Texas_Ace

Ok that make s a bit more sense. I was not aware that there were 2 differnt buttons there.

But about the full-time 4WD. That is what toyota called the 4x4 on my truck. with just the 4wd button pressed they called it full-time 4WD as you could drive it on road. AWD is the type that is on all the time if i remember right. Full-tim can be used just that, full-time if wanted.

As i have said, i know 4wd drive just about backwards it is how toyota uses it on models other than mine that i don't know.

Galen

Ha... well, for a little car? Yeah. That's a challenge. I'm pretty sure that many of the Land Rover courses are the same design-wise so it would be interesting. Going up in rear wheel drive like that, I really do not think that would be possible, no.

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

Oh I see, you believe Godzilla when he says it, but not me...and I even have this center diff/VSC off button! haha j/k. It's all good.

Okay, let me try my hand at this one...You are correct, with just the 4wd button depressed, you could drive it on road. You could leave it engaged all the time, but it is still selectable. Meaning you still have to engage it. A vehicle that has a true full time 4wd is one that the 4wd is always engaged regardless if you select it or not. That's why we refer to ours as part time 4wd, b/c you manually have to select it.

AWD is a different animal usually found on many luxury cars. I'll be the first to admit I do not know that much about AWD setups, but the 4WD 4HI on my previous '86 4Runner would not allow the truck to go fast at all. I had to manually move the shifter into position too, unlike the push button style I have now. Yes it could be driven on the street if you had to, but I never did. It was a more of a true 4WD 4HI meant for rough surfaces. I believe we tend to refer to the 4WD setup on the newer 3rd gens w/ the push button on the shifter as AWD, b/c the button can be depressed on the fly (under 60mph) and the vehicle can even be driven on the street w/o really any noticeable
difference that the vehicle is actually in 4WD 4HI compared to driving the same vehicle in 2WD. The vehicle still has pretty much the same road manners in either mode.

To me, the 4WD 4HI found on my current 4Runner is a "watered-down" version compared to the same 4WD system found on my '86. I tend to refer to this push button style as AWD b/c the road manners of the vehicle are not that noticeable when it's engaged. Has more of a 2wd feel to it.


If anyone else can explain this better, please do.

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

Okay, what Godzilla said about the different shifters makes sense now. I went back and looked at the pictures RoySharif posted (thanks Roy that helps clear up this some more) of his 4wd shifter on the 2pg of this thread.

Here's 2 pics I took of mine to show the differences:








Okay, I think we are all starting to get on the same page here

KZN185W

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the pics. It gave me newer insight into North Am 4Runners.

I've always thought that all models with multi-mode 4WD had the U-shaped diagram on the transfer lever where you get to choose H2, H4, H4L (center diff locked), N, and L4L (center diff locked).

Since there's a separate CDL switch on the dash what is the 4WD button on the transfer lever for?

Thanks.

offroad4x4yota

Sounds just like a sales man to me. (At least the ones I have encountered)

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

With the truck in standard 2wd mode, the transfer lever should be in the "H" postion...which in turn, the vehicle is in 2H. To activate 4H, you must depress the button on the side of the shifter. This can be done at speeds under 60mph. Once this button is depressed, the vehicle is now in 4H. There is no 4HL, so even the 4H that we have feels more like a "watered-down" version of 4H, thus the reason we refer to it as AWD.

Edit: Oh and to get to 4L, the 4wd button is to stay activated. You do not deactivate it to shift the transfer lever to 4L.

To get to 4L, you must park the vehicle and shift the transmission to Netural. Then you can shift the transfer lever to "N" and then on to "L4", thus giving you low range. To get even more traction, you can depress the button on the dash to disable VSC and lock the center diff.

Hope that helps

Texas_Ace

This was my problem too. I though they all had my setup which is the u selector...


This just awnsered more than you know. Now i see why we have been butting heads! That is a setup that is on your i guess. Where mine is the "U" style. Like was said above it has the H4/2 at the top of the left side (i will try to get some pics sometime) where you use the button to pick 2WD or 4WD but don't move the lever. Then you can move it down one place and it goes into H4L (4WD hi locked center) then you can move it to the right and into Neutral. Then it is up to L4L (Low, 4WD Center locked).


I can look around the web to find something that will settle this but i am %99 sure i am "right" (although we are almost in agreement).

But here is a run down of the different 4WD systems:

First part-time (PT from now on) PT only be used PT due to it having a locked center diff that will bind on road. This is better for offloading but will ruin quick on a hard surface. thus can only be used "Part-time"

Full-Time 4WD (now FT): FT can be used both on and off road fine as it has an unlocked center diff. Now a lot of truck/cars can't lock the center so we are lucky we can in the yotas. they just have it on full-time with a selector for 2WD for better gas mileage.

All-Wheel drive: AWD is very close to Full-time, they are actually inter-used sometimes. generally AWD can't be disengaged can never have the center locked and is junk for off-roading as all the power (without help from traction control systems) will go to 1 tire if it will slip. But most of these cars come with Traction control so they actually do pretty good. Subaru uses AWD in there cars.

