Crawler gears in a 3rd gen?
11-30-2008, 10:55 AM
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Crawler gears in a 3rd gen?
I starting to think about a set of crawler gears for my 3rd gen 4runner. I would like to keep my stock transfer case and swap the low range for something like a 4:1. Has anyone done this? Do the gears exist? I don't want to do a doubler because: of cost of driveshafts, cutting the trans tunnel.
I've looked at Marlin and Inchworm websites but it looks like everything is for 2nd gens. What are my options?
I've looked at Marlin and Inchworm websites but it looks like everything is for 2nd gens. What are my options?
11-30-2008, 12:14 PM
#2
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I starting to think about a set of crawler gears for my 3rd gen 4runner. I would like to keep my stock transfer case and swap the low range for something like a 4:1. Has anyone done this? Do the gears exist? I don't want to do a doubler because: of cost of driveshafts, cutting the trans tunnel.
I've looked at Marlin and Inchworm websites but it looks like everything is for 2nd gens. What are my options?
I've looked at Marlin and Inchworm websites but it looks like everything is for 2nd gens. What are my options?
You need a lefty transfercase. Its an early gear drive case modified to be driver drop.
http://www.inchwormgear.com/store/pr...5c23ed0f4f6000
11-30-2008, 03:27 PM
#6
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Not sure about the lefty. I have dual cases with 4.7 in the rear case, all gear drive, so I suppose I have real t-cases. I've shifted mine from 4hi to 2hi and from 2hi to 4hi at speeds up to 55mph many, many times.
Not sure why the lefty doesn't work the same way since it is essentially the same thing, with a different casing.
Not sure why the lefty doesn't work the same way since it is essentially the same thing, with a different casing.
Last edited by AxleIke; 11-30-2008 at 03:29 PM.
11-30-2008, 03:36 PM
#7
You have shifted from 2Hi to 4Hi? And you are sure you have gear drive cases? I have always experienced that the top shift gear drive can't be shifted from 2wd to 4wd when you are moving. I CAN however shift from 4wd to 2wd no problem at any speed.
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11-30-2008, 09:47 PM
#8
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I am 100% positive I have gear drive cases. I did my 4.7's myself. Lots of gears, no chains.
I can shift from 2hi to 4hi at any speed.
Maybe we are discussing different procedures?
I will detail my procedure with an example. I live in CO, so, if I'm going to take a drive to, say, the mountains, where snow is possible, I do the following: Go out to my truck, lock the hubs, get in the truck, drive to the mountains, if its snowy, I let off the gas so the truck is coasting, and pull the 4wd lever back into 4wd.
The turbo truck will also do this with no problem. The 4runner is top shift, turbo is forward, both gear drive cases.
The only possible way I can figure that this doesn't work for you is if you are referring to having the hubs unlocked. The chain drive cases have syncros so the ADD crap works. The transfer case speeds up the driveline, and therefore the diff, and then the vacuum stuff actuates, and the collar slides over and engages the front end. Gear drive trucks have to have the hubs locked. If you are driving straight, and the front wheels are spinning at the same speed as your rears, it should pop into 4wd no issue.
The op just has to hack the add system so that it can be engaged manually when he is stopped, much like I lock my hubs. Then, if 4wd is needed out of the lefty, it will go in at any speed.
I can shift from 2hi to 4hi at any speed.
Maybe we are discussing different procedures?
I will detail my procedure with an example. I live in CO, so, if I'm going to take a drive to, say, the mountains, where snow is possible, I do the following: Go out to my truck, lock the hubs, get in the truck, drive to the mountains, if its snowy, I let off the gas so the truck is coasting, and pull the 4wd lever back into 4wd.
The turbo truck will also do this with no problem. The 4runner is top shift, turbo is forward, both gear drive cases.
The only possible way I can figure that this doesn't work for you is if you are referring to having the hubs unlocked. The chain drive cases have syncros so the ADD crap works. The transfer case speeds up the driveline, and therefore the diff, and then the vacuum stuff actuates, and the collar slides over and engages the front end. Gear drive trucks have to have the hubs locked. If you are driving straight, and the front wheels are spinning at the same speed as your rears, it should pop into 4wd no issue.
