HenrySacto

Hi all,

I really need you guy’s suggestions and opinion, please help!!

I have a 2001 Toyota 4Runner 4WD.

A few months ago I replaced the pads for the front brake myself. That was my first time trying it…afterward the brake didn’t work the way it was…it was so much deeper than the original even with the new pads and I had to step on and released a few times to get good brake. I tried bleeding it a few more times with assistance from a friend…still we could not get the brake to work properly. So I finally decided to take it to Les Schwab Tire Centers to have the brake checked and bled…they charged me $45. It seems to work fine at first, but a few days later the same problem occurred again. I took it back to Les Schwab and have them checked again…the technician spent an hour and haft and he could not find anything wrong with it. He suggested that I take it to the dealer to have it diagnose. I didn’t have time to take it to the dealer right away so I drove a few more months. Well, Just a few days ago, the brake stopped working completely…the paddle goes all the way in and no brake at all. So I drove with the hand brake to Brake Master. The technician still could not find anything wrong even the brake does not work at all after spending 2 hours physically looking at every part of the brake. He suspected that it must be the Master Cylinder and told me to take it to the dealer. I finally took it to dealer and they said the Master Cylinder stopped functioning. They quoted $2500 for parts and labor to replace ABS/VSC master cylinder system. Is it really going to cost me $2500 to fix this problem? I'm thinking about taking it somewhere else to have it fixed.

Any information or suggestion would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Henry

04 Rocko Taco

The stealer, er, um, I mean Dealer, is always the MOST expsensive way to do anything, sometimes though there is something to be said for dealership, factory toyota work, but sometimes not. Any shop could replace that MC. Shouldn't cost you quite that much, I wouldn't imagine, I would definitely shop around a bit, and have it TOWED wherever you decide, driving with the handbrake is just not smart...Good luck! Keep us posted.

HenrySacto

Do you have any idea where I can get/order the part from? I'm sure other shop can replace it.

Thanks,
Henry

Bighead

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214074

They have the best online prices I have been able to find.

04 Rocko Taco

look on your truck, and see if you can see who makes that OEM Master Cylinder, I dont know if it is strictly a Toyota part, or if it is NGK or something like that, like mercedes, for instance, all of thier OEM parts are made by Bosch. If you see who makes it, any shop can order it, and most shops can even order a brand new Toyota one, but they would more than likely be ordering it from a dealer, so you'd get even more markup that way. Check your local auto parts store, tell them you need a MC for your Runner, and see what they have, chances are no OEM identical's, but worth a shot, if no other luck, see how much the dealer charges for just the parts, not the labor. Thats not a bad idea anyway, so even if you get another shop to order it, you'll know how much the dealer would have charged so your protecting yourself from getting ripped off.

emptypockets

Sorry to hear about your brake problems. I've had really good luck with www.toyotapartssales.com on Toyota factory parts. Strap22 is a YT member and I can't say enough good things about their service!

drguitarum2005

I had the same problem on my old Isuzu Rodeo. The master cylinder had a hole in it so fluid was just passing the diaphram. I would press to the floor and the brakes would not engage. I had to drive it with the ebrake to a local brakes place. I don't remember the cost but it sure wasnt $2500 to replace the mc!

jimbob

You have to remember that the 01 & 02 runners have the ATRAC /VSC and ABS which is controlled by the brake system --- they don't have a traditional brake master cylinder --- it is a high pressure nitrogen charged canister instead of a vacuum operated MC. I assume that the reason is so that there is always a source/reserve of high pressure to operate the systems. That is why you hear a pump run every so often when using the brakes - it is replentishing the fluid to the canister (so I have deduced !?!). If you look at all the wires and tubing coming out of the unit, you can see how this would be a VERY expensive unit. The warning labels on the side as to high N2 pressure are the first clue.

I've wanted to get a FSM to figure out how it really works (among other reasons).

I'm surprised this topic hasn't come up more on the forum - as to the pros/cons and overall performace of this system.

HenrySacto

I just got back from consulting with a tech at Les Schwab Tire Centers. He told me to get the car out of the dealer and bring it to him...they will inspect the MC and fix it for a lot less. Since Les Schwab Tire Centers is right around the dealer, I will drive to Les Schwab Tire Centers with ebrake and see what they can do.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Henry

emptypockets

Definitely shop around for a better price! For me, the stealership is usually the last option because of the high prices, although the service is usually pretty good. I've done plenty of brakes before, but never messed with the MC, and this Yota unit sounds pretty tricky. Another place I've found to have decent prices on parts is www.rockauto.com although I have no idea if they carry or can get the MC. Good Luck!

