Should I convert to manual hubs
Oct 29, 2002 | 07:46 PM
#1
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From: Eastern Virginia
Should I convert to manual hubs
I have a 2002 Tacoma Xtended cab 4x4. This truck has the auto locking hubs and I have heard horror stories about pre-mature wear on the front shafts. Can anyone give me some advice on the pro's and con's of converting to manual locking hubs verses keeping the auto locking system that came factory on my truck? Thank you in advance for your time.
Oct 30, 2002 | 12:03 PM
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That would be negligible though as that's like saying, I bought a 2nd car so I'd put less wear on the Runner. Yeah that's true, but if that's the main reason for purchasing the 2nd car, was it worth it?
This is OEM equipment for which the vehicle was designed and one would spend less in a few boot repairs spanning multiple years than going to a manual kit. Maybe in 15 years it would even out, I don't know.
Having a lift only accelerates the wear and tear.
This is OEM equipment for which the vehicle was designed and one would spend less in a few boot repairs spanning multiple years than going to a manual kit. Maybe in 15 years it would even out, I don't know.
Having a lift only accelerates the wear and tear.
Oct 30, 2002 | 12:32 PM
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Well I realize price is the main concern for the 3rd gen conversion, but my hubs only cost $60, and over the course I have had to replace 3 cv boots which have added up to just over $200. So, in my case, they were definitely worth the cost.
By the way, when did they stop putting manual hubs on Tacoma's...or can they still get them? If they are still available, wouldn't it be significantly cheaper for him to convert his Tacoma than the ORS conversion kit for 3rd Gens? Just a thought.
By the way, when did they stop putting manual hubs on Tacoma's...or can they still get them? If they are still available, wouldn't it be significantly cheaper for him to convert his Tacoma than the ORS conversion kit for 3rd Gens? Just a thought.
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Oct 30, 2002 | 12:51 PM
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Darren - I hope I didn't come across as being rude. I was just trying to point out in my case that it was definitely worth the money that I spent on the Aisin's. However, spending $600 (or whatever it costs) on the 3rd Gen conversion kit is quite a different story!
Oct 30, 2002 | 01:08 PM
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No, not at all. I didn't know kits were that inexpensive. Maybe like you said though, 3rd gen stuff might be more in general. The only 3rd gen one I've seen is $930. I personally wouldn't consider it if I were stock.
Oct 30, 2002 | 02:00 PM
#10
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From: NM
3rd gen manual hubs
I just had ORS put manual hubs on my '99 4Runner. Before the hubs were put on, I thought the steering was normal, a bit heavy. However, after having the manual hubs put on, the steering is lighter, and the vehicle coasts much further. I have lifted my 4Runner, and I can tell you, if you are going to life the front end of the 3rd gen suspension, put the manual hubs on. The wear and tear on any amount of lift outside the factory ride height will definitely wear the CV joints out. With the manual hubs on, I'm very pleased with the work ORS did. They also put 4.88 Yukon gears in and an ARB unit in the front. They did a really good job on the ARB unit. I recently changed out my fluid in both diffs, and noticed very little gear mesh. I was very surprised. I expected to see more.
At any rate, if you are planning on lifting it, I would recommend putting the hubs on.
StevO
At any rate, if you are planning on lifting it, I would recommend putting the hubs on.
StevO
Oct 30, 2002 | 02:27 PM
#11
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From: maine
yeah, if your going to lift definatly put them on. even if your not, you should think about it. they wear a lot less on your CV's, and im not sure about this... but i dont see why it wouldn't help wear on your tires a little bit too. wear on everything. you might want to convert over. and if you lift in the future, your all set.
oh, and im pretty sure you can get manual hubs on newer models. my 99 came with them.
oh, and im pretty sure you can get manual hubs on newer models. my 99 came with them.
Oct 30, 2002 | 04:45 PM
#12
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From: Fort Collins, CO
Darren is right, there is no point in doing it if you are not lifted. The price is high and the pay-offs are marginal.
I have wasted 3 boots since putting on my hubs, but I only drive a 95, so it doesn't really matter.
Seriously though, I would think that hubs should be closer to bolt on for a dude who already has a Taco and some Tacos have real hubs.
Happy trails,
Adrian
I have wasted 3 boots since putting on my hubs, but I only drive a 95, so it doesn't really matter.
Seriously though, I would think that hubs should be closer to bolt on for a dude who already has a Taco and some Tacos have real hubs.
Happy trails,
Adrian
Nov 2, 2002 | 12:06 AM
#13
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From: LA
auto lock
Stick with the auto locking hubs. Why make more work for yourself when you need to lock up. They are very durable and quiet.
It's nice to be able to shift-on-the-fly instead of having to stop, get out, and deal with manuals, especially in cold weather.
:eek:
It's nice to be able to shift-on-the-fly instead of having to stop, get out, and deal with manuals, especially in cold weather.
:eek:
Nov 2, 2002 | 06:23 AM
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The hubs are actually called ADD hubs.
Auto locking hubs were discontinued around '88 I believe.
Those hubs would unlock when you backed up on a trail on you, very inconvenient.
Those of us with manual hubs also have shift on the fly.
What you do is just lock your hubs in when you are in your driveway before you leave if you encounter nasty weather.
That is what I do in the winter time.
Sometimes I will leave my manual hubs locked in for a week at a time.
Then when I need 4WD, I can do it at any speed I need to lock in.
Auto locking hubs were discontinued around '88 I believe.
Those hubs would unlock when you backed up on a trail on you, very inconvenient.
Those of us with manual hubs also have shift on the fly.
