keisur

Yes, not if you are careful and get the alignment after the saws, then let the settle, go back and install the ats arms and adjust the saws, then muddy the new stuff up and take it back to the place you got the alignment they may not notice and do free re-alignment. I know, it's shady, but the amount they charge for alignments more than covers another one. just play dumb if they ask and say, "what are you talking about? I can't even change my own oil!"

I'm not ready to drop the cash yet though, I need sliders and some other things first.

IndieFIRE

I diconected my sway bar last night. it seems to really have helped, I can flex again not as much as I would have liked but I think it should do till I can afford saws and upper a arms. I think that will give me my ideal lift very capable but not excesive (no SASing for my toy )

does anyone know if having your sway bar disconected causes excesive tire wear? it seems to handle fine still a little stiffer that stock.

keisur

wait until you're going down the interstate or a country road and have to slam on the brakes or swerve or both. your gonna think differently. it's best to keep those things on, there's a reason for them. Just get so disco's and only disconnect them at the trail head. That's what a majority of the boys here do.

ravencr

I'll second that! It's more of an emergency situation wreck preventer than anything else.

Chris

IndieFIRE

whats a discos? some kind of quick disconnect?

keisur

music from the '70s.

look here:

Lars Disconnects

BruceTS

Above statement is a bunch of bull...

I have the long travel kit on mine and when I cycled the suspension, it don't hit anywhere... As for the uni-ball causing a loss of travel, all I can say is I have 13" now. I almost went with the standard length A-arm with Donahoe coilovers, but decided to try something different. With standard A-arms theres no way they can contact the coil bucket, as for the uni-ball bolt poking a hole thru the fender well, I cycled my suspension to full up measured in 3 1/2" and it don't come close. Personally I perfer the Uni-ball joint much better than the stock one.

sschaefer3

How do you keep dirt and water out of the ball?

BruceTS

No need to, it's treated like any other teflon lined heim joint, as you can see from the photo, they are quite easy to replace when worn out. I'll see how long they last, but if it's like any other joint I've used in past projects, it'll take a while.

Albuquerque Jim

The Total Chaos A-arms look nice...but $650 a pair. Do you really gain that much?

BruceTS

When I went shopping for my front suspension upgrades, I looked at several different companies. The quality of Total Chaos’s suspension was far better than their competitors. After chatting with them directly and trying to convince them to fabricate my rear suspension. They said that just manufacturing what they already make, has been keeping them booked. If this is so, then I can understand why their price is higher that the rest.... supply and demand...

Now that I've had the long travel kit on for a week, driving on the street has been very smooth. The only differences is a bit more body sway and over steer, but not excessive. Now I have to test it in the wet, then I'll decide whether a front sway bar is needed or not. Before I can try it offroad, I'll need to weld in the tabs for the limit straps and brackets for the shock reservoirs.

Now, did I spend too much on the front suspension? YES
Would I do it again? YES

Considering that SAS was out of the question, I feel I did gain a lot, without losing street drivability.

Hopefully by March I'll get the rear done, going to a 4-link set-up unless I change my mind..

ravencr

Sweet man! What spring rates are you running on the SAW's? Also, since you're going all out, why don't you try to do a 1/4 elliptical rear suspension setup for a ton of flex? I want to find out more about them and I've seen pictures so far. But, the flex is unbeleivable.

Chris

BruceTS

The set-up I'm currently looking at for the rear, requires my fuel tank to be relocated. Fortunately the way the filler line is routed, this job is quite easy. If I get some time off from work in the next few months I may just fabricate my own fuel tank or just put in a fuel cell. I have a 22 gallon one just sitting around. I'll see about buying a complete tank from a salvage yard, for the parts.

As for the rear, C&R Motorsports has the most promising design. I've E-mailed them, so we'll see how that goes. They have a write-up on an earlier 4Runner that they did a 3-link system. http://www.c-rmotorsports.com/projects.htm The best part is the shocks are kept below, with over 2' of travel. As for 1/4 Elliptic System, No thanks..... I don't want to run any form of leaf springs.

What I'd like to run is a 4-link coilover system in the back, with SAW's.

