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This isn't the diagram I was hoping to find. The one I was hoping to find clearly illustrated that the motor can't spin until the solenoid has kicked the gear all the way out, the same lever that kicks that gear out has the contact that connects the big wire, this spinning the motor. It might not be as clear in this diagram, but I think "contact assembly" might be the area where that happens, where the big and small wire are close to each other.
this is important, because without contact from that big wire, the motor can't spin at all. And in that starter illustrated in that diagram, corrosion or resistance on the big wire would never allow it to just spin. The gear would have to be kicked out far enough to contact the big wire in order for it to spin at all. Weak connection through the big wire at that point would result in clicking and not turning the engine over at all. The gears would engage, but no free spinning of the starter motor would be possible.
This turns you back to investigating the relationship between the gear of the motor and of the ring gear of the flywheel. Hopefully you can check on this without removing the transmission, if you have already done so.
Last edited by zombie_stomp; Feb 21, 2016 at 09:36 PM.
that's what I was thinking. starter runs fine out of the motor. Clearly pushes out and spins. There's got to be something hinky with the way the block and trans lined up.
believe it or not, it's actually easier for me to just pull the block again instead of dropping the trans. Mainly because i'm working by myself in the sharpest gravel drive I've ever seen and it's much easier to use the hoist to lift the block than to use a floor jack and wood blocks to drop the trans.
I'm a little to the point of frustration with the whole thing at the moment, but I'm sure by the time the weekend gets here, I'll be ready to bang my head against it again.
A quick search and I find 7 out of 10 times you have a spin no engagement it was faulty wiring/ relay problem
But clearly the starter wont spin unless the gear kicks out? Thats false.
Last edited by SwVa_1stGen; Feb 22, 2016 at 01:20 AM.
A quick search and I find 7 out of 10 times you have a spin no engagement it was faulty wiring/ relay problem
But clearly the starter wont spin unless the gear kicks out? Thats false.
I was curious if these starters would or would not. I was under the impression they can't but i also find it hard to assemble an engine with this kind of alignment issue. I have my starter laying out and can test this theory later
I was curious if these starters would or would not. I was under the impression they can't but i also find it hard to assemble an engine with this kind of alignment issue. I have my starter laying out and can test this theory later
I have a schematic at home that shows how to test resistance from battery to one leg on the relay, and from that same leg test resistance to the starter.
Too high resistance you'll get the spin no engagement.
Testing off the engine with jumper cables eliminates the bad wire and wont show whats happening through the starting circuit
I'm looking though the fsm now. The easiest test here would be to hook the starter straight to battery while on vehicle and see if the motor turns. If it does then it is definitely electrical.
Edit. I still don't see how is possible to spin the starter without it engaging. It appears to be 100% mechanical. Once the solenoid makes the switch the starter spins which causes or to protrude and engage.
I do however see that If the polarity to the stater is reversed that it could spin backwards. Is it possible his is spinning backwards thus not allowing the gear to pop out
Last edited by 92ehatch; Feb 22, 2016 at 05:30 AM.
I'm looking though the fsm now. The easiest test here would be to hook the starter straight to battery while on vehicle and see if the motor turns. If it does then it is definitely electrical.
Edit. I still don't see how is possible to spin the starter without it engaging. It appears to be 100% mechanical. Once the solenoid makes the switch the starter spins which causes or to protrude and engage.
I do however see that If the polarity to the stater is reversed that it could spin backwards. Is it possible his is spinning backwards thus not allowing the gear to pop out
Toyota starters aren't 100% mech. It takes power to engage
I'm guessing the easiest way to check if it's corrosion in the main power (battery to starter) wire would be to hook up my 2 gauge jumper cable directly to the battery and see if it has enough juice to turn the motor over.
that would at least eliminate my idea that the power wire may be corroded and not allowing enough amps to flow.
that doesn't assess whether or not the much smaller wire (from the main wiring harness) is functioning properly though.
the more and more I think about this the more I think it may be an alignment issue moreso than and electrical
Toyota starters aren't 100% mech. It takes power to engage
I was speaking internally.
