kaiberg

on friday i noticed axel oil running down the inside of my tire when i hopped in the runner after work...any good advice about replacing the seal??...its freaking cold up here so i think im gonna just get the dealer to do it for me rather than lie on my back in the driveway for a morning...but i wondering about some of the things i found when i "searched" this topic...seemed to be differing opinons about whether bearings need to be replaced at the same time or not...also is it necessary to do brake work even if i get the leak repaired quickly??...anybody have any experience with this...if you got this repair done for you ...about how much did you pay??

thanx...Kai

keisur

it's a good idea because the bearing is only $40 bucks and since you'll more than likely be doing both the inner and outer seals, the bearing will get pressed off anyway. if you are only going to have them replace the inner, then don't worry about it unless there is slop in the bearing. YES, if you crack the brake line, the system (or at least that wheel) needs to be bled, DON'T skip that. anytime the system is cracked, it must be bled.

one other thing, you won't have to lay on your back to replace the seal, just pull the tire, pull the brake line, pull the 4 flange nuts, and pull the axle. pull the old seal out, pop the new seal in, then put the axle back in, torque the flange nuts to 54 ft-lb and connect the brake line and bleed brakes. no laying down, everything can be done sitting on a stool beside the wheel well and reaching in with the tire removed. the inner seal would take me about an hour to do tops. hehe, because I've done mine so many times.

one more thing, if it's leaking out into the drum, then you'll need a rear brake job too since the shoes will more than likely be saturated.

Dealer will rob you on this. I would guess, $100 for the brakes and maybe $150 (maybe $100) for the seal replacement, and it's only a $5 seal!

see these links:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/mainte...wheel_bearing/
https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech...m1_oilseal.htm
http://128.83.80.200/taco/rwb.html

kaiberg

thanx for the response keisur...i knew about bleeding...i was actually refering to any problems with oil getting in the shoes and drums...did you replace brake shoes when youve done yours ?

and how do i know which seal to replace...inner and outer seals...i read the write up in the tech section about the inner replacement...i didnt see anything about outer ?

do you get dealer seals or just generics?

sorry sooo many questions...ive never had to deal with this before
thanx...Kai

keisur

yea, I replaced my shoes unless they weren't saturated. The dealer has a practice of just sanding the shoes down and reinstalling if it's on their waranty coverage. I learned that the hard way and they ended up doing a front and rear brake job with new rotors up front because the backs just didn't even work and I drove a couple thousand solely on the front warping the rotors. If you caught it soon enough they may not be saturated. problem is if they are saturated and you hit the brakes, the gear oil squeezes out and either sticks the shoes or just renders them useless. I'd go ahead and get new shoes while your at it.

I get Genuine Toyota Parts for these kinds of things because in my opinion nothing fits like STOCK stuff. if there is oil in the drum, the oil got past the outer seal so the proper thing to do would be to pull it apart and reassemble with new seals, outer and inner. but I have just used brake parts cleaner to clean all the stuff in the drum and tried to get it all out of the gasket between the oil deflector and the axle hub flange but the cardboard gasket was so saturated it would sling out and get all over the new brakes so I'd end up going back in and pulling it all. supposedly people say that the outer is just a dust seal but since "I" have actually done the work and taken the stuff apart and know what the inside of the outer seal actually looks like, I know that it seals on a seal surface on the outer part of the axle shaft to act as a second barrier for the oil. I can take some pics if you want since I have a spare axle sitting in my garage and about 3 of both inner and outer seals, plus a bearing and a bunch of old retainers and ABS rotor thing. just let me know. It will have to be tomorrow afternoon though since it's so late and I gotta go to work tomorrow. I had to rig up some jigs for my press to press everything off and on.

keisur

I forgot to say. the outer requires a complete disassembly of the axle so that's probably why I can't find any write-ups on it since I am the only one I know that has done the outer. hehe, and I always mean to do a write-up but I get in a hurry or just get lazy and it never gets written. oops.

