Double Cardan U-joint Teardown '02 Tacoma
03-24-2009, 03:49 PM
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Double Cardan U-joint Teardown '02 Tacoma
I recently attempted to replace the u-joints in my double cardan. I searched high and low for good info on how to do this before I started but didn't find much of a consensus on the issue. Some people say you can do it and some say you can't. The following is what I found out from actually doing it.
First off it is possible to replace the two u-joints, provided you can find replacements that fit. The problem I found was the replacement u-joints were just a little bit wider than the originals. By that I mean the distance between outside to outside of the bearing cups. The replacements that I tried were about 1/32" longer than the originals but that was enough to not allow both c-clips to properly seat into their grooves. To remedy this you could feasibly take a grinder with a high grit flap disc and remove equal amounts of material from both bearing cups until there is enough allowance for the c-clips to fit into their grooves. As far as the center bearing goes, I could not find that part available to buy but I didn't put to much effort into looking for it. When I say center bearing I mean the bearing inside the center of the double cardan between the u-joints, not to be confused with the carrier bearing.
The first problem. Because you have two u-joints with a center bearing connecting them, you can not press the bearing cups out nearly as far as you can with a typical u-joint assembly. You end up with only about 3/8" of the bearing cup protruding from the yoke. I tried to twist and pull the cups out with vise grips but that didn't work for me. My vise grips are worn down so that could have been why, hard to say since there is so little cup to grab in the first place because of the above mentioned reason. So what I did was make a very crude and simple slide hammer (5 minute build). I made it so I could weld it directly to the bearing cups, slide hammer the cups out, cut the welded cup from the tip of the slide hammer, and repeat. The following pictures show how far the cups could be pressed out and the slide hammer.
The other thing is you have to disassemble the cardan in a specific sequence. First you remove the two bearing cups which allow you to remove the flange from the double yoke housing. Then you can remove the flange bearing cups without using a slide hammer and install the new u-joint in the flange section. Next you have to remove the two remaining bearing cups in the double yoke housing. This will allow you to remove the double yoke housing in order to remove the last u-joint. See pics below.
Assembly would be everything explained only in reverse. In the end I chose not to reassemble the unit. I didn't like the idea of grinding the bearing cups and was tired of looking for the proper fitting replacements. I ended up taking it to a drive shaft shop and they cut out the double cardan and replaced it with one which accepts common u-joints. So before you take yours apart be aware that you may not find the proper replacement u-joints and the only other option at that point is to grind down the bearing cups. Or pay a high price for a shop to rebuilt it. I paid $600 for them to rebuild and balance mine. Hope this post brings a little clarity to the whole double cardan issue.
Also, my truck is a 2002 double cab V6 prerunner. I'm not sure which other trucks this information applies to.
First off it is possible to replace the two u-joints, provided you can find replacements that fit. The problem I found was the replacement u-joints were just a little bit wider than the originals. By that I mean the distance between outside to outside of the bearing cups. The replacements that I tried were about 1/32" longer than the originals but that was enough to not allow both c-clips to properly seat into their grooves. To remedy this you could feasibly take a grinder with a high grit flap disc and remove equal amounts of material from both bearing cups until there is enough allowance for the c-clips to fit into their grooves. As far as the center bearing goes, I could not find that part available to buy but I didn't put to much effort into looking for it. When I say center bearing I mean the bearing inside the center of the double cardan between the u-joints, not to be confused with the carrier bearing.
The first problem. Because you have two u-joints with a center bearing connecting them, you can not press the bearing cups out nearly as far as you can with a typical u-joint assembly. You end up with only about 3/8" of the bearing cup protruding from the yoke. I tried to twist and pull the cups out with vise grips but that didn't work for me. My vise grips are worn down so that could have been why, hard to say since there is so little cup to grab in the first place because of the above mentioned reason. So what I did was make a very crude and simple slide hammer (5 minute build). I made it so I could weld it directly to the bearing cups, slide hammer the cups out, cut the welded cup from the tip of the slide hammer, and repeat. The following pictures show how far the cups could be pressed out and the slide hammer.
