Toyota. Appears to be an aftermarket?? The truck has 100k and I can see the corrosion around the trans line connections. Guessing the previous owner changed the radiator but why needed before 100k and how long ago if already corroded? Still don't think this is something he could of hidden but...



****EDIT - after reinspecting and cleaning I did find a Toyota stamp so I do believe it was original. The corrosion would support this!

mt_goat

See my note above about a cork gasket or there is a FIPG product avaliable with no cure time...its called "Right stuff" something like that. It's in a cheese wiz type can at the auto parts stores.

snacks

Thanks again goat. I just got a "rubber" gasket from NAPA that fits the pan. As long as I can scrape it clean enough I'll use that at least temporarily and watch for leaks. No cure at this point will be a help. Also have some permatex if I wanna go that route.

Still trying to decide how to handle the radiator since I already have the old out...

About to dive in now...

snacks

Update from yesterday for those that are interested:

Got about 4 hrs work in on it and don't feel like I made much progress! But I know it was all part of the process that had to be done.

First, the link Goat posted was incredibly helpful! If you need to drop your trans pan, follow the steps and you'll be golden. I dropped the pan and eventually did release the sway bar. It was a process cause of access but much easier to get to the pan once down.

I wasn't able to remove the dipstick tube but got the pan low enough to allow good access. Of course at the very end, the tube somehow worked itself free and fell through! Then I had to figure how to get it back up in there!

Spent a good hr scraping the old seal off, hope I didn't etch anything too bad. Did discover the corner of the pan was bent slightly where it was pried free so gonna have to try to straighten that. Haven't sealed it back up yet but that is next. Going with the gasket for ease to remove again if needed. A small leak probably isn't my biggest worry right now!

What was interesting was how much more milkshake drained from the pan before I dropped it. It poured out for a while and I would say another 3 qts might have drained? It was thinner than before and after removing the pan and filter, while it was still milky, the drops remaining had a much more clear and red color appearance. Very little came out of the filter or the inlets too once dropped.

Back at it again this afternoon. Hope to get the pan back in, new radiator in, and start flushing.

One question, since I have no idea how much ATF was lost through the radiator and has been drained out, what volume should I fill before I start flushing?

mt_goat

Just fill the pan (maybe 5 quarts) then start for a half minute and let the pump suck up the ATF. Check the level on the dip stick during that half minute and shut down. Start adding 1 or 2 quarts at a time after that, when you get close to staying full while the engine is running add just a half quart at a time. If you get too much in just pull the cooler line a drain some out. I'd do lots of flushing with the cheapest ATF first, then switch to a good ATF for the final flush.

gpcollen1

Get a bucket and mark it in quart increments using water as a guide. Pump tranny fluid into bucket only a few quarts at a time by running the engine and shutting it down. Add a few quarts a necessary when engine shut down and repeat until flush complete.

BTW - I used a $50 5-gal bucket from Autozone.

nah2323

Mine went on me at 172k. The key is to POWERFLUSH. take it to the dealer, pay the 149 each flush, and you'll be good. It took me 3 flushes to get it candy apple red. The also flushed my coolant, (and put red in, which freaked me out!) but all in all, i was into it for about $650, and its been flawless for 10kmi. Fluid is still clear.

KEY TO SUCCESS, get the old out of there as fast as you can. the lubricant in the coolant eats the glue on the friction disks.

snacks

Stage II update:

Well another 4 hrs today and the flushing has begun.

Got the trans pan back up, lines connected, and new radiator installed. Got everything set and began the flushing process. Seems like it was pushing more than a qt every 15-20 secs and on occasion it started spitting right as I was shutting it down. First 4-5 rounds almost made me want to cry, milkiest of the thickest strawberry shake was pouring out but slowly it began to take on a more red color, moved towards looking like blood, and then eventually near new looking.

Was able to procure 5 gal buckets of ATF for $25 so I was very liberal in my flushing. It was probably towards the end of the first 5 gal that it started to look new-ish but not new. Went ahead and flushed another 3-4 gallons through at about 2 qt increments. At the end I collected the run off in a cup and compared it to the new. Pretty close. Letting it set til morn so the air will settle out for another comparison.

So...still have to flush the coolant system better but need it to heat up and run to be effective. Also have yet to cycle the gears, I've only run it in park. The trans is "filled' (don't know true level) now and letting sit overnight til I can go again tomorrow.