The op just has to hack the add system so that it can be engaged manually when he is stopped, much like I lock my hubs. Then, if 4wd is needed out of the lefty, it will go in at any speed.
Last edited by AxleIke; 11-30-2008 at 09:58 PM.
12-01-2008, 06:17 AM
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locking the hubs is thee difference once the hubs are locked the front drive shaft will be spinning. This will eliminate the need to syncros. I change my FJ40 (gear t-case) in and out of 2h 4h and in and out of 2l and 4L at any speed the fj40 can reach.
12-01-2008, 07:30 AM
#11
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I realized that you might be referring to the fact that Gerdo has ADD, and without a syncro case, would have issues shifting on the fly, since his driveshaft won't be spinning. Same as a manual hub truck with out the hubs locked in.
Anyway, apologies if it came across snide. Wasn't my intention.
12-01-2008, 08:07 AM
#13
Contributing Member
If he hacks the add, he'll be able to. So, no real cost, except that you have to shift the add while stopped, same as a manual hub truck has to lock the hubs.
12-01-2008, 08:14 AM
#14
Wasn't trying to be a dick. Just saying what works for me.
I realized that you might be referring to the fact that Gerdo has ADD, and without a syncro case, would have issues shifting on the fly, since his driveshaft won't be spinning. Same as a manual hub truck with out the hubs locked in.
Anyway, apologies if it came across snide. Wasn't my intention.
I realized that you might be referring to the fact that Gerdo has ADD, and without a syncro case, would have issues shifting on the fly, since his driveshaft won't be spinning. Same as a manual hub truck with out the hubs locked in.
Anyway, apologies if it came across snide. Wasn't my intention.
Its all good man!
02-09-2010, 11:23 AM
#15
Contributing Member
I'm pretty sure I just blew up my center differential and likely hosed my transfer case on a run yesterday.
I have a 2001 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto. I thought I broke a CV when I heard that distinct metal thunk but both CVs are fine. The output shaft from the t-case was turning when I checked it on the trail but neither of my front tires were spinning. I have open diffs front and rear and the only tire that was spinning was one in the rear. I put it back into 2hi figuring it was either my center diff or my front diff and after a winchfest we got to a gentle enough grade to get back on the pavement. On the highway it went back into 4wd but the center diff wouldn't lock. After a few miles it was apparent that the center diff was not going to lock. When I tried to put it back into 2WD The 4WD indicator in the dash instrument cluster stayed flashing indicating that it's not able to complete the task. A few miles later on the highway around a curve to the right I heard my first clunk. It got progressively worse from there. The occasional clunking noise was coming from center front around where the t-case is and would often clunk a few times as I was going around a curve. By the time I got home it was clunking when I slowed to 10 - 20 mpg as well as any turns or curves. When I hopped out of my rig at my house I could smell gear oil. Guess I should have bought a '99 or 2000 lol
Before I go out and jump the gun and start buying parts. Is there anything else you can think of that I should check to diagnose and make sure it really is the t-case and not the front diff or something else?
If I can find a low security bank to rob or a politician to blackmail I'm thinking the inchworm Lefty with twin sticks would be a good choice. It'd be nice to get the lower gears, remove the weak link center diff, and be one step closer to a flat belly.
Assuming I do need to repair/replace the t-case any suggestions on my options are at this point?
Any other links that you know of to t-case info is welcome as well.
It was just suggested to me that a 4.7:1 might actually be too low a gear for basic things like snow bashing, and keeping up with the rest of the group in a trail run. He was saying that 4.7:1 is so low that I may be reving high just to keep up with the stock t-cased rigs. Anyone running 4.7s that can verify or debunk this?