The other thing is you have to disassemble the cardan in a specific sequence. First you remove the two bearing cups which allow you to remove the flange from the double yoke housing. Then you can remove the flange bearing cups without using a slide hammer and install the new u-joint in the flange section. Next you have to remove the two remaining bearing cups in the double yoke housing. This will allow you to remove the double yoke housing in order to remove the last u-joint. See pics below.
Assembly would be everything explained only in reverse. In the end I chose not to reassemble the unit. I didn't like the idea of grinding the bearing cups and was tired of looking for the proper fitting replacements. I ended up taking it to a drive shaft shop and they cut out the double cardan and replaced it with one which accepts common u-joints. So before you take yours apart be aware that you may not find the proper replacement u-joints and the only other option at that point is to grind down the bearing cups. Or pay a high price for a shop to rebuilt it. I paid $600 for them to rebuild and balance mine. Hope this post brings a little clarity to the whole double cardan issue.
Also, my truck is a 2002 double cab V6 prerunner. I'm not sure which other trucks this information applies to.
Last edited by Zvoot; 03-24-2009 at 07:40 PM.
03-24-2009, 06:54 PM
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How often does the double cardan joint fail? I'm guessing it depends on how well it was lubed regularly, but in general, how many people have to replace these?
03-24-2009, 07:22 PM
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Got it, I figured it was something obvious. At first I thought you meant to type WTF but that wouldn't make much sense.
Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if there was a rebuild kit available for the damn thing. I don't see why the after-market parts industry can't produce u-joints that will actually work. And you would think by now this issue would have been resolved since I'm surely not the first person to discovery that the listed replacement u-joints are wrong.
Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if there was a rebuild kit available for the damn thing. I don't see why the after-market parts industry can't produce u-joints that will actually work. And you would think by now this issue would have been resolved since I'm surely not the first person to discovery that the listed replacement u-joints are wrong.
03-24-2009, 07:27 PM
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When I had to do the U's on my old 91 single cab, I fubard the yokes, dropped it off at a driveline shop 2 days and 117 dollars later I had the DS back...
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03-24-2009, 07:35 PM
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Mike, I'm not sure. I was getting a terrible vibration and after replacing both the front and rear u-joints the vibration was still there. That is when I decided to rebuild the double cardan. But in my case I had never greased any of the u-joints since I owned the truck. I just assumed that since the front end had no zerks that the drive shaft must have sealed u-joints. Wrong. I would guess that if you have greased the u-joints with the recommended grease at the recommended service times your u-joints would probably last the lifetime of the vehicle. That is if you haven't lifted/lowered the vehicle or done anything to alter the original design of the angles.
06-03-2009, 08:24 AM
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I was greasing my driveshafts on my 02 4wd 4Runner yesterday. This is the first time I've done this personally on my 4Runner since I've owned it.
I was following Bob's write up from 4runners.org. I know his was from a 98 4Runner but i figured most of it would be the same. However, I could not find any zerks on my double cardigan joint. Is this normal?
I found the 2 on the rear end of the driveshaft and then I was able what I believe to be two U joints up near the transmission however none on the double cardigan. I'm just curious about this...
I was following Bob's write up from 4runners.org. I know his was from a 98 4Runner but i figured most of it would be the same. However, I could not find any zerks on my double cardigan joint. Is this normal?
I found the 2 on the rear end of the driveshaft and then I was able what I believe to be two U joints up near the transmission however none on the double cardigan. I'm just curious about this...
06-03-2009, 02:15 PM
#10
Do you have a double cardon joint? I looked up a replacement driveshaft for the 02 4runner and it looks like there is a U joint up front by the transmission and one by the differential and then the slip between the two. From that you should have 1 up front and 2 in the back and then the ones for your front driveshaft (4WD). But I do drive a Tacoma Xtra cab which has the cardon. I just looked at a replacement DS so I could be worng...
06-03-2009, 09:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure I do have a double cardigan between the driveshaft and the transmission theres just no visible zerks in it.
This is the writeup I was using, http://4runners.org/writeups/zerk/index.html. He mentions two zerks on his double cardigan...
