Please sell your bracket to someone else.

 

Ok.

 

RH, I like the way you think on this. I have said it before as well, but I agree with you completely. In theory, I see, understand and have experienced the results of corrected, uncorrected, and partly corrected panhard angle on-road and off. If all a person does is pound pavement with stock, or close to stock length shocks, then I really don't think that it is needed.

For what it's worth, I intend to raise the other end of my panhard for now other reason than the fact that I want to keep the other bracket and think that a little bit of this and a little bit of that will be the best.

I think that the raise idea is not inherently better do to source or anything of the like. When I heard it, and heard it rationalized as such, I only thought it to be interesting since I had never heard such a justification. That is part of what I meant with my first post, if you know what that means completely and can calculate other such things, then it probably resounds as the only solution. For the rest of the people, something that goes in easy and stays in, is the best solution.

Darren, Steve, civility.

 

The panhard drop bracket from Steve was definitely needed on my 1997 limited, which rubbed horribly before I put it on. Not mention at normal ride height without it the axle was shifted slightly to the passenger side.

I can't beleive this discussion still occurs as to whether you need it or not. If you wheel often and don't want to deal with the tires rubbing as much, then do it. If you're a street queen, then who cares, and don't waste the money.

But, I can honestly say that it was money well spent for me, since I've been going wheeling 2 weekends a month ever since I bought this 4runner.

Chris

 

When you guys rub your tires (without the panhard drop) does any damage occur? If so, how much? Like a little scuff or will it pull your fenders off?

 

To give you an example, when backing down a steep ledge (because I couldn't make it up), the rear tire flexed up into the rear fender flare, which if I had kep going would have ripped it right off. This was partially due to the nature of the trail, but also due to the more rearward position of the stuffed tire.

But, on the other hand, even with with panhard drop bracket, 285's, and no rear swaybar, I still rub on the rear mud flap/fender flare at full stuff. But, I'm not all that concerned since they are coming off soon when the rear bumper is finished up.

So, does the panhard drop fix the rubbing completely? On a limited it just reduces it. On a SR5, with my understanding, it would probably get rid of it all together as Steve Schaeffer's pics suggest. The limited's flares are much bigger than the SR5's.

Chris

P.S. Just so you know, with a little more gas, I did make it up the steep rock face that was longer than the 4runner itself with 3 nice ledges. It was very impressive.

 

mine shifted about 3/4" - 1" to the passenger side. not arguing with you because it all depends on how much lift you put in and it's just a simple right triangle problem to figure out the delta. It was VERY noticable to my nekkid eye. I don't hardly have any body roll with steve's invention. I am happy with it and it performs the way I want it to so I is happy.

 

I don't rub and damage. at full stuff I get a little scrubbing on the fender lip where removed the mud flap but that's only because I am too lazy to install extended stops to keep it from stuffing too far.

 

...when used in conjuction with the extended stops.

 

Have you done the calculations to figure out how much a lift you need to shift your axle over 3/4 - 1 inch? It'll take a 7.3" lift and a 8.4" lift respectively (assuming the panhard was originally horizontal). Are you lifted 8 inches?

And this is without the panhard drop, right?

I'm not arguing either, but I would like to get to the bottom of this sooner or later. I'm an engineer so I need data showing that at ride height it actually does something. Since I don't have a 3rd gen (yet) I can't take any measurements but from schaefer's pictures, his 2.5 inch drop bracket leaves the panhard bar fairly horizontal (maybe an inch lower on the driver side). So again, that 2.5 inch bracket should only correct the axle about 0.1in. Admittedly, this is mostly academic because it is obviously benefical for off road use. But for future newbies they can find this thread and decide whether a panhard drop is needed. Also admittedly, I could be missing something that actually does move the axle over 1 inch.

 

Here it is simply put:

No Panhard = More rubbing
Panhard = Less Rubbing

That's it in a nutshell!

Chris

 

My axle moved 1cm toward the passenger side with 2" of lift.

I measured before and after the lift years ago. I think the lines I drew are still on the frame.

 

I'm and engineer also. so I like things to be clear and concise too. I did the calcs and in a perfect world (or a vacuum) that would be fine but I am only stating what I observed on MY runner and from my experience. Calculations aside (because I know what you are saying and I understand the simple triangle solution) I had more shift, maybe it was shifted already stock,. But I can honestly say both me and a dude from work both looked and there was a nekkid-eye detectable shift to the pass side which the drop fixed.

No, that is with the panhard drop but no extended bump stop and only at extreme extreme extreme stuff does the light scrubbing occur.

but I agree with you one hundred percent on the theoretical thinking here.

There are too many Mike's and Steve's here, I can't keep them all straight.

 

Bumpstops, you mean those things that preventa now larger tire from going deeper into the wheel well and rubbing on things?

The only way that a drop bracket should help rubbing is centering the tires left to right. The loss of rubbing should occur because the tire is better tucked into the wheel wells.

I rub frame right now on full stuff with extended bumpstops and a mostly correct panhard angle.

I am interested that people are not commenting on it resolving gas tank humping. At least it should gain some clearance in that arena.

Robinhood Steve, it may be in a vacuum, but we are still operting in Euclidian Geometry where the square of the hypotenuse equals the sum of the square of the sides.

 

I'm not saying anything about it because my gas tank is on the drivers side, I shifted the axle back over the drivers side with the drop, so I now "hit" the tank skid whereas without the drop I didn't hit it.

I don't operate on that Euclidian Geometry, mine is somewhat skewed and offset. but like I said, I agree with the theory and math of it all. Notice I also said this "maybe it was shifted already stock,".

 

Chris, you're missing the point of my argument completely. My argument is not about rubbing while off roading. My argument is about the axle shift at ride height and I believe it is negligable (although schaefer's number may prove otherwise). Read the last couple sentences of my post again:

 

See that's just it, I think that it IS shifted from stock and people are noticing that after they lift it and think the lift caused it (which it may have). But, schaefers numbers seem to say otherwise and I tend to believe it when he says it changed 1cm.

I can see I'm going to have to buy a 3rd gen and try it for myself (I may be in the market for one soon). I won't bother you guys with this drop bracket again unless I see a newbie asking about a drop bracket for his street queen.

 

Ohhh Steve, you may be abandoning our 2nd Gen Club??? :cry:

 

I don't know, maybe. Something more reliable would be nice. See this thread: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...threadid=20796

 

Hey all,

Spirited discussion here! I'm not sure how much my axle moved to the passenger side, but I def. want to buy someones drop bracket if they have one. Could be it was already off on that side before the lift, but now it's worse, no matter what the measurement. I do go offroading with my truck when at our house in the mountains frequently, so any help on the axle shift is good!

Thanks to everyone for all the input though. I appreciate it.

If anyone has one they are not using, shoot me some details on a sale.

Thanks,
Chris