04 Rocko Taco

Les Schwab sounds better than the stealer.

instigator

wasnt it les schwab that told you that they couldnt find anything wrong with it and then directed you to the dealership? i sure as hell wouldnt take it back to them. i mean they send you to get the diagnosis done at the dealership then they want to reap the rewards of your parts changing. i would get a friend thats mechanically inclined to do this for you, at least by this way you might be get a reach around

User 051420

FWIW, I only paid $350 to have my master cylinder replaced on my 97 4Runner. Granted, it didn't have VSC..but the MC shouldn't be too much more expensive.

HenrySacto

I took it back to Les Schwab, because one of the technicians said that they could fix it for a lot less so I guess I gave it a shot. Anyway, I just got a call from them today (Les Schwab)...they said that they could not fix it. They don't have the special tools to diagnose it…with the ABS VSC system they would not know for sure if replacing MC will resolve the problem. Again, the guy said it would be best to have it fixed by the dealer.

Guys,

Is it that complicated that Les Schwab could not fix such a problem? Is the dealer the only place that I can get this resolved? I really don’t have $2500…

Please help!!

Thanks,
Henry

Strap22

That unit is a Dealer only only at this time. If that is the problem I would have Les install it. He should be cheaper. The Dealer can do goodwill assistance but in order for that happen you have to be a good customer. When you service your vehicle there and spend money with them they are more likely to want to participate. How many miles do you have on it? Here is a link to the unit you need.
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214074

HenrySacto

Is the link you provided suppose to take me to the site with the part number? I clicked on the link and it does not show the part.

Thanks,
Henry

slow_key

I just realised how happy I am with my old fashion power brakes (non-abs)

GSGALLANT

Yeah, the whole hydraulic brake booster assembly off of 2001 & 2002 4Runners is expensive, but although it looks like it belongs in a space shuttle, you have to remember that the booster assembly is made out of individual components, many which could be causing your problem. You could have a bad booster pump or motor, a bad accumulator, a bad pressure switch, or bad seal in the MC itself.

The dealer's position seems to be to replace the whole assembly, which is disappointing. It is not overly time consuming to check some of these components. However, since this braking system doesn't appear on too many of their vehicles, it might seem a bit foreign to them as well (no excuse, though... they should have somebody there that can troubleshoot it.)

That being said, I'm not sure what they offer for individual components in the parts department... maybe they only sell the whole booster assembly (that wouldn't be unlike Toyota.) If that's the case, you might get lucky and score some parts in a junkyard?

After re-reading your post, I saw that you said you have no brakes at all, and the pedal just sinks to the floor. That would lead me to believe that one of the seals in the master cylinder itself is gone. When you bled your brakes the first time after changing your pads, did you do it using the brake pedal pump method? Did you place a block of wood or something behind the pedal when you did this to prevent you from pushing the pedal down lower than it normally goes? If not, that is a classic way to destroy MC seals, so that may be your problem. It is for that reason that I built this to bleed my brakes.

Even with your key in the "off" position (i.e. brake booster pump not operating, and no pressure left in the accumulator, you should still have a few hundred psi of pressure in your front brakes when you push the pedal down with medium force (just generated in your master cylinder). If it is just a defective seal in the MC, you should be able to rebuild it.

Good luck. Don't pay $2500 to fix this.

Strap22

47050-35010 is the part # for the whole assembly. Just plug this # in the link I sent and you can see the price. You can buy components of it seperately. Just depends what you need. You may find one in a junk yard. It's worth a try. They may not know how much that unit is and you may get a great deal. If nothing else you save about $500.00 thru my site on the part alone. Let me know if I can help.

HenrySacto

GSGALLANT,

I really appreciate your input and suggestion. You’ve provided me so much more information than what I’ve gotten from Les Schwab, Brake Master and Toyota Dealer. You are 100% correct. I feel that the dealer just want to replace whole assembly and charge me $2500.

I hope you are correct again that it could be one of the seals in the master cylinder. Yeah, I used brake pedal pump method and didn’t place a block of wood behind the pedal. I think we did push the pedal down lower than it normally goes. I really hope that it is just one small part that we need to replace to get his fixed.

Again, thanks!!

Henry