I have a 2001 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto. I thought I broke a CV when I heard that distinct metal thunk but both CVs are fine. The output shaft from the t-case was turning when I checked it on the trail but neither of my front tires were spinning. I have open diffs front and rear and the only tire that was spinning was one in the rear. I put it back into 2hi figuring it was either my center diff or my front diff and after a winchfest we got to a gentle enough grade to get back on the pavement. On the highway it went back into 4wd but the center diff wouldn't lock. After a few miles it was apparent that the center diff was not going to lock. When I tried to put it back into 2WD The 4WD indicator in the dash instrument cluster stayed flashing indicating that it's not able to complete the task. A few miles later on the highway around a curve to the right I heard my first clunk. It got progressively worse from there. The occasional clunking noise was coming from center front around where the t-case is and would often clunk a few times as I was going around a curve. By the time I got home it was clunking when I slowed to 10 - 20 mpg as well as any turns or curves. When I hopped out of my rig at my house I could smell gear oil. Guess I should have bought a '99 or 2000 lol
Before I go out and jump the gun and start buying parts. Is there anything else you can think of that I should check to diagnose and make sure it really is the t-case and not the front diff or something else?
If I can find a low security bank to rob or a politician to blackmail I'm thinking the inchworm Lefty with twin sticks would be a good choice. It'd be nice to get the lower gears, remove the weak link center diff, and be one step closer to a flat belly.
Assuming I do need to repair/replace the t-case any suggestions on my options are at this point?
Any other links that you know of to t-case info is welcome as well.
It was just suggested to me that a 4.7:1 might actually be too low a gear for basic things like snow bashing, and keeping up with the rest of the group in a trail run. He was saying that 4.7:1 is so low that I may be reving high just to keep up with the stock t-cased rigs. Anyone running 4.7s that can verify or debunk this?
Last edited by glenyoshida; 02-09-2010 at 01:12 PM.
02-09-2010, 03:40 PM
#17
Contributing Member
I'm pretty sure I just blew up my center differential and likely hosed my transfer case on a run yesterday.
I have a 2001 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto. I thought I broke a CV when I heard that distinct metal thunk but both CVs are fine. The output shaft from the t-case was turning when I checked it on the trail but neither of my front tires were spinning. I have open diffs front and rear and the only tire that was spinning was one in the rear. I put it back into 2hi figuring it was either my center diff or my front diff and after a winchfest we got to a gentle enough grade to get back on the pavement. On the highway it went back into 4wd but the center diff wouldn't lock. After a few miles it was apparent that the center diff was not going to lock. When I tried to put it back into 2WD The 4WD indicator in the dash instrument cluster stayed flashing indicating that it's not able to complete the task. A few miles later on the highway around a curve to the right I heard my first clunk. It got progressively worse from there. The occasional clunking noise was coming from center front around where the t-case is and would often clunk a few times as I was going around a curve. By the time I got home it was clunking when I slowed to 10 - 20 mpg as well as any turns or curves. When I hopped out of my rig at my house I could smell gear oil. Guess I should have bought a '99 or 2000 lol
Before I go out and jump the gun and start buying parts. Is there anything else you can think of that I should check to diagnose and make sure it really is the t-case and not the front diff or something else?
If I can find a low security bank to rob or a politician to blackmail I'm thinking the inchworm Lefty with twin sticks would be a good choice. It'd be nice to get the lower gears, remove the weak link center diff, and be one step closer to a flat belly.
Assuming I do need to repair/replace the t-case any suggestions on my options are at this point?
Any other links that you know of to t-case info is welcome as well.
It was just suggested to me that a 4.7:1 might actually be too low a gear for basic things like snow bashing, and keeping up with the rest of the group in a trail run. He was saying that 4.7:1 is so low that I may be reving high just to keep up with the stock t-cased rigs. Anyone running 4.7s that can verify or debunk this?