The smaller wire that gets power from the ignition through the relay powering the solenoid or what they call the magnetic switch.
That solenoid completes a circuit with the larger wire powering the coil thus driving the starter motor. Also the solenoid moves the starter gear outward
I consider that mechanical. The electrical portions are simply powered coils.
This is splitting hairs at this point.
I agree op should jumper the starter straight to battery. If the motor doesn't turn he assembled something wrong and must separate the block and Trans. This we can all agree on.
However it is still super hard to understand how it could be assembled wrong. You can't put the flywheel on backwards. The plate only goes one way. I don't think you can even install the starter upside down. I would love some pictures with the starter removed to see the flywheel and where the block and Trans meet
Last edited by 92ehatch; Feb 22, 2016 at 12:36 PM.
I'm guessing the easiest way to check if it's corrosion in the main power (battery to starter) wire would be to hook up my 2 gauge jumper cable directly to the battery and see if it has enough juice to turn the motor over.
that would at least eliminate my idea that the power wire may be corroded and not allowing enough amps to flow.
that doesn't assess whether or not the much smaller wire (from the main wiring harness) is functioning properly though.
the more and more I think about this the more I think it may be an alignment issue moreso than and electrical
The only wire you need to apply 12v to is the smaller wire. The other larger wire is connected straight to battery and is circuit is competed via the solenoid
Was working on a little bit of the bumper design today. I'm planning on having my local kinkos use their plotter printer to print out what the "sheet cutout" would look like (minus the tabs and slots) so I can simply spray glue the sheet to a piece of masonite. From there, I'll cut out all of the components (with a band saw or jig saw) and use duct tape to piece them together to get an idea of how the parts fit the vehicle in a quick and cheap mock up. I want to do do this, so if there are any changes needed, or geometry that needs to be changed, I can do so now, before I pay a bunch of money for lasers to blow through some steel.
Because I'm going to use a local place to laser cut this out, I'm designing the components to be tabbed and slotted so the entire thing fits together like a puzzle (we use tabs and slots for locating purposes a lot at work). Along with some minor support gussets to help give it strength, this method will allow me to quickly tack the entire thing together without having to construct a jig or make 1000 measurements and adjustments on the fly as I'm building it, while still coming out with the overall shape I needed.
Tabbed and slotted laser-cut plate design so I won't need a jig to fit it together and keep a consistent shape
working on maximizing sheet layout so I can potentially get the front and rear bumper out of one 4x8 sheet of steel (tabs and slots not shown) This doesn't take into account the side rock sliders and potential upper sheet metal parts for a roof rack / valence.
Last edited by joelsmithdesigns; Feb 24, 2016 at 03:29 PM.
Nice work on the bumper, that's a good idea doing the tabs and slots. RBX did that on his front bumper build and it looked like it really helped hold everything in place while he tack welded it together. Can't wait to see the finished project come together!
Upgraded the wire from the battery to the starter to 4 gauge. Also swapped out the battery terminals and upgraded the ground as well. Nothing. Same starter spinning. Changed out the starter...Same thing. It's getting plenty of power. Something has to be mis-aligned. Going to pull the block again to see if I can't figure it out.
Got the trans unbolted...radiator out and fan and belts off. Ac, power steering, and alternator off as well as the exhaust. Ready to pull the block again and see if I can't figure this out. Sadly, that's as far as I got. Had to help my brother with some built in cabinets and electrical work for their nursery.
I'll try to get this diagnosed this week if possible
dude, I feel your pain. sometimes with these its the small stuff. just from the info provided I would agree that its an electrical issue rather then a mechanical one. check your wiring and mainly the plugs , if the shaft isn't engaging its defiantly a wire probelm
Feb 21, 2016 | 09:32 PM
