thestrongarm

I just recently took the plunge on replacing the 3.4 (5VZ-FE) in my 1998 4Runner Limited. The previous engine threw a rod; the new donor engine was from a 1999 4Runner, everything exactly the same. The project was definitely a large one, but with lots of reading (the FSM, this forum, and various resources), lots of patience, and lots of labels, everything worked out fairly well, just slow.

I just got everything back in place with the new donor motor. The moment of truth came around, and with the turn of the ignition key....NOTHING.

All dashboard indicator lights are on when the key is in the "on" position. At "start" however, nothing happens. I hear 2 clicks/pops (one louder than the other) at or around the computer area, or very upper passenger side of the engine bay - and nothing else. The starter won't even fire, not even a whine. In the "Start" position I see the battery light and the check engine light. That's all.

I couldn't have been more careful and went to extra lengths like getting injectors cleaned, putting in a new (well, NAPA reman) starter while I was there, new gaskets anywhere they were touched, etc. The battery (Optima Red Top) was out of the vehicle for awhile, and I charged it yesterday, it's reading fine on the multimeter.

My 4Runner does have a Toyota factory security system that was dealer installed later (so I was told from previous owner), and that still cycles on/off with the FOB. I don't think that's an issue.

As you might imagine I'm spent on this project and I wondered if there is something stupid or silly that I am overlooking, something that needs reset or resynced, or who knows what else. Many thanks in advance.

thestrongarm

Update: I got a helper to turn the key to various key positions so I could check out what was going on (or not going on). The click/pop sound I hear in the passenger cowl area is that of the ABS relay cycling when the key is turned to the "on" position.

I did a check on the starter relay-it appears to be functioning fine. In addition, I can hear it click when going to the "on" key position.

There's no activity in the starter area.

J2F42C

Double check all grounds to make sure they are tight. It once took me 2 weeks to chase a bad chassis ground in a Bronco years ago, causing intermittant starting.

In moving all those wires around, given their age, one or more could have broken.

Can you hear the fuel pump turn on? Do you have lights, radio, etc.?

thestrongarm

I'm trying to think of all the chassis grounds, thought I did a decent job on them. Off hand I remember a few: one from the negative battery cable to the driver fender well. One from the computer harness to the firewall. Another from the starter harness to the engine block (on the drivers side). Others I need to check out?

I cannot hear the fuel pump. I do have lights, radio, windows, etc.

I am able to cycle the Toyota security system with the FOB. It chirps on/double chirps off. That said, I am wondering if it is in some way related to that.

Kerby J

i had a problem like this when i installed my dual batteries and the car would then not crank but it was because somehow the isolator had grounded itself with the wire that ran frm the alternator and after i removed that wire it started right up so check to make sure that the alternator wiring is right and that something is not grounded that shouldnt b

profuse007

Simple! get your digital meter and meter the plug-in wire at the starter. then work backward to the relay and to the key.

mt_goat

Did you use the original 98 engine harness?

thestrongarm

Can you clarify the wires/isolater you are referring to from your instance? You removed one and then it started? Removed one from the alternator or from the starter? Or removed and reinstalled, then it worked?

thestrongarm

Correct: I used the existing (1998) wiring harness. The donor engine was from a 1999, but the harness was hacked off at the computer from the boneyard. The rest was largely there, but I simply moved the 1998 harness to the new motor. In the whole project that one took a tremendous amount of time because I carefully removed and labeled everything. It also made me wish Toyota would have done some engineering with more relays versus nearly the complete harness!

I didn't run across anything with the Toyota security system (knowingly). As stated above, the security system is a Toyota system, but reportedly was installed at a dealer afterward. I was told this because the previous owner had a FOB programmed at the dealer before who supposedly gave this information. Something is lingering in my head that this issue might, in some way, be lingering from that system, but since I can activate/deactivate the system with FOB maybe that's [wishful] thinking.

thestrongarm

Without looking, I'm assuming the plug-in wire should get ~12V when key is in the start position? I can hear the relay activate when turning the key, but that's all. I pulled the relay and got continuity between terminals 1&2 (I think it was about 74 ohms), and nothing between the others ?3&5?. on just the relay itself.

