Flygtenstein

Thanks for the info Jeff. I need to get on the search a little more here so as to pan out some of the new options.

I believe there should be no more than 10 people on a trail like Chinamen's and similar. This creates a need for more trails or a need to modify my believe.

I think it is important to have a town near by for eating or hotels if people are interested.

The middle of August is perfect in my mind. Should time out regardless of where my life is.

That being said, there is still a lot of appeal in Buena Vista for me, not to mention the proximity to Denver. I would be sort of bummed cutting Chinamen's and Iron Chest off the list.

rwmorrisonjr

Ahh, I might be out there for that this year for work, so I could make it for a day run. But I might have my Explorer or a rental 4x4, so please don't hold that against me.

Flygtenstein

I had some time to think about the Dillon/Silverthorne area today and suppose that we ought to stay ought of Buena Vista. I hope to hit those trails anyway, so we can get on whenever.

In the Dillon area, we could do as follows.

Hard trails: Holy Cross, Spring Creek, no idea

Moderate: Wheeler Lake, Red Elephant Hill/Bill Moore Lake, no idea

Scenic: Webster Pass, no idea

I really want to go above the city to Cleveland rock this year. That would be good for Friday. Spring Creek is short and pretty easy, so we could stomach a larger group on there. I have never been all the way down to Bill Moore Lake, but RE hill is doable with a locker IIRC.

I have consulted Trail Damage, but what are other good sources for trail info?

I am hoping for a hybrid of good trails and new faces with some oldies in there too.

Newdad

4x4trails.net has a few trails listed for Summit county. I'd say if there are going to be a lot of new people coming who are looking for easier trails then you could throw in McCallister Gulch/Ptarmigan Pass again. From Dillon you could access the loop from Shrine Pass and avoid a lot of driving. You can get to Holy Cross that way, too. There's also Mosquito Pass a little further south of Wheeler. Easy, but a good rocky trail. I sure hope I'll be able to join in this year.
-Michael

Albuquerque Jim

Would this area make Holy Cross Closer? Would Chinaman's be too far?

Bighead

You might want PM Darren. I asked him that same question and he sent me several sights that covered trails in CO. If I can find the list I will forward to you also.

Flygtenstein

Chinamen's, Iron Chest and Carnage will be too far from Dillon, like a couple hours. Wheeler and Holy Cross will be closer. There is the Old Dillon Inn though that has some killer food and a friend of my folks used to run. That is worth something to me.

I will hit up Darren. He seems to have been everywhere.

Darren

I really don't have much to add. The two main online resources are TrailDamage.com and 4x4Trails.net, as have been mentioned, with the former being the best. Other than that, everything is covered in the Wells and Massey/Wilson series, which I'm sure a number of locals own.

That being said, the only additional trail that comes to mind near Dillon would be Mt. Bross, which is the highest road in North America (14,172'). I would rate it a "3," so it's just a smooth dirt road. Still, not a bad gig at all. The summit is a huge flat area and provides views to two other adjacent 14ers, Lincoln and Democrat. The entrance is just south of the Wheeler entrance and starts out of the small town of Alma.

Actually, there is one other trail option that starts out of Montezuma, which is Santa Fe Peak. It's another easy one. However, there is not a lot of room for parking or being able to turn around a group of rigs on this one-way road, so I wouldn't include it if you don't have to.

Michael is right about including Ptarmigan/McCallister if additional trails are needed.

I, too, would highly suggest a future jam being held in the Crested Butte area. It really would be the next logical choice. Is there anything challenging in that region? Not really. The toughest only rates a 6. Stock rigs could run everything. The trails would fill up a three-day weekend nicely. Most of them lie right next to the Maroon Bells-Snowmass Wilderness, so you know you're seeing some of the best scenery in the state. But, if people like running the same stuff over and over, year after year, that's fine, but I think there's more to Colorado than Holy Cross or Chinaman.

The Boulder area would also be fine, but would you really want to deal with the weekend crowds when you already have plenty of vehicles on the trails? That's the main reason I avoid that area even when I go solo!

I won't be attending this year's jam, myself, as I will be on a nice, long vacation at that time. I hope everyone who makes it has a great time. No doubt it will be another cool event that will be organized by great folks.

Jake94

How about Leadville? Close to Shrine Pass/ Camp Hale network of trails, Colse to Holy Cross and with in striking distance of both Summit county AND BV trails. Wheeler Lake could even be combined with Mosquito Pass for a day of wheeling.


Just my $.02, Jake.

Flygtenstein

Thanks Brian and Darren. I will do some more research with the new resources. Leadville is an awesome place, but I cannot think of a good camping place there off the top of my head.

As I see it, CO4RJ is at a crossroads. The second year, at Ouray, we had numbers and mod levels that were conducive to going as one group on mostly scenic trails. Now, it seems like there is too broad a range and just too many people to have us all on scenic trails.

My goal is to wheel tough stuff, but I think it is important to hang with new folks and do somewhat scenic stuff. I will try to resolve my doubts and firm up plans and places.

