You can sue the military for breach of contract. WOW!!!!!!!
I thought once you signed the papers you were literally owned.
Maybe someone at the judge advocats office could enlighten me.

Ok, lets try this ...

You sign the papers, finish bootcamp and in the process you can't get in the school. You sue for breach of contract.

Are you released from your obligation to the military?
What does your DD-214 (military speak for release papers) say on them?
Other than honorable or something else?

Boggles my little mind.

 

None of these questions is really applicable to the enlistment in the Navy. It's hard to explain because I have limited experience in other branches. However, let me do my best to explain. You can be guaranteed a school prior to enlistment, and that decision will be honored. It's part of your enlistment papers, and goes in your service record. You can't really sue the Navy if you don't get the school, however, if you don't get the school they *are* in breach of contract, and the whole contract becomes null and void (in other words, they don't live up to their end, you don't have to live up to your end). I've never heard of this happening though (and I worked 4 years in a pipeline school, which means a school in the pipeline from recruit to the fleet).

The recruiters have a roster of when each school is available, and will ship you out according to whatever date the school has a class convening. The only ratings (jobs) that they will offer you are ones that do have slots available - it's a non-issue. Upon graduation from that school, your rating is what you are, period.

For example, I was a Gunner's Mate (GM). Period. My specialty (I went to a third school for this) was Vertical Launching System (VLS), and throughout my career I was not guaranteed to always work on VLS, but I was still always a Gunner's Mate. I might have had to work with small arms, 5" guns, or machine guns, but I was still a Gunner's Mate.

In the Navy, there are two different designators that determine what you are. The first is a rating. A rating is your area of expertise, for example, Gunner's Mate, Fire Controlman, Mess Cook, or Electronics Technician. This is not really the equivalent to an M.O.S. though it is often viewed as such. A sailor's rating is rolled into his rank, for example, I was a Petty Officer First Class - My rank was Gunner's Mate First Class, or GM1.

The second designator is an NEC, or Naval Enlisted Classification Code. An NEC is a 4 digit number that shows specific schools/training that you have been to. For example, after I completed VLS school I had a 0981 NEC, meaning that I could be assigned to a billet for VLS. After I left my ship, I became an instructor and got the 9502 NEC.

Some NECs can only be given to certain ratings, others can be received by multiple (or all) ratings.

When you are assigned a duty station, there is a detailer for each rating. His job is to find people to fill the jobs that need to be filled, and to send people orders to their next duty stations. He will have a list saying which NECs he needs filled (some jobs don't require an NEC, and he'll have those on his list also), and will look at the people who are up for orders and the jobs that they are requesting. If someone doesn't have an NEC for a set of orders that they want, the detailer can (and often does) send them to school prior to switching duty stations. If he doesn't send them to school, then he cannot (with a few exceptions) send them to that duty station, and his job cannot get done.

There are times when ratings merge and/or are dropped, but any affected individuals are usually converted to an associated rating. Those that aren't usually are either close to retirement or may be the last few peeps working on a system. Similar things happen for those NECs that are dropped.

The recruiter can guarantee you a rating. He cannot guarantee you an NEC. NECs (and their associated schools) will be given later (usually during the "A" school) and are sometimes arbitrary, sometimes depending on the needs of the Navy, and sometimes according to how well you did in school. When I went through "A" school to become a Gunner's Mate, there were 2 sets of orders for VLS, 1 set for the 76mm gun, 3 sets for the 5"/54 cal gun, and the rest were for generic Gunner's Mates (no NEC). There weren't any orders for small arms. I was 2nd in my class, so I got to pick VLS.

The only thing you really have to worry about is not passing the school. All you are guaranteed is the chance to pass (though in most schools they will help you as much as they can - they do want you to pass).

Hope this helps,

~Bill

 

Yes, that's right. While you can't technically *sue* the military for breach of contract, you can be released from your end of the contract if they don't fill their end.

From DODD 1332.14, enclosure 3, attachment 1

E3.A1.1.5.3. Defective enlistment agreements
E3.A1.1.5.3.1 Basis. A defective enlistment agreement exists in the following circumstances:
<snip>
E3.A1.1.5.3.1.2 The member received a written enlistment commitment from recruiting personnel for which the member was qualified, but which cannot be fulfilled by the Military Service; or
<snip>
E3.A1.1.5.3.2 Characterization or Description. Honorable, unless an Entry Level Separation or an order of release from the custody and control of the Military Services (by reason of void enlistment) is required under paragraph E3.A2.1.3 of Part 2.