The springs I'm currently running are 500 pounds, but I may have to go heavier, once I get my ARB Sahara bumper in and fabricate my skid plates. Right now the springs are turned all the way down and I'm still getting 2" of lift.

keisur

uh, isn't it already a 4-link, stock? mine is.

EDIT: ok, nevermind. I think I figured out you're talking about going to the C&R 4-link from the stock 4-link.

sschaefer3

After spending a day with Fear4Runner, his long travel was impressive in Southern California, but I wonder how it will do in Arizona, where all the trails are tight and slow.

Another thing that really bothers me about all this long travel stuff is that although you gain IFS travel, you still have the small 7.5" front diff and weaker style axle shafts.

The reason I would invest in the front end would be to gain strength. Be that a Toy solid axle or a Dana 44.

ravencr

I'm wanting to do the same thing. Steve has told me that a pathfinder tank fits in between the frame rails where the spare goes, but you have to cut the frame brace to make it fit. I think you could do that whole setup with even a new tank for less than $250. I've also thought about fabbing up my own tank too, but what materials or special precautions would you need to make? It looks like from there site they make a 3 link, 4 link, and a 1/4 elliptical system. I've emailed them too to find out the options for my 1997 4runner. When you say 2 feet of travel, how much more than stock is this? Or even more so, how much more travel is this over the OMEN86 shocks setup?

Quote:

The springs I'm currently running are 500 pounds, but I may have to go heavier, once I get my ARB Sahara bumper in and fabricate my skid plates. Right now the springs are turned all the way down and I'm still getting 2" of lift.

I find this very interesting don't you guys? If the normal spring rates for the SAWS using stock a-arms is 675lbs now, and the total chaos arms are providing more travel with a softer spring rate, then you would actually have a more compliant flexy suspension with the Total Chaos setup. I would have thought the SAWS were a heavier spring rate with the total chaos setup, wouldn't you? I would love to see this setup in action.

Chris

BruceTS

With the wider stance, I have less CV angle for the same amount of stock travel. Besides the Tundra axles have better inner CV"s.

Since I do live in So. Cal I seriously doubt I'll be doing a lot of trail riding in AZ. I want a more all around vehicle, for the trails, desert and highway.

Now if I really wanted to get that crazy and play hardcore, I'll built a full blown buggy, then trailer it in. It would be cheaper in the long run.. But then again it's fun working within limitations too.. IFS does have it's weakness and I do accept that, so as long as I don't try and do the impossible then it should hold up well.

I have welded on fuel tanks, so I do know how and what precautions to take. I'll have to look into the pathfinder tank...thanks

The biggest problem with the stock suspension is the panhard bar, if I went to heim joints or urethane bushings, it would be more prone to suspension binding during flex. With a converging link, it eliminates that problem, by doing away with it. Also, you can lower your rollcenter with new mounting points to help when driving on the street, to make up for the loss of the panhard bar.

As for the spring rate, my exact thoughts, if I can get away with running lighter springs, I will....

BTW, Joe Jovonovich told me to say Hi, to ya Steve...... I got his old axles, for spares, when he did the SAS on his Tundra...

ravencr

So how much more travel does the total chaos setup provide you with over stock? How much lift? Does it feel softer than stock? How much wider of a stance does it provide? I'd love to see some good flex shots!

Chris

BruceTS

I work offroad and during the past week of driving it's been a very smooth ride, on and offroad. As for lift, they recommend setting it at 3" minimum. The claimed travel is 13", but I've heard 14" too. I'll see if I can physically measure the actual travel today when I'm working on it. The ride offroad seemed softer than stock but on road it seemed the same. Hard cornering at speed was controllable in the dry, but who knows in the wet. Without a front sway bar it does make a difference.

I didn't get any CO2/Argon gas for my tanks yesterday, so no welding for me today. I was gonna make a bolt on drop bracket for the Panhard bar, that will have to wait.. Until I can fabricate the part for the rear, setting up the ride height is on hold.

I've got a loader at work, after I get done with the suspension, I'll lift it to see how much flex it has.

ravencr

So have you done anything in the rear yet? It looks like your sitting 1-2" higher in the front right now from what I can see. What do you have the front set at right now, and how much do you have the SAWS cranked up?

Chris