This is the writeup I was using, http://4runners.org/writeups/zerk/index.html. He mentions two zerks on his double cardigan...
06-03-2009, 09:40 PM
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Spin the DS a little to the other side, i have a 02 and they are there. There is a very good possibility that they are hiding under some dirt and blend in very well. They are and the center of they joint and you will probly need a flexible hose to get to them easily.
Last edited by twitchee2; 06-03-2009 at 09:42 PM.
06-04-2009, 06:01 AM
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06-04-2009, 08:29 AM
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I'm pretty sure I do have a double cardigan between the driveshaft and the transmission theres just no visible zerks in it.
This is the writeup I was using, http://4runners.org/writeups/zerk/index.html. He mentions two zerks on his double cardigan...
This is the writeup I was using, http://4runners.org/writeups/zerk/index.html. He mentions two zerks on his double cardigan...
Here's Brian from WabFab wearing one here...
06-04-2009, 08:31 AM
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I grease the joints on mine per specs. They're there, but you do have to look for them, and twitchee's right...it's easier with a flex hose on the gun.
06-04-2009, 08:38 AM
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Hahaha that was funny Tacoclimber.
I do have a flexible hose on my grease gun and I know I greased two zerks on what I think are the U joints hidden up inside/ past the double CARDON joint. I'll go back out and look and post up pictures if necessary...
I do have a flexible hose on my grease gun and I know I greased two zerks on what I think are the U joints hidden up inside/ past the double CARDON joint. I'll go back out and look and post up pictures if necessary...
Last edited by benp; 06-04-2009 at 08:39 AM.
01-15-2011, 09:25 AM
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Wow, I wish I had found this thread before I started ripping apart my driveline!
I called Toyota and they said it's a non-serviceable item. Even they don't sell u-joints for it, and they said to take it to a driveline shop.
Headed down to the yota yard to pick up a used driveline out of another tacoma. I pretty much destroyed the u-joints trying to get them out, and I can't be without this truck. I guess I'll just get the old one rebuilt if the used driveline can't cut it.
This isn't true in all cases. My truck is std cab, and has the double joint.
I called Toyota and they said it's a non-serviceable item. Even they don't sell u-joints for it, and they said to take it to a driveline shop.
Headed down to the yota yard to pick up a used driveline out of another tacoma. I pretty much destroyed the u-joints trying to get them out, and I can't be without this truck. I guess I'll just get the old one rebuilt if the used driveline can't cut it.
This isn't true in all cases. My truck is std cab, and has the double joint.
01-31-2013, 10:53 AM
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double cardan u-joint 02 tacoma - nightmare experience
Firstly, I want to send a huge thanks to ZVOOT for posting his findings/recommendations around solving this issue.
Secondly, be absolute certain that your double cardan u joints need replacing, if not, leave em be and keep greasing them. However, if you have already removed the double cardan u joints, here's what my experience entailed.
Un-suspectingly, I went to work to tear down the u-joints from the double cardan joint location and the rear yoke location, thinking that a routine stop at a part's store would have me back home with the brand new u-joints and off to the races as it were. NOT.. I too found the same problem, the parts store and even the local toyota dealership showed a replacement u-joint part # for the double cardan joint location, however, turned out, they were all incorrect part numbers and parts. Had to resort to measuring out the old u-joint. Even then, not able to find the correct u-joint as I was not able to find one that had the right outside measurement from cup to cup that would allow the outside retaining clips to seat properly. Next step, had a close look at the old u-joint to determine make and possible part number, the part was made by Koyo, with the number KC1719DL. Long story short, was not able to find this part anywhere, local parts store, or through internet search.
So, here is were ZVOOT's blog paid dividends. With some patience and determination, I went the route of grinding down equal amounts of the cup ends to fall within the required measurements using a hand grinder and high grit flap disk. Have all of it put back together, took it for a test drive, and no more vibration. Otherwise, a brand new drive shaft replacement through dealership would have cost $1800. CAD, re-build $600 CAD.
Secondly, be absolute certain that your double cardan u joints need replacing, if not, leave em be and keep greasing them. However, if you have already removed the double cardan u joints, here's what my experience entailed.