When it comes to automotive electrical I'm a novice at best, pretty much limited to a multimeter readings not versed or experienced in jumpers, testing, etc. so your assistance is well received. Thanks.

Kerby J

when hooking up dual batteries in a toyota there is an extra terminal on the isolator that u buy that has to be hooked up to the alternator wiring i cant remember if its the sense wire or the ignition wire but which ever one it is was somehow grounded the way i hooked it up and cause the same problem for me u turn the key and hear two clicks and thats it i thought that mabey i had fried the starter relay but when i removed that one wire everything started right up

the wires that i am refering to is the 3 wire plug on the back og the alternator

thestrongarm

Oh - OK understood. I don't have a dual battery setup. I was wondering what wires I didn't think I had! Thanks for clarification.

JBurt

You might look at the wiring for the transmission. If it's an automatic maybe it's not getting the reading that it is in park. You could test it by just having someone push the neutral safety switch. Not too familiar with manuals but they would have to have some components so that it will only start in neutral. Just a thought.

thestrongarm

Great idea! It is an automatic. I did try starting in park and in neutral. Dead on both counts.

I'm not familiar with the neutral position switch. Is that on the passenger side or driver's side of the transmission? How do I manually push the switch? Does it need held during starting, or is there a manual override.

If on the passenger side, I do remember a connector there that's jammed in behind a transmission cooler line (hard line). I got onto that during wiring harness removal before I realized there was a connector at the top of the transmission that can't be seen from either side, as it's at the top of the tunnel. Maybe you are onto something here and that is a/the culprit. I don't know how that would be removed, with the line in the way. Perhaps I messed something up when turning that out a few threads. Thanks for this insight.

[UPDATE - the connector I was referring to above is the transmission oil temperature sensor. The Park/Neutral Position (PNP) switch is rear of that a bit, has a large connector that drops vertically down into the switch]

profuse007

the starter has two terminal, both positive. The terminal w/ the 10mm(IIRC) nut is constant and the black terminal is switching positive. Test the black terminal/wire to see if you get +12V while key at "START" position.

thestrongarm

Great. I'll check it out when I get back to the vehicle.

I've also seen some information about odd problems after the vehicle sat. This one sat quite awhile before I got the new motor in. Battery died at one point and was disconnected during the entire swap process. I don't know what would happen with an ECM idle, but maybe another thing to check. I'm assuming that would be a dealer issue.

JBurt

I don't exactly know which electrical connectors on the transmission itself are for the neutral position switch (my uncle had this problem on a ford ranger). To use the override like a tow truck driver pop off the plastic cover on the gear shifter right above the "P" (I'm assuming it's an automatic). Maybe the other fine gentlemen here could provide some more insight on the wiring of the switch. Good luck.

thestrongarm

I think you're referring to the Shift Lock Override. Unfortunately, I do know that one, like when the tow truck was there to rescue me from alongside the road after the rod threw :-( Yes, that one is at the shifter. The neutral position switch is on the body of the tranny itself. I looked at the FSM but it's schematic isn't helpful to know which it actually is! I figured the passenger side thing I mentioned to be a temp sensor or level sensor, but I could be totally wrong.

85 PICKUP

I could be totally wrong, but I'm going to throw this out there. I thought that there were a few differences in the 99'+ years for a few of the components (MAF,ICV, or other computer related gadgets).

Maybe something worth looking into.

thestrongarm

That's what this thread/topic was all about. Everything matched up plug-for-pug from the '98 to the '99. I had both engines on-stand, side-by-side, and all looked the same. That said, if there was some difference in circuitry I'd never know what's in the ECM. I simply unhooked the 4 or 5 plugs going into the ECM and plugged them back in later. If there's some programmatic difference I don't know how to even start on those.