Allyia

We went to the garage to get inspected and emissions tested today.
with a few minor points to fix the body passed ok.
now the emissions high rpm reading was fine, the idle rpm hydrocarbon count was 790 and the limit is 220.
so I have a bunch of tune up parts to go buy...
I have a question on the PCV valve....
I have read somewhere that relocating the PCV valve to suck clean air instead of the crankcase vapor will make the hydrocarbon count go down all around.
I might be mistaken on what I read, it was a while ago BUT, since a search didn't answer this one, I'm asking!

it sounds logical to me if the PCV isnt sucking that cruddy vapor out of the engine, that thats less crud to end up going out the tailpipe to raise the hydrocarbon count.

how off base am I?
If it will drop the count a bit, I can put a new one on the hose but not plug it into the valve cover.

I have been reading a lot of conflicting facts about PCV modifications/relocations. Any input on how effective or ineffective letting it suck fresh air is to performance, passing emissions tests and MPGs?

94x4

Allyia, there is soo much on this topic that it would take the better part of the night to repeat.

Please try the "Search" feature again and type in PCV, o'kay ?

kyle_22r

well, where do you want the crud to go? stay in the engine, or get burned off?

Allyia

I want it not to go out the tailp[ipe and register as a high count on the test machine...after the test I'll want it sucked out and burned off.
lol

oh, I'm still picking through posts from a PCV search... I aint finding much on this spacific question but I will keep looking.

superjoe83

replace the pcv and change the oil, might as well give it a good tune up, plugs, wires, cap and rotor, possibly a o2 sensor if it has a lot of miles on it, hydrocarbons are unburnt fuel, how does the engine idle? rough? smooth? high? low? hydrocarbons are produced when there is a misfire in a cyl. or if the mixture is so rich it cant burn it (which is not your problem because i assume that you passed on CO) or if the mixture is very lean, the spark wont ignite it, what was you co2 reading?

Allyia

CO; idle-> tested .42, limit is 1.20 2500rpm-> tested .39, limit is 1.20
HC; Idle -> tested 754 limit is 220 2500rpm-> tested 130, limit is 220

we retarded the timing and that pushed the reading back to about 100 for the idle HC, but before he could run a second test the emissions machine brke down (lucky me maybe)
before you say well just back off the timing heres why I didnt.... when you put the timing at 8 BTDC, it really runs terrible. yes, i fully intended to let him restest it with this setting but as I said the machine broke down so we couldnt.
I had to put the timing back where I had it for it to run well and normal, which is about 3 inches on the pully past 12BTDC, the last number on the timing marker. you can turn it back to 5 or 8, but it pops and has no power at all.

my guess is someone didnt put something back right somewhere and the time mark is off, it shoudlnt run good that far advanced. it doesnt ping or knock on its present setting, and has good power. Set it by the marks and its a basket case.
but it does meter on the machine a passing reading.

it may have passed the second test that way... but the machine gave up the ghost.

the mechanic said it shouldnt run at all that far advanced... but it does, and pretty good too. He is convinced there is something serously wrong in the engine, but it runs great that way..... I have no idea if thats bad or good. idles smooth, drives and has great power too.

anyway I have to put $150 in parts&labor ito it to qualify for an exemption IF it fails again, so since it needs a tune up and an oil change, nows a good time to do it.

what would cause the time marks to be so off ahead and it run fine and strong that way?
I'm off to do a search for that but feel free to post an answer anyway.
lol

Allyia

yes 3 am I am still awake. good thing I dont have to work this week.
I decided to turn on the lights outside and do some checking.

I took out #1 plug.
set the time mark on the pully to 0.
pulled the distributor cap.

now, when the mark is on zero, #1 is UP as far as it goes, the rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire.

When I was younger, I used to play with my brothers as they were working on their cars, big ford engines, very basic no computers involved. I know [I think lol] that when the #1 piston is at the top, the time mark is on zero, and the rotor is pointing to #1 wire.....

the base time is right where it should be.

so this means the time mark being so far advanced by the light means it is really @18 to 20 BTDC, for it to run "right".

I'm just a simple hick, but that really sounds like trouble if thats where its running the best.

I have a headache I need tea and sleep... night all.

oh sorry this thread drifted off its topic title... oops.

jimbo74

they dont make you run on a dyno... ah... lucky people......

Allyia

oh yeah one more thing... *yawn*

I pulled all four plugs, they are all clean and look the same. No oil, no damage, they look as good as new.
if it was advanced to far I think the plugs would show more wear and damage?

no dynos.... yet. give them time. lol

2ToyGuy

Just a thought, by an admitted mechanical idiot (as a mech I'm a fantastic radar tech... ):Could the cam timing be off by a tooth on the timing chain? Seems to me to get it to work at all, let alone well, you'd have to have the timing way off if the valves aren't open/closed at the right times...
If it were me, and it's not, thank goodness, but if were, I'd pull the valve cover and check the cam timing relative to the dist/timing mark. If you have a valve open/closed when it should/shouldn't be, that may be your whole problem. Possibly.
ANd now I'll sign off, before I "vague" myself into non-existance

94x4

I'm in agreement with 2ToyGuy, in that i also think that it's the cam, i.e., either being a tooth or two off, or, you've got a performance camin there and the timing needed to be advanced to handle it.