What you do is just lock your hubs in when you are in your driveway before you leave if you encounter nasty weather.
That is what I do in the winter time.
Sometimes I will leave my manual hubs locked in for a week at a time.
Then when I need 4WD, I can do it at any speed I need to lock in.
Nov 2, 2002 | 10:49 AM
#15
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From: LA
You're right about the ADD. Automatic Disconnecting Differential. But they did make them past '88. I have them on a '90. Never had them disengage backwards. Shift-on-the-fly meant that you never had to leave the truck to lock anything up. It's also a nice feature if it starts to snow or rain, you can still shift into 4WD at up to 55 mph.
In almost 13 years I have only had to replace one set of CV boots.
I had an '83 4WD pick-up with the manuals. I did the same, locked 'em up before hitting the trail.
In almost 13 years I have only had to replace one set of CV boots.
I had an '83 4WD pick-up with the manuals. I did the same, locked 'em up before hitting the trail.
Nov 2, 2002 | 11:08 AM
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You are still confusing these with Toyota's auto hubs.
Auto hubs & ADD hubs are not the same.
I also had the ADD on my '91 4Runner until I put the Aisin manual hubs on.
let me dig up an article for you...
Here ya go.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/
You will clearly see these are not the ADD hubs.
These unlock on you when you back up on a trial.
Very very bad
Here is a quote from the article.
Auto hubs & ADD hubs are not the same.
I also had the ADD on my '91 4Runner until I put the Aisin manual hubs on.
let me dig up an article for you...
Here ya go.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/autohub/
You will clearly see these are not the ADD hubs.
These unlock on you when you back up on a trial.
Very very bad
Here is a quote from the article.
Here is the AUTO hub. It can be found on trucks from 1984-1988, and on 4Runners from 1984-1989. Do not confuse this with ADD. AUTO hubs are NOT similar to ADD. The AUTO hub has a clutch inside that will lock the hub when it receives forward movement of the axle. Since the axles are not always spinning with this design, you must come to a COMPLETE stop before shifting into 4WD. Under no circumstances can you shift into 4WD while in motion with the AUTO hubs.
The AUTO hub will unlock after 1/4 turn of the axle in reverse. This is the major flaw to the design. Often on the trail we need to back up in 4WD. Especially if the vehicle is stuck, and we're trying to free it by backing out of the hole it is in. With the AUTO hubs, once you shift into reverse and begin to turn the driveline the hubs will unlock, and you'll be left with only 2WD in reverse. The will eventually lock into 4WD again, but having them unlock on you at all is very troublesome.
The AUTO hub will unlock after 1/4 turn of the axle in reverse. This is the major flaw to the design. Often on the trail we need to back up in 4WD. Especially if the vehicle is stuck, and we're trying to free it by backing out of the hole it is in. With the AUTO hubs, once you shift into reverse and begin to turn the driveline the hubs will unlock, and you'll be left with only 2WD in reverse. The will eventually lock into 4WD again, but having them unlock on you at all is very troublesome.
Nov 2, 2002 | 12:05 PM
#17
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From: LA
Thanks for the clear up on the hubs. Disengaging in reverse would be a disaster.
So would he have Auto Hubs or ADD on his '02 Taco? The ADD's are worth keeping. Sounds like this is what's on there.
:pat:
So would he have Auto Hubs or ADD on his '02 Taco? The ADD's are worth keeping. Sounds like this is what's on there.
:pat:
Last edited by bubbamango; Nov 2, 2002 at 12:07 PM.
Nov 2, 2002 | 12:16 PM
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Auto hubs are discontinued.
If he doesn't have to get out and turn anything, he has ADD like I use to have.
Only problem with ADD is your CV shafts are spinning all the time.
It does cut into the horsepower some.
When I lock my hubs in during the winter, I can notice the extra drag with them locked in, but not in 4WD yet.
I don't get any better gas mileage, but I can sure feel the difference when I accelerate with the hubs unlocked.
But yes, it is expensive to convert the 3rd gen 4Runners over.
It only cost me $55 for a used set of the Aisin manual hubs.
Corey
If he doesn't have to get out and turn anything, he has ADD like I use to have.
Only problem with ADD is your CV shafts are spinning all the time.
It does cut into the horsepower some.
When I lock my hubs in during the winter, I can notice the extra drag with them locked in, but not in 4WD yet.
I don't get any better gas mileage, but I can sure feel the difference when I accelerate with the hubs unlocked.
But yes, it is expensive to convert the 3rd gen 4Runners over.
It only cost me $55 for a used set of the Aisin manual hubs.
Corey
Nov 2, 2002 | 12:27 PM
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From: LA
I think the drag is due to the fact that the center diff isn't open, possibly. There is that binding effect, especially at lower speeds while turning. I have even had the engine stall due to the binding effect.
I have a long wheelbase, maybe that has something to do to it. I just make sure I keep the revs up if it comes to that.
I have a long wheelbase, maybe that has something to do to it. I just make sure I keep the revs up if it comes to that.
Nov 3, 2002 | 07:06 PM
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From: Calgary
I just changed to the Aisin's today and am so glad i did it. I got the Aisin hubs at the wrecker for 20 bones. They even threw in an extra hub assembly. This has to be the easiest mod yet and very usefull for me stuck in downtown Vancouver. It only took 20minutes to do both wheels. Didn't even have to take the tires off. I did paint them up sorta like corey's but with blue centres. Anything that can help with wear and tear is worth it. I also noticed that my cv boots are torn, wouldn't have notice if i had left the add hubs on. Plus the fact that if you cave a birf on the trail, you can still make it home. 