There's so more info involved there, such as the member must not have knowingly participating in the creation of the defective enlistment, that the member brings the defect to the attention of appropriate authorities within 30 days after the defect is discovered or reasonably should have been discovered by the member, and that the member requests separation instead of other authorized corrective action.

One thing I learned from the Navy is to never take someone's word for it - find it in writing otherwise you will get burned a lot of the time.

~Bill

 

That statement is incorrect. You can get a guaranteed job, in writing, in the Air Force. BUT, if for some reason you don't meet the standards of training for that job, academic or physical, all bets are off.

 

That is SHHEEEET, the AF does also guarantee jobs. See what bighead wrote above, I am sure the Navy is the same way... what a piece of work that guy is.

 

well that is awesome that you are going to be an AT and a rescue swimmer.. That is xactly what I am .. GOod luck.. If they are having you take a test to be an e2 coming out of boot camp though what are they telling you that you will be if you don't .. Because that is why you have to sign up for 5 years or whatever.. You will be advanced to e2 automatically.. But maybe things have changed.. ALl I can say now is good luck and warn you that Rescue Swimmer school is definelty no joke.. You need to be in good shape and be able to swim at least a little.. ALso you must have a strong mind because they will ÅÅÅÅ with our head from the very second you get there.. BUt in the end it is definetly worth the four weeks of pain.. The money is good and the job is awesome.. Hell maybe we will end up in the same place as I am up for orders and will be transfering here like next Jan due to my helo (CH46d's) going away.. Sad.. BUt good luck and if you have any questions about anything just hit me up and I would be glad to answer them.. great though on the jobs..
jake

 

Haha, thats great and probably true. Some of the reasons I'm goin in lol. Semper Fi.

 

ok, i figured that other branches could gaurantee a job. and if i didnt take the test I would go in as E1, I am not signing for 5 years cuz I dont know if I am gonna like it, after I talk to everybody I probably will but just in case Id rather not sign off another year o my life that I dint have to just yetl.

 

Bill, excellent info. That's the kind of credable info I am searching for.

, Jim

 

No problem, I used to be a career counselor at the pipeline school that I was teaching at, so I got to do LOTS of research on tons and tons of things. You wouldn't believe some things that are in the regs. But I digress - that excerpt was from a DOD (Department of Defense) directive, so it applies to all branches of the armed forces (this may not apply to the Coast Guard, since I believe that the Coast Guard is now covered by the Department of Homeland Security (it was previously under the Department of Transportation) and I'm not sure if they abide by DOD directives. Though they may, since it used to be that the Coast Guard would shift under DOD during times of war, so who knows).

MaddMatt, if you're not sure if they armed forces are right for you, the Navy does offer 2 year enlistments. Unfortunately, you don't get an "A" school (not worth the Navy's money if you only stay in for 2 years, spend 1 of those years going to different schools and 1 in the fleet, and then get out), instead you go out to the fleet as a non-rate. It has benefits and disadvantages, most notably that life as a non-rate can be tough - long days and hard work - but you usually get a chance to see the different rates that are available and see what they do before you choose which rate you'd like to be. You probably won't get an enlistment bonus, however.

 

No the US Army will also guarantee your job...

When I signed on, I was guaranteed Ranger School and it was shown in my signed contract...

Yes I know all of you have really cool jobs that could even be used outside the Military...what can I say, I liked blowing things up!!

Mike

 

Good point XtremeOff-Road. Follow your passions.

Something I wished I did when I was in the Air Force but, took a safe path.

 

I was also in the Navy, for ten years. I signed a 6 year contract, and was advanced to E-4 in 8 months, E-5 at 3.5, and E-6 at 7.5, got out at 10.

I believe you can get promoted faster in the Navy than in the USAF, but the living conditions for the USAF are generally much better (unless you're in a tent city somehere). Living on a ship working long hours, and waiting in long lines takes some getting used to.

The military will be what you make of it, if you're a screw up, you won't do well. If you try your best, you will advance quicker, and you will also learn a good work ethic that will be with you after you leave the service.

Also, ask about the Navy College fund when signing up, it's free, if it's still avaiable. I did the GI Bill thing ($100 a month for the 1st 12 months), and I now get $985 a month tax-free for going to college (on the company dime). If they would have had the Navy College fund available, as a friend at work does, I'd get an additional $300 or so.

