midiwall

ESC1 babble...

So, here's the babble sheet on the ESC1:
http://splitsec.com/products/esc1/esc1ds.htm

How do you tune using an SMT with this inline? Do you end up with more "columns" to tune with other than just setting up the rightmost to be "WOT".

I guess you end up looking at the tables in a different way, right? It becomes more about "the area where boost comes on" (and thus open loop starts) rather than basing life on the linear deflection of the MAF or TPS.

Hmmm... here's an interesting kicker... So, the analog deflection input of the SMT is rated 0-5v. The output of an O2 sensor peaks at 1.1v. What would happen if you boosted the O2 sensor output and used that to feed the SMT? It would look nutty on-screen, since the graph is setup to be a linear relationship between RPM and the analog input, but in theory, you'd have direct control over fuel mixture based on what the O2 sensor sees.

You'd probably have better luck trying this with a wideband though... you wouldn't have to fight the swing. Maybe my LM-1 can finally be more useful!


Ya' know... more and more all this hacking and faking just makes me want to drop a MegaSquirt in here...
http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/

Weasy2k

You can already control the sensor output using the lambda mode but then you can modify open loop.

ANd yes the ecu uses a number of things but the number one thing is TPS.
Im going to study a bit more on this ESC and see what it does to switch over.

Ive been driving with the smt6 on for 50k already and its running very well so im gonna stick with it. My mr2 is going to see a standalone right away because of the fact i want 7500rpm from this beast

SLC97SR5

Midiwall,
This may be a shameless hi-jack so just point me in the right direction if it is. I'm Naturally Aspirated with a K&N FIPK and the ECT mod(thanks Dr. Zchivago!) I don't notice a difference when I pull the EFI fuse but when I pull the negative terminal for 10 minutes...watch out. It sounds funny, but my truck really moves after the reset. Is this because it's in open loop? How can I keep this power AND my stereo presets? Anything else the N/A guys can do for more HP/Torque?
Thanks and sorry!

Weasy2k

Thts interesting SLC97SR5, it could be bnecuase the ecu is adding more fuel when it is unsure of whats going on yet...

Also Midiwall JUST for the you and the fact of research i will test your thoery....on the dyno Im going to do my cam run next week and will pull the negative terminal to reset the ECU after my first 2 runs are done.

midiwall

Ehh, I've done worser hijacking.

Hmmm.. How long do you pull the EFI fuse for? Maybe it's different on the 97's, but I don't think so. (though Jamie (mtl_) and I have been on opposite sides of the length of time required for a while )

Nah, open loop has nothing to do with what you're thinking about. Open loop is a state of being where the ECU feels that it doesn't need to provide fuel corrections anymore, since there's so much air coming in, it just starts dumping. (though that's over-simplified)

Someone else with a 97+ should confirm that pulling the EFI fuse will reset the ECU.

Are you sure you're pulling the right fuse? On my 96, it's in the box under the hood on the driver's side, on the left side of the box (as you face it from the front), the 3rd up from the bottom ("bottom" being towards the front of the truck). It should be labeled on top fo the box.

Not really.. Power in this engine comes from throwing more air at it (S/C). If you throw fuel at without air, it'll just run rich and bog down. Headers don't help for the $$$ on N/A since you're not doing anything to get more air in. You can look into a freeflow cat and a nice cat-back system, that can buy you some power (10-15hpish). Johnny's cam may help, we'll have to wait an see how the dyno run looks.

In short, the best thing to do for power on the 3.4L is to save your pennies for a S/C. There's nothing like it.



Ahh... you're so swell! Thanks Johnny!

Though, with all the work you've done on your rig lately, how long has it been since the ECU has been reset? For example, did you pull power when you put the cams in? And then remember, part of my theory here is that the ECU is negating the tuning that's been done on a piggyback. So, since you've already said that your SMT ain't really tuned for the cams, then I dunno what'll show on the dyno. But, it's more data than we have now!

Weasy2k

Midiwall,

I have already retuned the taco a bit (although its hard to with this rainy weather...no traction) but enough so that everything feels alot better. I alwasy remove the battery when doing work like removing 1/2 the components so yea its all done. I have since put 750km on the new cams to make sure things are working well. I got some minro ticking becuase i dindt get the clearences perfect, i will do that once the mr2 is on the road and wont need the tacoma as much.
SO i will have the first 2 runs with the ecu as is and the last runs will be with a ecu reset.

midiwall

I simply can't wait! KICKIN'!

(and dood... call me "Mark"! We're so past the aliases now! )

midiwall

wow... there are no less than 3 active threads on the S/C.

head's up folks, there's similar information being shared in all of them....

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/all-those-who-supercharged-77119/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/those-considering-s-c-here-some-thoughts-71987/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77040

SLC97SR5

midiwall,
Yes, I'm pulling the correct fuse. It's a little 15A spade. I've pulled it out for a couple minutes to a half hour. Strange that it doesn't act like the negative terminal. I've even cranked it over with the fuse out.

