SchooBaka

I would think that if you had no check engine light, the car would not start at all. Could be that the bulb is burned out in your case, which shouldnt cause extended cranking.

ScottyC

iTrader: (1)

I had the identical issue with my 3.0L. I replaced every sensor I could. Finally got my hands on an ignitor and it fixed everything. Hasn't done it since. Not even once in 18 months.

LifeOnABoard

The only other culprit in this case that I can see right now is the Ignition Switch is broken, and not switching power to the ECM until it is in the CRANK position. Who knows, maybe the previous owner was one of those people who had 5 lbs worth of keys dangling off the switch.

Lets see, I've had VW's with inherently bad ignition switches, and Hondas with inherently bad Main EFI relays. It's like I could toss a coin with this one. I guess I won't know until I trouble-shoot the wiring in the dash. I'll keep this thread updated.

rbh261

I ruled out ignition switch with my remote start system. It doesn't depend on switch function. I'm pretty sure I'm looking at an ignitor issue. At least I hope so.

LifeOnABoard

Well, in regards to your funky spark issue. On wasted spark systems, even though 2 plugs will receive juice at the same time, the majority of the voltage will be sent to the plug that is under compression. I have installed the Ford EDIS system on my VW and have read a few patents concerning their wasted spark. But I can't guarantee it would be the same on our trucks, though I would bet that this fundamental behavior is the same.

rbh261

Yep, I work in a Ford service dept. So, I'm pretty familiar with the waste spark systems, but this thing is acting pretty stupid.

rbh261

I installed another ignitor today. Didn't fix anything. Now I'm truly lost. Any suggestions?

LifeOnABoard

The next thing I would check is the computer.

daviscb1

Anyone find a solution to this. I have the same symptoms and have tried most of the things mentioned.

LifeOnABoard

Has anyone checked their fuel pressure yet? I have yet to clean my MAF or idle valve but after those items that's the first thing I would check.

atistang

you might try searching for some TSB's

there is one for 03-04 taco's with the 3.4 that is for extended cranking

http://www.customtacos.com/tech/file...anking_tsb.pdf


doesn't say anything about 4runners but they might have something similar

LifeOnABoard

I read about the TSB but never found the actual procedure. I will check this weekend to see if the same thing may apply to our generation. Thanks.

LifeOnABoard

After reading through the TSB, the only evident change is to relocate the engine ground. I'm guessing that the ground gets dirty from oil filter changes. You could just clean up the ground and see if that improves the problem. It also recommends insuring that the ground wire doesn't wrap around the power wire at all (from the battery to the starter). Unless there is an internal change to the wire harness I think cleaning the ground would suffice.

daviscb1

My problem with the same symptoms was the starter. One contact was worn and tilted. In addition the mag wires were very brittle. The starter was turning the engine over every time but it was going slower than it is supposed to. Hard to notice when it slowly degrades but easy to tell that the new starter turns the moter over much quicker. So my advice is if your toyota has over 120,000 miles and your having starting issues, it just might be the starter.

LifeOnABoard

I was able to check out the wiring harness on my 01 4Runner today and it is definitely the same as the one pictured on the TSB above. I did not find the ground point below the oil filter to be particularly dirty or have a lack of contact. It was all metal to metal and tight. Cleaning it did not produce any change. I did do a resistance check on the ground wires to the power wires on this harness and found just 69k ohms of resistance. This is too low IMO. I try to achieve more than 300k ohms between the power and ground terminals in my cars. Any less tells me there is a leaky switch or thin insulation. I bet that if someone cross checked the part numbers (of the harness) for both generations, they would be the same. It looks like the hardest part about the swap would be the connections at the starter. I guess that the implications of a leaky harness would be not having enough current at the relay panel to power everything.

I think my next step will be to purchase that fuel pressure test kit.

LifeOnABoard

So I got a price from the dealer for a new harness.....$372! That's not going to happen soon. I'll rebuild mine before I try that.

I also looked at the parts diagrams for the 01 & 03. That TSB seems to apply to the earlier generation as the 03 diagram was much different.

LifeOnABoard

My VW is dead at my condo so I FINALLY put the truck in the garage and made an adapter to check the fuel pressure. Turns out that the pump isn't priming the rail when the key is turned to the 'on' position. When I crank it over it will keep spinning until the pressure is up to 45 psi (3 bar). I should have done this a year ago when I bought the truck. doh!

Any how, my check engine light does come on with the key in 'on'. So I know that the EFI relay works. I remember looking at some schematics in the pdf files and seeing another relay in the circuit. I'm going to look harder at that later and see if I can get a part number/price. I know the EFI relay is OK because I took it apart and it doesn't have an internal timer or anything. It's pretty basic.

A contributing factor to the hard start is that because the rail isn't primed to 45 psi, the priming pulsewidth applied to the injectors isn't as effective as it should be. This pulsewidth is applied to clear the injectors of air.

LifeOnABoard

edit: The check engine light being on does not guarantee that the EFI relay is good or receiving power. It only means that power is being sent to the ECU, the fuel pump relays are on a seperate line coming out of the switch.

So basically this can also be a ig. switch problem.

Zinek

You have mentioned earlier that if you tap or lightly open the throttle ,it starts. Does it do that all the time???? Hows the fuel pressure holding during that startup is there any pressure when you first try to start it ?? maybe fuel pump check valve leaking and bleading the fuel rail back to tank ???? Just a thought..

LifeOnABoard

Well I'm not the one who has to crack the throttle to start....I think the original poster gave up and sold his truck, haha.

I don't think the check valve is leaking, compared to other cars, it drops pressure normally. This morning it was at 10 psi, which is very typical.

The problem is that the rail doesn't get pressurized until I crank the engine. But further review of the schematics show that the "Circuit Opening Relay" doesn't close (power the fuel pump) until the key is in the "start" position. So maybe this is normal for Toyota?

If this is normal behavior then the only culprit could be the pump is slow to pressurize. I seem to remember pressure being instantaneous on other cars. This one slowly creeps to pressure over 6 - 8 cranks of the starter.