ManyMods

Hi Guys ...
I just got back from another off-Island road trip and I want to post my findings. Milan and I have been staying in touch off-list, so he knows what I am going through. First of all, the TRD SC installation instructions DO NOT included using the one-way check valve. The TRD manual states in bold print, SKIP THIS STEP FOR 2001 AND NEWER 4RUNNER. The pre-2001 instruction reads:

"Cut the hose leading to the IAC valve connector at the location shown, and insert the kit's one-way into the straight part of the hose. The black end of the valve is closest to the throttle body."

The above is on page 11 and refers to figure 23 as well as the line diagram on page 23.

None of this insures that TRD knows what the heck they are talking about.

I have been talking to Magnuson because I have no faith in what TRD knows or in their support. Magnuson listened to my description of the so-called popping sound I was getting under high speed / high-rpm WOT. The tech rep I spoke to (Kevin Gunn) conferred with his R&D department and came back to me saying that I was getting a violent detonation condition.

Their first suggestion was to install a 5# pulley, but I was not too happy with that idea, although they said that it might not hurt performance as much as I might expect it would. In any event, I didn't feel comfortable with the answers I was given (thank you Milan), so I called them back and spoke to a "real" engineer, Kevin MacMillan. I explained again that I was getting a popping ... coughing ... kac-kac sound and was concerned about the detonation diagnosis because I did not believe it was detonation. He agreed and said that detonation would sound like breaking champagne glasses. (Detonation also can sound like marbles rolling around in a coffee can.) The new diagnosis was, the manifold pressure under the high speed / high-rpm WOT incidence was blowing out the spark. BLOWING OUT THE SPARK !!!!

SIDEBAR: I had never heard of that before, not being familiar with SC’s, so I called a friend who knows and he said it was absolutely possible with OE gapped plugs. He said that it is the first rule of thumb to regap the plugs when using a blower.

Kevin and I discussed the fact that I had installed one-step colder plugs gapped at the preset NGK gap --- that I assumed was .044. He said they should be gapped to .032. I argued that point by telling him NGK said their dual ground strap design plugs were precision factory set and should not be regapped for fear of inaccuracy.

SIDEBAR: I took NGK’s information on faith (fool that I am) and then thought I really should try to regap the plugs because I have been gapping plugs for years and know what I am doing. I checked the gaps and found that they were far from precision gapped and the measurements were all over the board. The BKR6EK plugs are gapped at about .035 to .037, so they are narrower right out of the box. The BKR5EKB plugs are suppose to be gapped at .042 but you can’t even get a .040 wire in the gap in some cases.

I regapped the colder plugs down to .032 and reinstalled them, torquing them to 14#. I did not install the 5# pulley. What I found was that I no longer had the popping sound but occasionally heard a sound that was reminiscent but very faint. The driveability, vacuum and gas mileage suffered significantly from just this adjustment. The acceleration is not smooth throughout the rpm range with the colder plugs gapped to .032.
I am going to pull the plugs today and re-install the stock plugs gapped down to .032 because I have a hunch !!! Kevin did say that I should not have to switch to colder plugs to get the engine to run properly. I am still not installing the 5# pulley.

SIDEBAR: Gapping plugs is very easy BUT, there is a certain degree of finesse to it, so if you have not been taught how to do it get a good mechanic to teach you the “feel” you need to get for an accurate gap. There should be the “slightest” degree of friction (drag) when you move the wire gauge between the ground strap and the electrode.

I took the 4R to the drag strip this weekend. It had rained the night before and the officials would only allow a 1/8-mile course. I was really disappointed but made three runs to see what results would be. The temperature was 60* - 64* with relative humidity. For my first run I started from idle and the engine bogged off the line. My 0-60’ time was 2.368 and my 1/8 mile ET was 10.6 / 65.82 mph. I assumed a 16.45 ¼-mile ET. My second run was from a 2000rpm preload and my 60’ time was 2.404 seconds with a 10.878 / 64.43 mph 1/8-mile ET (estimated 16.86 ¼-mile ET). My final run was at a 2500rpm preload and the results were a 0-60’ time of 2.323 seconds and a 10.69 / 65.09 mph ET (estimated 16.56 ¼-mile ET).

NOTE: I tried opening up the airbox again but pre-ignition returned almost instantly.

I have wondered about the vacuum connections on the SC but all my hoses are connected correctly according to the TRD manual. Nick, please keep us informed with specific information on your progress. If you want to talk to Kevin MacMillan, call him at Magnuson (805-642-8833 x242). However, remember that Magnuson builds the SC’s for TRD according to Toyota engine specs. TRD is responsible for everything else. Magnuson is not responsible for the problems we are experiencing, but they will try to help as a last resort. Please, everyone, be respectful and considerate with your communications with them so that we do not scare them away.