Jake94

Humm...Just off the top of my head, Camp Hale ( I think it's run by the Vail or Eagle Co. Parks Dept now and a lot of Lotto $$ has been spent on upgrades). Twin Lakes State Park (Ditto on the Lotto $$). I'm sure there are a few "K"amp grounds in and around Leadville.

Jake.

Mojo_Risin

We would be very excited to do the silverthorn area - there is a huge network of trails in the montezuma area that Anna & I really enjoy - 4wheeling and scenery wise.

For a harder trail (or at least piece of a harder trail you could do this rock garden section off of (is it middle fork of the swan?? - jaderunner knows this best) here's 2 pics....


Also, please think about including Radical Hill as a moderate trail - it's got some rocky sections - some tipy shelf road and a lot of the times a mt. goat family hangin around...



Here's the report: http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php?id=10

Also there is redcone.... (not my pic)


my pics.

Jeff the marmot

Just some more brainstorming, trying to help fill in some gaps of the ideas...
I didn't even consider Iron Chest anymore since it had been graded flat for a year or two. I just did a search at Colorado4x4.org and found just one post where someone said that the mining work was done and they re-built the rock garden in the trail. That post was on Oct 4th, 2004. Woohoo, the description sounds AWESOME!!! He says it's harder than it was when we did it 2 years ago. For comparison I remember I drove the rock garden in 15 minutes uphill 2 years ago. That guy posted:Since we've done Old Chinaman's Gulch the last couple years, it would be cool to do Iron Chest as a hard trail instead since it's now available and hard once again. It's a long drive from Dillon to there. You'd only want to make that drive once (i.e. either Iron Chest or Chinaman's). If there's still time in the day, then explore Grizzly Lake, which shares the same trailhead.

Regarding more trails to be run from the Dillon area:
We should definitely run Radical Hill, Saints John trail(s), and Glacier Ridge as one day for the easier/scenic crowd. It starts right there by Keystone and dumps you out at Breckenridge.

The bottom portion of Georgia Pass is an option (an off-shoot) where there's that rock garden that's somewhat of a challenge. It's just moderate. It's near where the Glacier Ridge trails go down toward Breckenridge.

Another moderate trail day could be a loop over Kingston Peak, then to Jenny Creek, and back over Yankee Hill Road to I-70. This loop basically starts and ends near St.Mary's Glacier. Might be a pretty full day. No more than 10.

Another moderate trail loop would be starting near Keystone and going south over Webster Pass, then come back north over Red Cone. Depending on time, you could then go up Radical Hill and back down the Saints John area and back to camp. Beginner off-road drivers should NOT do Red Cone. Other than the section where you drive off the cliff at the top, the trail isn't too difficult. It could be combined with people who just want to do Webster Pass and watch others do Red Cone.

Spring Creek rock garden is still hard enough that you definitely wouldn't want to have more than 10 vehicles in it. It can take a long time to get a big group through there, especially if there's breakage. It should be considered a hard trail to make sure people are prepared for it.

If you need another easy/scenic trail, then you might consider making a loop from Vail Pass along Shrine Pass, Ptarmigan Pass, and McCallister Gulch. There's also an off-shoot or two in the area. But it's pretty easy. A small number of our group did that 2 years ago at CO4RJ.

Jake94

Did a little research. Camp Hale is run by the USFS, there is a 21 site CG and a Large Group site.

Twin Lakes has 2 CGs and no Group Sites.

Neither place has the mod-cons of the Chalk Creek CG.

Jake.

Jake94

Clean out your in box Doooood

Jake.

Flygtenstein

I just cleaned and am now stationed at the PC to get to the bottom of some places and ideas.

Thanks Brian.

Flygtenstein

There are a crap load of trails in the moderate to scenic class out of a Dillon/Silverthorne base. I think we could fill Holy Cross and Spring Creek for two days of hard stuff, and then have the last day be mixer stuff.

I am trying on Dillon/Silverthorne camping stuff. That seems to be the rub.

If we camp in Leadville, we could still hit Holy Cross, Iron Chest, Chinamen's, Carnage and a load of fresh moderate and scenic stuff.

Jeff the marmot

Uh, and just who is going to do Carnage at BV? There's a few ORS-related guys that are capable of it. Maybe one or two others will come forward with highly modified rigs. I can think of at least 2 locations along it that lend itself toward either an exo or massive body damage possible.

Flygtenstein

I was thinking/hoping ORS guys would do it. I for one have really enjoyed those guys coming down to hang out and seeing what really built trucks can do.

My impression though is that the most vociferous want this to be a predominantly 3rd Gen crowd with 33's and lockers or less.

After sleeping on it, it sounds like the moderate to scenic people are sick of the trails out of Buena Vista while the high end moderate to hard people are pleased to keep trying new lines.

There is more to CO than hard trails but I continue to hold onto the delusion we cannot all run scenic trails together in mass.

Albuquerque Jim

I like scenery, but I come up there to hang with friends and wheel harder trails with people I trust.

Honestly, I do not care if I run old or new trails.