Another thought would be: Do you have an adjustable cam gear ?

Allyia

this threads taken a whole new topic it seems so if a mod can adjust the title that might help someone looking for this stuff... lol

ok, the cam thing occurred to me too, and I have to say no one really knows without taking it apart. the owner said he has had other 22re's in these trucks and this truck out performed them all power wise, so MAYBE.... someone modified the insides.
I will have to check as a last resort.
I have been reading in the searches here I did how to reset the computer and reset the base timing, by shorting the two plugs, te1 and e1 on the diagnostic plug...
now... here is a picture, a nice macro close up and as you see there is no TE1 slot. there IS an E1 slot. so if someone can shove me in the right direction on that one? The Haynes manual just says te1 and e1, and it says on "late models"...

[IMG][/IMG]

I don't understand how the computer can physically reset the timing when I have put my hands on and seen #1 up pulley on zero and rotor pointing dead on #1 plug, but I am open to learn it can...
If it hopped a tooth on the gear wouldn't it run weird? at any setting?

when I get the jumper plug #'s thing straight in my head I will try to reset the time that way.

if not that, the valve cover needs a minor leak stopped so i will pull that off and see where that leads.
[but it runs so nice... so quiet I forget its running, and smooth too.]

2ToyGuy

It's really easy to check the cam timing. Take the valve cover off and just look at it. The timing chain gear, which is right at the top front of the engine with the valve cover off, should have a dot on it, that should be at about the 1130 position when the timing mark on the crankshaft pully is at 0*. Since it's keyed, the gear should always be correct relative to the cam. The valve cover is also very easy to remove. Check the manual. A couple of vacuum lines, a few nuts, and BINGO!, off it comes. We're talking less than 5 minutes...The valve cover gasket set, including new halfmoons and valve cover nut grommets shouldn't cost any more than about $10.00, even at the staelership.
To reset the computer, just pull the EFI fuse in the interior fuse box, located above the driver's side kick panel. Leave it out for 30 seconds (at 68*F, longer for higher temps, per the FSM ) and put it back in. Or, alternatively, pull the negative battery cables, same time constraints. Once again, easy stuff.
To make the computer stop adjusting the timing while it's running, on the other hand, jumper the B+ to the IG-. This is to check to see that the comp is adjusting the timing correctly. It's also the only way to know where the distributor is really timed, as at all other times, the ECU is adjusting the timing, depending on a lot of different parameters, including engine speed, temp, throttle position, and so on.
I don't know what the E1 terminal is for, off the top of my head, but normally, during troubleshooting, you jumper the B+ to different other terminals to see the effect, which will tell you what/where the problem is, or to take you to the next step of the troubleshooting tree. The B+ is the +12vdc supply from the battery (Battery+). I do recall theat the Fp is the Fuel Pump, when you jumper it it makes the fuel pump run no matter what the ECU is telling it. But I don't recall the other ones off hte top of my head.
Try this site for more info. Great site...

PirateFins

Here is 1 key question for you? What year is the truck? And is it a California Emmisions model?

My 92' 22re has a TE1 on the diagnostics plug. If yours is an earlier year it could be different. Don't go sticking pins into things that might be catastrophic to your ECM. Also the main EFI fuse is located in the engine compartment fuse box, but disconecting the battery for about a half hour is better. The computer does advance the timming with the engine running that is why you need to short the signal to get a true base line (no cpu advance), kind of like pluging the old vacum advance port in older cars when doing timing.

Edit went out and looked at my truck and the TE1 pin is located on my truck where T is on yours.

Allyia

now you say jump the b+ to the ig-....


so.... why does everyone post jumping the e1 and te1 to stop the computer from adjusting?

I dont wanna torch my puter.... :cry:

I liked cars better when there was no computers.


edit; ok I see because its older and a wee bit different...its an 88. I think I will skip it so I dont fry the computer.
the battery was disconnected for 2 days while I fiddled with the starter early this week.

2ToyGuy

Newer trucks, that's the ones to jump. On our older ones, it's the B+ to IG-. Won't torch your comp, I promise .




You can me if I'm wrong





Oh, yeah, the EFI fuse is INSIDE in our older trucks, in the engine compartment on the newer ones.

94x4

Damn it, woman! Get in there, yank the valve cover off and tell us what you find.

Allyia

ok, I'm gonna try it.

jumper ig- and b+....

94x4

Uh, o'kayyy......, but I was talking about pulling the valve cover off and taking a look at the cam, not jumpering out the diagnostic plug to reset the ECM, which can be done by merely pulling the EFI fuse found inside your cab, as 2ToyGuy advises.

Allyia

well that didnt do anything... it still advances when you give it gas, and the jumpers didn't have any effect in the idle.
I did reset the time back to 8, and took off the jumper.
hit the gas, it bogs out and pops thru the intake.

advance it back where it was and it has excellent response and idles quietly.

I guess I have to get dirty and take off that valve cover.... sheeze.
[it runs fine... my brain says leave it alone, but of course then I wouldn't be able to sleep wondering whats under there.]

I'll have to go to the parts store and get a gasket set for that.... first.
stay tuned.