I was also an Avaition Electronics Technician, and loved doing my job, which was working on Infrared Systems. It is a combination of electronics, optics, and mechanics, which is what I liked about it. In fact, it's what I still do, but a lot more in depth. I work at a depot facility for Lockheed Martin, and I tear down Optics assemblies, rebuild them, and re-align the optics. It takes me about 40 hours to do each one. As a bonus, I also ride carriers as a Tech Rep once in awhile, I've done OSW a few times, and OEF and OIF.

BTW, get ready for some acronyms.

A bunch of us at work were in the service, and we all had one thing in common, the first week of boot camp, you're in such shock that you won't poop for a week, he he.

I'll be done with my BS in 7 weeks, and I'm going to try to rejoin as an Officer, so we'll see.

Good luck.

 

I was trying to stay out of this one, but gotta say a couple of things;

When your Navy recruiter said they were the only branch to guarantee jobs he was wrong. All branchs have some guarantee or another, just some are more specific. For example some branches have "job field" guarantees, like the "Aviation field",which upon further research could be any of a dozen jobs.
Others branches will guarantee a specific job, example 31S- Satellite Communications Repair. This factor wil also vary on time committment.

As far as pay, the pay charts are universal! No one branch gets paid more than another. As said earlier pay is based on rank, its how fast you can progress thats in question. Ask the recruiters what is the promotion policy and see it in writing. All the other stuff mentioned BAS , BAH, COLA, sea pay is also universal, so dont try and have someone tell you its exclusive to one branch or another.
Enlistment bonuse will vary greatly, depending on job, length of comittment and location.
No one branch is smarter than the other. ASVAB scores, enlistment criteria, etc., change all the time.

There so many variables out there that you can continue with this topic until the end of time. Every one will have their opinions on which branch is better and then have those guys chime in with the "when I joined or when I was in". The regulations and programs change often.
The best piece of advice I can give is :
1.Talk to all 5 branch's(5th being the Coast Guard) recruiters.
2. Take that info given by the recruiter and research it. Go to neutral sources, the internet is great. Get DOD (Department of Defense) statistics on all the branches, i.e, promotion rates, pay tables, bonuses, jobs available, etc. The stuff that Mystical referenced by DOD is what you want, its undisputable info.
4. Remember, info given by a recruiter will always be biased to their branch.
5. Heres a good one, ask for a copy of a enlistment contract to take home and read line by line. Then ask to be able to be explained whatever alarms you in the contract, trust me theres stuff in all contracts that will surprise you. I've found most recruiters wont do this, kindof tells you something.
6. Get advice from those who served/currently serving, but take it with a grain of salt, every ones experience is unique.
7. Your're lookiing for the branch that will take its time with you, prove all its claims (and not by recruiting pamplets, I'm talking regulations, etc) and answer all your questions.
8. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR DESIRE TO SERVE!!

Ive tried to be as neutral as possible. Its one of my pet peeves when people talk out their a*@, like saying the Navy is the only branch that can guarantee jobs, or your ASVAB score wasent high enough to join the USAF, etc. (UK Meyers, I've met some Loadmasters with 32 ASVAB scores before!).
Join whatever branch you feel comfortable with, but after some exhaustive research on your part.

BTW, I'm an E-7(SFC) whos been in the U.S. Army for 12 years(with prior Navy, Air Force, and Marine family members, and Coast Guard friends), was Infantry for 6 years, Recruiter for 3 years, and am currently a Career Counselor( past 3 years +).

GOOD LUCK!!!!

 

well, I am gfoing to call the USCG recruiter tomorrow, was supposed to meet the neavy guy again with some papers I fill out, that big yes/no questionaire and a questionaire for natiohnal security purposes, but if the USCG recruiter tells me he can give me a guaranteed placement in school and a guaranteed job Im gonna call that navy guy and thank him for lying. I am still gonna look into other branches befroe I go down to meps and sign fore good though.

 

The Air Force now pays 100% of collage tuition!!

 

yeah, I hear all about the college funds and everythign but the service is my way out of 4 years of school, its nice to hear that though for the people who want a degree and have no way to afford it.

 

oh, and I know there is school in the service but it is what you are gonna do, you dont have to study english and history if you wanna be an AT/ rescue swimmer

 

Outstanding post Lifer!

Xtreme-Mike: Did you ever make it to a Ranger BN? If so which one?

 

The pay charts are universal (I mentioned earlier that I thought you could qualify for them in other branches), but I still maintain that it is easier to qualify for the special pays in the Navy.

Of course, that is tempered by the fact that you generally spend more time away from home in the Navy than in the other branches (in peace time - not in the current situation).

~Bill