I have a 2001 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto. I thought I broke a CV when I heard that distinct metal thunk but both CVs are fine. The output shaft from the t-case was turning when I checked it on the trail but neither of my front tires were spinning. I have open diffs front and rear and the only tire that was spinning was one in the rear. I put it back into 2hi figuring it was either my center diff or my front diff and after a winchfest we got to a gentle enough grade to get back on the pavement. On the highway it went back into 4wd but the center diff wouldn't lock. After a few miles it was apparent that the center diff was not going to lock. When I tried to put it back into 2WD The 4WD indicator in the dash instrument cluster stayed flashing indicating that it's not able to complete the task. A few miles later on the highway around a curve to the right I heard my first clunk. It got progressively worse from there. The occasional clunking noise was coming from center front around where the t-case is and would often clunk a few times as I was going around a curve. By the time I got home it was clunking when I slowed to 10 - 20 mpg as well as any turns or curves. When I hopped out of my rig at my house I could smell gear oil. Guess I should have bought a '99 or 2000 lol
Before I go out and jump the gun and start buying parts. Is there anything else you can think of that I should check to diagnose and make sure it really is the t-case and not the front diff or something else?
If I can find a low security bank to rob or a politician to blackmail I'm thinking the inchworm Lefty with twin sticks would be a good choice. It'd be nice to get the lower gears, remove the weak link center diff, and be one step closer to a flat belly.
Assuming I do need to repair/replace the t-case any suggestions on my options are at this point?
Any other links that you know of to t-case info is welcome as well.
It was just suggested to me that a 4.7:1 might actually be too low a gear for basic things like snow bashing, and keeping up with the rest of the group in a trail run. He was saying that 4.7:1 is so low that I may be reving high just to keep up with the stock t-cased rigs. Anyone running 4.7s that can verify or debunk this?
Can't help with the center diff stuff, hopefully someone who is more fluent with the newer technology will be able to chime in.
As for 4.7 gears, that I can speak to. Not sure who the "he" is that you are referring to though, but if he has 4.7's in a similar rig to yours then his advice will likely be more applicable.
I ran 4.7's only for a few years. It was fine for most trails in CO. Not great for snow, although you can shift up (if you have a manual) which is nice. If you have an auto, you are not going to like them much in the snow, since you cannot start in higher gears with a conventional automatic shifter.
I don't know what type of trails you like to run, but they are great on harder trails, but really suck on the scenic ones. For scenic, I found myself winding the motor out at higher RPM's and having issue keeping up. For more difficult trails, I find them perfect, except for the obstacles, which they are sometimes too high for.
Best solution? Dual cases with the lefty in the back. Gives you stock, and 4.7, plus low low, or about 10.7, which is great on the trails.
However, before you did ANY of that, I'd HIGHLY look into getting lockers. lower gears are much worse open/open because open/open, you often need momentum to get through things.
Edit: Just saw that you have an auto. That is going to suck in snow bashing.
FWIW, it might be more worthwhile for you to get a non electronic tcase from a junk yard and run it. Yeah, it will still be a weaker chain model, but the j-shift chain drives are plenty fine for smaller tires and non-V8 power.
Last edited by AxleIke; 02-09-2010 at 03:42 PM.
02-09-2010, 03:49 PM
#18
Contributing Member
Do you think the front diff being broken would prevent the 4WD from engaging/disengaging?
I'm with ya about the 4.7s not helping much without a locker or two. Just a few days ago, before I broke something I ordered 4.88s and ARB front and rear lockers lol. I guess the wheeling gods are trying to find a way to force me to buy more stuff.
So if I'm using the gear calculator (thanks grimjeeper) correctly for a single case...
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 2.28 t case the final is 31.15:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a stock t case the final is 34.98:1
with 4.10 gears in the diffs and a lefty of 4.7 t case the final is 53.96:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 4.7 t case the final is 64.22:1
That being the case I think that 4.7s would be too low anyhow for snow and just keeping up with other rigs on the trail. If I'm wrong about that someone please let me know. I've never run a ratio that low before.
Edit: Thanks AxleIke! I was typing this post when you already had yours submitted.
I plugged in the A340E Transmission, Toyota and Tacoma FJ (2.57) and left the under drive blank since I'm trying to figure out for a single case.
I'm with ya about the 4.7s not helping much without a locker or two. Just a few days ago, before I broke something I ordered 4.88s and ARB front and rear lockers lol. I guess the wheeling gods are trying to find a way to force me to buy more stuff.
So if I'm using the gear calculator (thanks grimjeeper) correctly for a single case...