I guess this is enough for now. :pat:

ManyMods

I gave misinformation on the torque spec for the sparkplugs, so I thougth that since I must correct myself I would offer my writeup for removing the spark plugs on my engine. I realize that there are several ways of doing this and there is always someone who will distainfully say that they have a better way and are more proficient at the procedure, or that I am insulting the group's intelligence by implying that anyone might need help with the process. Flame me if you wish but here goes:

TOYOTA 4Runner 5VZ-FE 3.4L V-6 Engine
SPARK PLUG REMOVAL PROCEDURE & TOOLS:

TOOLS:
·Phillips screwdriver (medium tip)
·24” grabber retrieval tool
·Plug Boot Pliers (optional)
·Torque Wrench (13 FtLbf)
·1/4” & 3/8” Drive Ratchet
·Long and Medium length extensions
·(Optional) 5/8” x3/8” Drive Spark Plug Socket w/ rubber insert
·16mm x3/8” Drive Deep Socket
·14mm x3/8” Drive Socket
·13mm x1/4” Drive Socket
·10 mm x1/4" Drive Socket


Right Side (PS):
·Loosen and move air intake tube (ISR) or IS intake box out of the way so that you can access the #3 plug
·Remove 10mm coil bolts
·Disconnect three coil harness connectors from coil (tension clips)
·Remove wire loom if necessary
·Carefully disconnect coil/plug boots
Note: Do not pull by spark plug wire
·Loosen plugs w/ 16mm deep socket
·Remove plugs with 24” grabber tool

Left Side (DS):
·Loosen 10mm ground strap bolt on plenum and reposition at 3-o’clock position, tighten bolt (do not overtighen)
·Release throttle cable from bracket attached to plenum and then loosen 10mm bolt on throttle cable bracket attached to plenum so that bracket can move freely.
·Remove plug boots --- use boot pliers for #5 plug boot (Do not pull boots by spark plug wire)
·Loosen plugs w/ 16mm deep socket
·Remove plugs with 24” grabber tool

To reinstall plugs, use 24” grabber tool to install plugs and carefully start threading them.

Torque all plugs to 13 FtLbf

AznSky

Quick noob question, Can you buy a sc from a private source and have the dealership install it for you? Or would you have to get it from Toyota for them to be able to do the install, and usually it's pretty expensive huh? But with the install there's a warranty right?

pfdaxe

The dealer will install for you even if bought elsewhere since it's a Toyota part(maybe dependent on dealer)but it will cost you. If they install the s/c, it will be warrantied for the remainder of your 4 Runner warranty(providing it wasn't a used s/c being installed). If you install a new one yourself the s/c has a one year warranty.

ManyMods

Rob,
The short answer is LITFA !!!

However,if you must have a SC then as has just been said, some Toyota dealers may install the SC even if it is bought somewhere else as long as it is new. However, they don't like doing it because it is sort of like going for an oil change and bringing your own oil. Ona new truck the warranty is critical IMO. It only takes about 3-4 hours to install the unit but you will most likely still end up paying about $500.00 for the install --- flat rate. This is pretty much the going rate from most shops who install SC's whether it is a Toyota part or otherwise. If I recall, your truck is a '96 so you have to weigh the warranty advantages vs the installation cost. The installation is very straight forward and simple for someone with mechanical skill and the directions are excellent. It will help you to have a FSM if you are planning to do the job yourself.

BlueTrane

WOOOOOHOOOOO!!

The problem is fixed. You're right it is not a 3 way valve at all. It looks a lot like the one way valve in the S/C manual for earlier trucks.

I don't know how or why this fixed the problem but it did. Now, upon acceleration, the vehicle just goes without clanks, bogs or anything. Its perfect.

BTW, I got a speeding ticket today. Dallas Area Rapid Transit caught me going 80 in a 60 from 1087 feet away with a Lidar Laser gun. I had no chance. My fixed 4Runner made the day better though.

Thanks for everyone's help!!

Nick

ManyMods

Nick,
I am really very glad that you got the problem solved and I can sense your high, BUT --- would you please give us some more explicit details on what was done and to what. What part did they install and what is the PN? Will you take a picture of the installation and post it? If you can't provide the information I am asking for then please give me the name of the service manager at the dealer and their telephone number.

I put the OE plugs back in today, gapped to .032. I have not had a chance to do any "at-speed" WOT runs but the low-end driveability is better than with the colder plugs.

BlueTrane

The original installation was shabby. According to the tech, the ports were nippled off that weren't supposed to be and the hosing was all messed up. They installed a white valve on some tubing under the throttle body. I'll take some pictures tomorrow when I can get at my friend's digital camera.

If you wanted to know, you can contact my service manager at Fowler Toyota. His name is Ray and can be reached at 214-324-0411 ext. 210. Just ask about the Black 4Runner with the supercharger and he'll know what you're talking about. I would have asked him for more info but he was on the phone when they finished.

Let you know later.

Nick

ManyMods

I just got off the phone with Ray and Chris at Fowler Toyota. Chris is the technician who had this mess dumped into his lap (his words) and he's the one who had conversations with TRD. I found it reassuring once again to get corroboration from another Toyota employee as to the frustration they all experience with TRD and their style of consumer driven R&D. They just put the crap out there and let the consumer problems create the solutions --- hopefully.