The write-up for the inner on this site is straight forward and just plainly shows how simple the inner is.

NOTICE I posted another link in my first post that walks through the outer, on a Taco but it's the same as mine, don't know about your '95. should be the same concept as yours.

don't worry about the questions, I don't mind, it's the only way to learn.

kaiberg

hey thanx for all the solid info man...id really love to just take tomorrow off work and do it myself but if i do that i dont earn a couple hundred bucks by working in the effort to save a couple hundred bucks by doing it myself...kinda a lose...lose situation ya know

anyway...its too late to decide tonight thanx again for the help... ill check out the links tomorrow...

Kai

Todd E

When I did my inner seal, it took about an afternoon to do.
I got a replacement from Autozone which was actually a Timken seal.
I don't remember the part number off hand, it was only about $3 or so.
If the Toyota seal isn't much more, just go with that (no question about reliability then).
hope this helps,
Todd

keisur

probably a good idea to let the stealership do it, that way if it leaks again it gets fixed free.

mikedog

Just wait until you got a day off to do the axle job. No use adding to the "coffers" of the stealership when you can do it yourself and maybe learn something in the process. Don't make them any more richer, they're already filthy rich.LOL!

Actually, replacing the axle seals and bearings ain't all that hard to do. It's that darn backing plate that has pressed off to do the outer bearing/seal. I had a heck of a time trying to find a machine shop/garage that would do it for me. $75 dollars to press the backing plates off let alone what they would've charged for the whole axle job plus the brakes. I guess they preferred to make the labor on the WHOLE axle job rather than doing the (piece-meal) press job for me. Schmucks! LOL!

Oh yeah. When you have the seals done, make sure to clean out the breather valve located on top of the axle. After I did the seals on mine, it started to leak again a few months later on the passenger side. I recently cleaned out the breather valve and haven't had any leaks coming from that side anymore. Clean it out real good or just get a new one at the stealer. You'll be glad you did!

keisur

most of use here have extended our breathers so that isn't a problem.

That $75 you spent on the shop pressing the stuff for you you could bought a press from Harbor like I did and do it all yourself. just need a few jigs from home depot and you can do all the pressing yourself. Oh, as for the backing plate, you drill one hole on each side of the arbor press bar (click pic of my press below), bolt the bearing cup to it and press on the end of the axle shaft to separate the bearing, cup and brake backing plate. I could explain it a little better and take a pic of my setup if you wanted me to, so unless you ask I won't go to the trouble.

(See the pic below) It is a PITA getting that inner most retaining ring the right distance from the end of the housing so it lines up on the seal and doesn't bind inside the housing, that is probably why your seal leaked the second time, not the breather. I had that problem until I took some measurements and discovered that I had pressed the inner most retainer too far and it wasn't sealing on the inner seal. took some measurements, pull it back a little and voila, no more leaking.

mikedog

keisur,

The only problem with your assumption is that I DID buy the Harbor Freight press (just like yours) to do my axle plates. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to press them off using the supplied hardware in the box.

It seems as though the shop press, the repair shop used, was much wider between the "girder" part where the press plate meets the adjustable girder section and had all the neccessary arbor plates to do the job. I watched them do it.

Yes sir, I would very much like you to go through the trouble in explaining how you were able to make the HF press work to do the Toyota axle plates. I would certainly appreciate that!

Also, I have NOT replaced the seals a second time. They only leaked on me a second time after doing the seals only once on the pass. side until I cleaned the breather valve. He didn't mention if he extended his breather or not so I didn't assume he did and I included that possibility as well.

-mikedog

Bennito

Pardon me if this is more semantics, but what if i have grease in the drum? This would be my first time working on an axle, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at. Seems that a small amount of grease is coming from the axel tube to the bottom of the drum, then coming in.

The real question is whether this is an O-ring (which I think I can handle) or the press-fit (in which case a shop is doing it).