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 2.28 t case the final is 31.15:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a stock t case the final is 34.98:1
with 4.10 gears in the diffs and a lefty of 4.7 t case the final is 53.96:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 4.7 t case the final is 64.22:1
That being the case I think that 4.7s would be too low anyhow for snow and just keeping up with other rigs on the trail. If I'm wrong about that someone please let me know. I've never run a ratio that low before.
Edit: Thanks AxleIke! I was typing this post when you already had yours submitted.
I plugged in the A340E Transmission, Toyota and Tacoma FJ (2.57) and left the under drive blank since I'm trying to figure out for a single case.
Last edited by glenyoshida; 02-10-2010 at 06:55 PM.
02-09-2010, 04:03 PM
#19
Contributing Member
I don't know what type of trails you like to run, but they are great on harder trails, but really suck on the scenic ones. For scenic, I found myself winding the motor out at higher RPM's and having issue keeping up. For more difficult trails, I find them perfect, except for the obstacles, which they are sometimes too high for.
Best solution? Dual cases with the lefty in the back. Gives you stock, and 4.7, plus low low, or about 10.7, which is great on the trails.
However, before you did ANY of that, I'd HIGHLY look into getting lockers. lower gears are much worse open/open because open/open, you often need momentum to get through things.
Edit: Just saw that you have an auto. That is going to suck in snow bashing.
FWIW, it might be more worthwhile for you to get a non electronic tcase from a junk yard and run it. Yeah, it will still be a weaker chain model, but the j-shift chain drives are plenty fine for smaller tires and non-V8 power.
Best solution? Dual cases with the lefty in the back. Gives you stock, and 4.7, plus low low, or about 10.7, which is great on the trails.
However, before you did ANY of that, I'd HIGHLY look into getting lockers. lower gears are much worse open/open because open/open, you often need momentum to get through things.
Edit: Just saw that you have an auto. That is going to suck in snow bashing.
FWIW, it might be more worthwhile for you to get a non electronic tcase from a junk yard and run it. Yeah, it will still be a weaker chain model, but the j-shift chain drives are plenty fine for smaller tires and non-V8 power.
I was told from Jonathan at Inchworm that in order to put in dual cases I'd have to have a custom tank to make rook for it
I sure would like to have dual cases though for just the reasons you mentioned. Seems like the best of both worlds.Um, I take it that you are suggesting I look into it, but your not sure if I can put a non center diff t case to replace the stock case in my 2001? I would love to get rid of the center diff. I just find it annoying. Only get's me stuck. I don't care about driving circles in a parking lot while in 4WD lol.
02-09-2010, 05:21 PM
#20
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So if I'm using the gear calculator (thanks grimjeeper) correctly for a single case...
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 2.28 t case the final is 31.15:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a stock t case the final is 34.98:1
with 4.10 gears in the diffs and a lefty of 4.7 t case the final is 53.96:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 4.7 t case the final is 64.22:1
.
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 2.28 t case the final is 31.15:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a stock t case the final is 34.98:1
with 4.10 gears in the diffs and a lefty of 4.7 t case the final is 53.96:1
with 4.88 gears in the diffs and a lefty 4.7 t case the final is 64.22:1
.
For some reason I thought that I had heard that you will be around 100:1 with the 4.7 ,I may be wrong.
As far as figuring out if the front diff or trans is blown...
1-I would start my climbing under the vehicle (vehicle turned off) and try to spin the front driveshaft by hand. If everything is good it'll spin smoothly.
2-Pull the front driveshaft, climb under (vehicle turned off) try to spin the front diff input and the transfer output by hand. You may now feel what has grenaded.
3-Pull the front driveshaft, climb under (vehicle turned on, be careful) try to spin the front diff input and the transfer output by hand. Do this with it in 4x4 and with and without the center diff locked. Also try with it in 4x2. You may now feel what has grenaded.
Here is Glen!I don't see any reason an earlier (96-2000) transfer wouldn't work.
Last edited by Gerdo; 02-09-2010 at 05:23 PM.