Basically the different between full-time and AWD from what I can remember is that full-time is 2WD by default that can use 4WD all the time if wanted. Where AWD is 4WD be default and usually can?t go 2WD.

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

I knew we were getting close to all being on the same page . (I realize I did not know unit recently you all w/ the push button transfer lever also had the U style shifter). I thought all shifters w/ the push button were like mine.

And yes the setup I have is what all '01-'02 4Runners have. No "U" selector on these 2 years.




I think we are in agreement. I know I refer to (and so do others) the 4H in the 01-02 4Runners as AWD. To be correct, it's not really AWD, but to so many of us that have these year 4Runners, it just feels, and I'll say it again, like a watered-down version of a true 4H, thus we refer to it as AWD...even though it's not really.



Oh and I know I have been saying that you can select to lock the center diff in 4L, but you can also lock it in 4H too in the 01-02 4Runners. Did not want you all to think you could only lock the center diff in 4L.

Texas_Ace

LOL, see we were both to narrow minded to think that there might be a differnt styl 4WD selector on the other one truck!

Well we got that seteled.


Yep, i think we finally figured out that we were really thinking the same basic thing the whole time. Toyotas 4WD systems are still new to me so i just have to go with my knolage on 4WD in general.

Godzilla

haha, l love watching the learning. good job on the teamwork. For me i love my 99 4wd system. I have my 2WD for the day to day roads. On intermixed days like a bunch of snow on one street and none on the other depending on the plow i can run AWD(4H) all day long. Or even on winding roads with many hills I notice a huge difference in handling from 2WD to AWD(4H). Also I can drive up to 100km/h in this mode. When i hit the trails I have the 4Hlow and life is easy. When it goes from bad to worse i have 4Low and of course the sweetness of the rear locker. Man i love this f-in truck

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

Wahoo!

You're right, we were thinking across the same line, just different pages

No need to keep this thread alive over this debate anymore. Glad we got it covered though...sounds like we both learned something.



I have to agree, in my book the '99-'00 has to be the best 4wd system offered from toyota (in addition to the factory e-locker option) bar none.

az984Runner

Then why call it AWD? It confuses everyone and Toyota doesn't even advertise AWD for your make or use it as a 'catch phrase'. If it was AWD they would put stickers on your ride in big letters AWD

It's called 4H. Call it what it is not what it feels like.

That's the problem with the world today. I have to think about how others feel before I do or say anthing instead of just calling it like it is.

Godzilla

yes at the end of the day it still is 4H and 4Hlow and not AWD

AWD is usually reserved for vehicles that have full time 4wd and cannot lock the centre differential, 4wd vehicles are those that are in the 2wd mode and can be put into 4x4, being driven by the 4 wheels and centre locked., also you have the full time 4wd's that are always 4x4 with centre unlocked and then you lock them when needed. so really in the case of my 99 it is a 4wd vehicle with full time 4wd capabilites.
what really separates an awd from a 4wd is the availability of 4Lo. Many manufacturers have different systems nowadays which really blends alot of the systems together making the definitions more vague as technology in the drivetrain increases

Rock Slide

iTrader: (1)

You are completely right.

From this day forth, I solemnly swear to refrain from referring to 4H on my 4Runner as AWD. It is 4H and should therefore be called that. It is what it is and not what I "feel" like it is.

Godzilla

yes it is a huge problem in the world today.
the vehicle (99 limited) has
-2wd
-H4 full time 4wd (4wd no centre locked)
-H4L 4wd (centre locked)
-4low


and when in "full-time" 4wd mode is pretty much the same thing as AWD, being a system powering the 4 wheels with no locked centre differential, the difference lying in the further, or lack of capabilities (4lo, locked centre) I too agree that the world is going to hell.

Godzilla

The other problem is when people piss about something yet do it themselves. I see your sig is "98 4Runner Limited 4x4 " 4X4??? I thought all the 4Runners are labelled 4WD? am i wrong? 4X4 means a vehicle with 4 wheels powered by 4 wheels...which is the same a AWD or 4WD..hmmm

Greg_Canada

Atleast someone gets it.
and there is no difference between H4 full time 4wd and AWD... it's the SAME THING.
FJ80's are AWD, you can lock or unlock all diffs (front centre rear), and is selectable between low and high range.

Oh, and the ONLY difference between our 4wd in teh 99's, and teh 4wd in the first gen 4runners, is that we can pick Full time 4wd, aka AWD.... its just an add on to the original t-case.... i still dont know why all lots of you guys are getting worked up over the AWD thing, no one ever said full-time AWD, just that AWD is selectable, because in my books, 4Hi is centre-diff locked....

az984Runner

Can you go 140MPH in your so called AWD aka 4Hi? More importantly can you go highway speeds?
I had a 2002 Subaru Ipreza WRX with AWD (It has the stickers to prove it) and I could go 140MPH without worrying about things binding.

az984Runner

Just checked and there are no 4WD emblems anywhere on mine. When I drive my 4Runner it feels like a 4x4 so I call it a 4x4.

All I'm saying is that three pages of arguing occured over wether or not you have AWD or not and it has nothing to do with the original post.

On Topic:
Any luck with get some pictures of the course yet?