Thanks for the help and the good thread (search is my friend)

keisur

if it's an oring it will be leaking between the bearing cup flange and the axle housing. if should stay out of the drum if it's the oring. if it's the outer or inner seal, you'll see it in the drum.

hey Mike dog lighten up I wasn't talking down at you or "assuming" anything or looking for an argument.

oh, give me a couple minutes so I can go out and slap some stuff on the press and snap some photos. Also, what's an "axle plate" ? did you notice the hole circled in black in my picture? that's one of the mods to make it work.

keisur

Mikedog, here ya go, I put it in it's own thread in the maintenance section:

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...threadid=22772

mikedog

keisur,

Thanks. I appreciate the detail pics on how you modified the HF press to R&R the Toyota bearing/backing plates. This definitely needs be written up as a tech article on this site.

Backing plate assemblies. Brake backing plate assemblies. Axle plate assemblies. It's basically the same thing. A disc plate assembly between the wheel hub and the axle shaft. I'm sure everyone knows what I mean. If not, then I apologize for any confusion my vague description might have caused anyone. Hey bro, no need to worry about me. I'm light as a feather.lol! I'm here to help and learn as well.

A few questions though.

Would it be possible for you to mockup an axle assembly with the backing plates on them? I having a hard time visualizing where the backing plates are in relation to the bearing cup retainers on the modified HF press setup. I presume they'd be laying right next to wheel hub on the floor while pressing in the bearings. Right? It's been awhile since I had mine apart.

The SST-type flange, nipple and etc you made using DIY Home-Depot parts. Can you elaborate further?

Did you need to make more DIY arbor plates for the axle job? Or, did the supplied arbor plates that came with the HF press suffice?

Thanks again.

-mikedog

keisur

I used the arbor plates that came with my 12-ton press. I'll measure the Home Depot jigs when I get home tonight.

I got rid of the old bearing and the backing plate because I replaced the whole assembly last year to eliminate any further troubleshooting. I can make a piece of cardboard to simulate where it would be but you can look at the pic below and see that is on the outside of the bearing cup. basically this is what you are doing when you bolt the cup to the modified arbor crossmember: Let me know if it's not clear and I'll see what I can do.

keisur

This view may help too:

kaiberg

well heres how it went down...the stealership tried to rape me for $1000
i asked the idiot service advisor to give me a breakdown of labor so i could laugh at him when i went to go reclaim my keys and take it elsewhere...3.5 hours for the inner and outer seals;1 hour to press off bearing;another hour to press on bearing;another 2 hours for shoes and 1 hour to turn drums...8 hours of labor....plus parts came to $650.00 for seals,bearing,and shoes on one side..... oh and then he informs me that while he had it i should really have him do the timing belt cuz it has 120k on it now and they are running a "special" for $350...

needless to say i requested my keys and drove away while cussing out my window

but im working 2 jobs right now...7 days a week... and and dont get a day off until christmas...when ill be in Toronto...so i couldnt really find time to do it myself

my brother recomended a shop to me that did one side seals and bearing and both sides shoes and drums same day for $375.

not too bad i guess...i wouldve liked the experience from doing it myself but maybe next time...hopefully the next time will be a long long time from now

thanx for all the help...Kai

now back to the HF press discussion

keisur

I told you they'd rape you on the price. haha, but I didn't think it would be that much, wow! the whole job only takes me about 3 hours per side to do. don't get me started on what my real opinion of stealerships is, I might get a tongue lashing like in one particular previous thread by a toyota tech. haha.

transalper

Damn, that's overkill. Why not just replace the inner seal on the leaking side and call it a day? That is a easy 1-hour job and costs a total of $12 or whatever the seal is going for. New shoes, maybe. And a bit of brake fluid. Just follow Keiser's directions (his first response) and you're set.

If that doesn't work, then you can try and tackle the outer seal and bearings.