The most important items to note here are that the IAC check valve should be installed in the IAC vacuum line on the 2001 and 2002 models despite the fact that the manual says otherwise. The FPR is to be connected to the brass boost port to facilitate FMU operation. The port on the throttle body should be capped. The IAC check valve they use is the same one listed on the parts sheet that is part of the installation manual. Chris faxed me the sheet but I cannot read the PN so I will get my manual out when I get home and post later. One of the conditions created by not having the IAC check valve in-line is the surging and hesitation that Chris was experiencing.

I found it interesting that TRD is now supplying piggy back ECM tuners for the V8 Tundra’s with SC’s. So far they are saying nothing about tuning problems with the 3.4 V6’s.

Once again, CONGRATULATIONS to Nick for finally reaching peace of mind. I wish you many miles of pleasurable driving.

ManyMods

Here is a pic of the IAC check valve that comes in the SC installation kit. It is PN 00602-17620-065.

The black mark is to be facing toward the throttle body because this is a one-way valve.

FattyCBR

Peter-

The PN for the 1-way valve is 00602-17620-065. That's a TRD number.

BlueTrane

Here are the pics of the IAC in action. BTW, I've noticed at least a one mile per gallon increase as well. I'm beyond happy. Enjoy.





Nick

ManyMods

Nick et al --
Once again I have returned from another +600 mile road trip. This time with the IAC check valve installed and my OE spark plugs gapped at .032. I had no other engine mods.

I really thrashed the truck this time, driving at speeds averaging 80mph and constantly mashing the pedal to the floor. The engine and drivetrain perform flawlessly and except for the increase in torque and performance, the truck drives just like a stock NA truck. My average mileage for the trip was 19.2mpg. The vacuum is down about 2 InHg and it fluctuates, depending upon load, between 8-12 InHg. I can now say with certainty, that little check valve is the culprit causing a myriad of problems.

I am going to call Magnuson today and tell them what I am experiencing. I will ask them if they think I can open up the spark plug gap a bit, to .035, in order to possibly improve performance. Gapping down the one-step colder plugs did not yield good results --- and I did NOT use the 5# pulley.

The only negative part of my trip was when I got into a race with a brand new BMW X5 (black w/ limo black windows). I had him at first but at 105mph he literally walked away from me.

broknlgs24

Blue, did u ever figure out where the smell was coming from?
when u notice this smell, is your rear hatch window open?

ManyMods

Are you talking to Nick or me?
I had the smell in the cockpit and it came from the compression fitting on the boost gauge not being tight enough. The vacuum readings were fine but it was just not tight enough and after I redid the fittings at both ends the smell was gone for good.

BlueTrane

I can no longer smell anything in the cabin.

However, I haven't had anyone ride behind me yet when I mash it to see what they say. I'll let you know.

Nick

broknlgs24

i was asking Blue. when i 1st had my S/C installed, i noticed a smell inside the cabin when i mashed the pedal. i took it to the dealr, they couldn't duplicate it (they never can..). no sooner i left the dealer and got onto the highway, i mashed it and wouldn't u know it, there was the smell. i called the dealer and let them know. turns out, when the technician test drove it, he had all of the windows up. i; however, had the sunroof and rear window open. he claimed that because the rear window was down, the exhaust fumes were being sucked in thru the window. i asusme what he said was correct because i only smell it if the rear window is down.

manymods, i didn't see anywhere where u were having an odor. i probably missed it though.

a while back, i think i posted the same problem about the hesitation. i took the Runner to the dealer and they claimed that the belt tensioner was loose. i still have the problem. how can i be sure that they install the IAC Check Valve? what about the Free FMU Mod, is this somoething they should've have done?

BlueTrane

Look at my post with the pictures in it. You can see the white valve located in the red circle. It is below and behind the throttle body.

Nick

ManyMods

broknlgs24 ...

If your truck is a '01 or '02, the mechanic should not have installed the IAC valve. You see where it is by looking at the pics that Nick posted. The latest word is that the IAC valve should be installed on the '01 and '02 models. The FPR vacuum line should be connected to the boost port on all models, as this is the FMU mod that Mr. Gasket pioneered.

I want to move on to another observation since the installation of the IAC valve: The other day after I got back from my NY trip, with the truck running incredibly well, I decided to push the envelope once again by trying something that prior to the IAC valve would immediately cause pre-ignition.

I opened up the airbox again by removing the cap on the Beckson deckplate. This time the result was that performance improved slightly as did gas mileage and not once did it ping. The MAF was reading the increased airflow and was able to make the adjustments within the ECU fuel trim parameters. Prior to the IAC valve, the unmetered air coming through the unchecked IAC vacuum line was too much coupled with the increased flow from the airbox.

The truck just keeps running better and better every day. I want to reinstall the TRD catback exhaust to see if the drone and tone are tamer and if the performance improves some more. Of course, if the exhaust plumbing interferes with the 3rd generation Addco bar then I won't be able to run the test.

tomus1000

I have not yet checked to see if my '02 had the IAC valve installed. It is pretty late and dark right now. I do experience some of the problems that you guys were discussing. I will check it in the morning.

If it has not, are there any special mods that need to be done to install it? It appear, from the pics, that it just gets incerted into that existing line. Is this correct?