Un-suspectingly, I went to work to tear down the u-joints from the double cardan joint location and the rear yoke location, thinking that a routine stop at a part's store would have me back home with the brand new u-joints and off to the races as it were. NOT.. I too found the same problem, the parts store and even the local toyota dealership showed a replacement u-joint part # for the double cardan joint location, however, turned out, they were all incorrect part numbers and parts. Had to resort to measuring out the old u-joint. Even then, not able to find the correct u-joint as I was not able to find one that had the right outside measurement from cup to cup that would allow the outside retaining clips to seat properly. Next step, had a close look at the old u-joint to determine make and possible part number, the part was made by Koyo, with the number KC1719DL. Long story short, was not able to find this part anywhere, local parts store, or through internet search.
So, here is were ZVOOT's blog paid dividends. With some patience and determination, I went the route of grinding down equal amounts of the cup ends to fall within the required measurements using a hand grinder and high grit flap disk. Have all of it put back together, took it for a test drive, and no more vibration. Otherwise, a brand new drive shaft replacement through dealership would have cost $1800. CAD, re-build $600 CAD.
09-30-2013, 01:22 PM
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Can you reference the part numbers on the joints that you used? Mine at the DC are going bad.
Firstly, I want to send a huge thanks to ZVOOT for posting his findings/recommendations around solving this issue.
Secondly, be absolute certain that your double cardan u joints need replacing, if not, leave em be and keep greasing them. However, if you have already removed the double cardan u joints, here's what my experience entailed.
Un-suspectingly, I went to work to tear down the u-joints from the double cardan joint location and the rear yoke location, thinking that a routine stop at a part's store would have me back home with the brand new u-joints and off to the races as it were. NOT.. I too found the same problem, the parts store and even the local toyota dealership showed a replacement u-joint part # for the double cardan joint location, however, turned out, they were all incorrect part numbers and parts. Had to resort to measuring out the old u-joint. Even then, not able to find the correct u-joint as I was not able to find one that had the right outside measurement from cup to cup that would allow the outside retaining clips to seat properly. Next step, had a close look at the old u-joint to determine make and possible part number, the part was made by Koyo, with the number KC1719DL. Long story short, was not able to find this part anywhere, local parts store, or through internet search.
So, here is were ZVOOT's blog paid dividends. With some patience and determination, I went the route of grinding down equal amounts of the cup ends to fall within the required measurements using a hand grinder and high grit flap disk. Have all of it put back together, took it for a test drive, and no more vibration. Otherwise, a brand new drive shaft replacement through dealership would have cost $1800. CAD, re-build $600 CAD.
Secondly, be absolute certain that your double cardan u joints need replacing, if not, leave em be and keep greasing them. However, if you have already removed the double cardan u joints, here's what my experience entailed.
Un-suspectingly, I went to work to tear down the u-joints from the double cardan joint location and the rear yoke location, thinking that a routine stop at a part's store would have me back home with the brand new u-joints and off to the races as it were. NOT.. I too found the same problem, the parts store and even the local toyota dealership showed a replacement u-joint part # for the double cardan joint location, however, turned out, they were all incorrect part numbers and parts. Had to resort to measuring out the old u-joint. Even then, not able to find the correct u-joint as I was not able to find one that had the right outside measurement from cup to cup that would allow the outside retaining clips to seat properly. Next step, had a close look at the old u-joint to determine make and possible part number, the part was made by Koyo, with the number KC1719DL. Long story short, was not able to find this part anywhere, local parts store, or through internet search.
So, here is were ZVOOT's blog paid dividends. With some patience and determination, I went the route of grinding down equal amounts of the cup ends to fall within the required measurements using a hand grinder and high grit flap disk. Have all of it put back together, took it for a test drive, and no more vibration. Otherwise, a brand new drive shaft replacement through dealership would have cost $1800. CAD, re-build $600 CAD.
10-19-2013, 10:27 PM
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Double cardan
I recently repaired the double cardan on my 98 tacoma the regular ujoints were too big but I found some u joints for a 87-94 yota pickup and they were a good fit, take that stealership.