Weasy2k

Heheh alright man

I play to head to dyno either tommorw afternoon or next tuesday. Its hard to find that chance when you have so much going on!

Im also going to find a final price quote from the cam grinder and from there establish a final product resell, right now looks like a price drop is coming

midiwall

Okay... more ESC1 ponderings.

This thing only sits in the path of the O2 sensor, right? And yet it will force the ECU into open loop.

That bothers me... I gotta' bunch of questions, and it's stopping me from feeling good about spending $200 on a black box.

We know that pushing the sensor voltage too high or too low will throw a CEL. And we know this box doesn't. So what does this box do? I'm thinking that it garbages up the signal such that the ECU can't figure out what's going on, so it gives up and switches to open loop. If that's true, then you can build what the audio industry knows as a "white noise generator" for about $5, including a case. It's easily trimmed to keep things within 0.2v-1.1v.


For _us_ (that being the people on this thread and generally geeky tuning types), given that we're running piggybacks, then why do we EVER want the ECU in closed loop?


If you find out that you really do want to only run open loop in boost, then the switchover to the noise generator doesn't have to be fancy-map-driven-computer-interfaced-cool. This is a set-it and forget-it thing, right? Okay, add $10 for a pressure sensor.


Hey Johnny... do you have an o'scope? I'd love to know what the ESC1 does to the output signal.

Hmmm... I have noise generators... I may just try this. The worst that can happen is that I'll throw a code, which is easily cleared. I wish the weather was better (it's cold and rain).

mt_goat

Damn Mark how much coffee you been drinking lately? I'll trade you some dry, warm, dust bowl, nothing is going to rust, can't stop a wildfire weather for your rain.

midiwall

you should see me when I DO drink coffee!

Weasy2k

Lol
Mark,
Yes i have one but its with a customer right now as he needed it to find the problem with his SMT6 install. I should be getting it back soon and will see what happens. I am definatly going to figure it out, you dont even need a pressure sensor. If your smt6 is attached to the MAF for load sensing then i would just use that to switch over.

You want to be in closed loop during light throttle as its easy for the ecu to keep it at a healthy rate vs you trying to tune for temp changes and everyything

The SMT7 can take over open loop its pritty cool, you just punch in the AFR you want, and off it goes.

midiwall

Oh yeah... I knew that!


Hmm, right... I guess I was thinking in terms of coming up with something for more global use. A $30 solution versus a $200 solution for non-SMT people. (I could be up on eBay along side of the $20 resistors!)


Oh that! Dern it all.


So... wait. Are you saying that I could ditch the SMT5 I'm running now, move to a SMT7 and NOT have to deal with an ESC1?
(can you tell I'm trying REALLY hard not to send any money to SplitSecond? )

midiwall

Hi John... A thought popped into my head about this.

If you're up for it, I wanna try tripping the CEL light, and then seeing if that fuse will clear it when you pull it. Are ya' game? (I'd bet you know this, but if this doesn't work you can clear the CEL by pulling one of the battery terminals)

The easiest way I can think of to throw a CEL is to pull the connector on the MAF and try starting the engine. Give it a couple of cranks, then go back, put the connector back on and start it up. The CEL should be on (the code would be a P0100, plus one or two more).

So now pull that EFI fuse for a bit, and see if it clears the CEL.

Weasy2k

If i can recall there is 2 fuses that need to be pulled to stop the ecu from remeber shiz...there is a ECU A and ECU B fuse.

I gotta check it out, i could be thinking in the mr2....

I can set tons of CEL's easily, flick a switch and disable the Electronic Control to the Tranny and lots of CEL's pop up. (dyno mode i call it)

And to answer your earlier questions....
The SMT6 itself WILL be able to replicate the ESC1 as well using the setpoint out, once i figure it out!

The SMT7 can control OPEN and CLOSED loops all togheter as well as removing your maf sensor and replacing it with a MAP sensor.

Weasy2k

Hey Mark sorry i didnt update you furthur...

The dyno run showed no difference before or after reset....
Open loop is uneffected.

But i did remove my ESC1 and yes the truck is running like ASS because of the s/c dumping in air yet the ecu still wants 14.7...so now i drive either vac to 1 psi or full throttle

I got the s/c to finally run at 9psi without urd's pulley....my own little thing I kinda figured out (who knwos if its been done before)..i will take pics..
I dont want ot give it out just yet because I want to make sure it wont mess with the belt (throw it off the teeth)

midiwall

Yeah, open loop shouldn't be affected.

As for close loop, I'm VERY clearly seeing a difference after 1000-1500 miles. It's like night & day. In fact, one of the "things on the list" is that I'll be installing a push button for ECU RESET in my console. I'll just be getting in the habit of hitting the button before starting the truck!


PUT IT BACK!


hmmm... Sounds like you need a US based test site.

jonykarate

Does anyone running the 7th + AIC (other than TRDOLMAN) experience this? Or does this not apply to them because of software?