Guess I'll do one more blood letting and then reconnect the trans cooler and fill to proper level and then cycle the gears? Or should I do this some with the lines off first? Then run to heat the cooling system and change that, then start driving short distances and changing the fluid from the pan for a few rounds?

If I'm using basic ATF now and want to upgrade for the final fill, do I just start adding good as I drain the pan a few times figuring it will balance out over time and the new good ATF will be the predominant fluid?

Just want to thank again all those that have offered help and encouragement! I really need it and really need to save this tranny!

EDIT: Goat, just reread your post, so I should start using good ATF at the end of the flushing (lines off)? Pouring the good in at 1-2 qt increments while ejecting the old?

mt_goat

Sounds good so far, go through all the gears (that will flush out all the little channels in the valve body). Then let it run up to temp and maybe do one more flush with the cheap stuff. Then drive it a little bit and see how it looks. I'd probably drive it at least 25-50 miles before switching over to the good ATF. Ideally you'd want to get the ATF up to temp to help dry out the water in there. If you didn't seal up the pan with FIPG I'd maybe drain the pan and remove it prior to switching over to the good ATF, that will let you check the filter and insides for milk shake. A normal flush will use about 12-14 quarts and yes 2 qt increments are about right IMHO.

icerunner

Man Snacks...Dam good work and keep at it brotha. I know how depressing it is to deal with that Hot mess of a situation. Also not knowing how bad the trans might be sucks..?

BTW 1-800 radiators delivered the aftermarket KOYO for free. Tell them your friend got a price of $150.00. I got a price of $160.00 everything said and done (w/tax incl), and see if theyll match it. Its a direct fit drop in ONLY difference is the radiator side rails are built in to the KOYO so you will just ditch the old side rails and bolt it right up like 4 screws only.

After the ATF runs mostly clean, drive it for a few miles and then do a drain and fill 2 to three times more. 4 qts out, 4 fresh qts in...pretty soon "the math" of the "drain and fills" will take over and you are dam fresh/clean with the ATF. After another 500 or so miles drain and fill 1 more time with a good quality ATF like "valvoline max life" I have had good luck with that. Another 1000 miles Another 4 qts of max life.. Pretty soon there will be virtually no coolant mix left in your trans system.
My guess is that you caught it quick enough. God speed and good luck

snacks

Update after Stage III:

Well, I let her sit overnight before I got back into it this afternoon. I started with one more 2 qt purge out the cooler line. Looked close to new but still a tad thicker. Reattached the cooler lines and started her up. Let her run a few and then tried to get a good read on the dipstick before cycling the gears. Checked the level again after going through and got ready for the big test.

Have about 1/4 mile road to run back and forth on so I did a stretch through each, D-2-L-D with some R thrown in. Didn't slip on me at anytime. Went into gear smoothly and changed gears cleanly while driving. No noticeable shudder or other oddities. Didn't get over 40 mph but at least it seemed to be SOME positive news.

Came back and drained the coolant(water) and flushed with hot water a second time. It will need a number more flushes to come clean I believe.

Guessing that time is the big determinant here. Just because there were no issues at first probably doesn't mean I'm in the clear, but it can't be a bad sign! Did purge 1-2 qts after the drive because I thought it might be high and it came out cloudy red. Guessing air and heat might affect that some but I;m sure there is still more water/coolant to come out.

Well, the plan now is to drive the 35 miles home and drain the pan if I can tonight. Would like to drain the coolant too but not sure if going to be able. If not, once back tomorrow will drain both (70-75 miles) but would like to get it drained both directions. Per advice, will start adding good ATF after a pan drain or three, and once it appears to be near normal.

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. I know I'm not out of the woods yet but at least I feel that I've done about all I could to save it! If there are any steps I'm missing or crucial acts ahead, I'd love to hear them!

Any thoughts on trans additives? Dr. Tranny or other anti-shudder additives?

mt_goat

I've never tried any of them, I just use Mobil 1 ATF (my A340F just specs Dex III) I know sometime around 02 Toyota changed that to something else.

nah2323

Sweet Job Snacks.. Lots of work to get it clean. Sounds like you're in good shape for now. Keep an eye on it tho frequently to see if there is metal particulate in the fluid once you get it flushed to almost perfectly red. Check it often for a while, and if you see little to no change, space out your inspection intervals.

If your disks are going bad, you'll start to see a particulate in the fluid.