Pretty much, but I think those types of off-roaders are very few and far between. At least the married ones anyway

 

It's so true!!! :cry:

 

If a stock FJ comes with A TRAC, then I may have to conceed that fact. If it does not, then I give it to the 4runner based on it's added front end flex, better wheelbase and thinner track width.
So you conceed my point that they are building something for soccer mom's to buy but they added a couple things to try to snag wheelers too.

 

I woudnt say that an FJ is for soccer moms, they definately wouldnt need an e-locker, but I would say that it is a less "buildable" rig then those of past generations. The FJ is probably is more rugged stock then my 3rd gen(although I wouldnt trade it based on mostly looks, and buildability).

Hey, I really can't complain, and neither should anyone else though
"If you got it wheel it!"

Which is more then I can say for 99% of the SUVs out there that never see mud. I'm just soooo happy to see trucks with mud on them now, that I try my best to observe the differences, but embrace the intent.

 

Just for record FJ stock doesn't come with A-TRAC. Mine didn't however all wiring is there just a switch is needed if you have the rear locker which I did. So A-trac was ~$45 not bad for what I got!

I'm far from soccer mom but no I don't do any hardcore wheeling anymore. My '88 was the most modded, then '93, now the FJ. I like still being able to go play when I want and take some light trails and have a fairly capable rig but also like having 500 mile a week daily driver. I'll add to it just because it's in me but you won't see me doing the FJ SAS. While on the trails look around the '07s you see won't be Tahoes or Explorers.

You're right the Rubicon out of the box is more capable off road, but it isn't a Toyota. If I wanted to start doing a lot more wheeling I would actually probably choose a rig like Intrepids and build it up. The early 4runners have always been my favorite, but I wouldn't build it AND drive it to work.

 

My point is not that the Rubicon is better, my point, which has been proven by everyone saying, "I DD mine with just some light weekend wheeling" is that Toyota made a vehicle that appealed to commuters, soccer moms, etc, and then tossed a locker at it and then pretended like they had made a rig for us (wheelers), when in actuality, they didn't. My comments on the Rubicon is that Jeep did what Toyota SAID they were doing, but unlike Toyota, Jeep actually did it. Would I trade my Yota's for a jeep? No way. Do I wish Toyota had done for it's off road enthusiasts what Jeep did for theirs? HELL YES!

Since stock FJ's don't come with a locker or A TRAC, I DEFINITELY say that, as Churnd specified, stuffing the largest tires under both, with minor trimming and no other mods, an '85 4runner would outwheel a new FJ.

I am amused because with so many people disagreeing with me, noone can prove me wrong and not only that, but most everyone admits to some extent that they agree.

As to my original comment that they are cheap, money-making, grocery getter, rip offs (of the originals).
-I still see that as being true, cheap, because they are half plastic, I mean really, who makes a PLASTIC gas tank skid on an "off road" vehicle?
-Toyota did it just to make money and not to cater to it's off road enthusiasts, as Churnd said:
"They're just doing what they know will make them money."
-Grocery Getter, as proven by everyone who uses them as a DD/commuter and noone has spoken up to defend their hardcore wheeling of the FJ.
-Rip off of the original, based on the fact that it is not as rugged and buildable as the original, in fact, the only thing that it has in common is the name and some styling cues. As JHupp mentioned:
"...but I would say that it is a less "buildable" rig then those of past generations. "

 

I think that is wishful thinking, especially if you got an e-locked 3rd gen.

 

I think you are still missing the point here though.
Stock FJ also means rear locker and A Trac.
It can be had heading out the door from the dealership.

Back in 85 the 4Runner or the truck could not be had out the door with a rear locker or A Trac, so hands down, going off a showroom floor, the FJ is still the winner.

I conceder my rig stock, as I have not modified it one bit.
The rear locker and A Trac are just option packages you can order.

Back in 85 there were no such options, you had to go aftermarket.

Now go watch that video I linked you to yesternight

 

Nope, no e-locker here, 2001, I guess parts wise, they do share a lot of similarities, I wouldnt trade my 4R for an FJ, but I do wish I had a rear locker in conjunction with ATRAC.

Also, from what I hear, isnt the FJ an interference engine? If so, that would really kill it for me. I am pretty sure it is a timing chain, so if it is, it would probably be an interference engine. I would never want an interference engine in a truck, you never plan on popping a chain, or messing with the timing, but hey, it could happen, and I would hate to have an interference engine if it did, youd be SOL out on the trail.

 

It is the same 4.0 V6 as found in the new Tacomas and the 4th gen 4Runner.
Timing belt, non interferance.

 

Toyota still has to see profit on any vehicle they make and catering to a small niche group of hardcore off roaders would just hurt the bottom line. Jeep can have the Rubicon because it's a huge part of their image and w/o it their whole reputation would suffer and they would lose alot of loyalists by not having the classic Jeep.

Toyota still has to cater to the people that will use the FJ as a DD but it's nice they offer some real off road options and are definetly strongly marketing the FJ as off road capable. Even commercials for the H3s aren't aimed at the off road crowd.

It is more capable right out of the box than the original which is nice that you don't need to throw more money at it to go off road since alot of us don't have extra money for mods that you can already finance into your monthly payments.

Argue it's shortcomings all you want,Toyota has a hit with the FJ.

 

Very well put!
Since mine has to ferry me back & forth to work each day to be able to affored the payments on it, it is a daily driver, and part time weekend warrior last.

 

I think you guys are all missing the point, I am NOT saying that the FJ is crap, I am NOT saying that an open/open rig can outwheel a locked rig, I am NOT saying that it doesn't serve a purpose, and I am NOT saying that you can't take it off road. What I AM saying is that it is not the amazing off roader that Toyota claims it is, it still has all the weaknesses of all the other vehicles in the Toyota line, plus a couple extra, and no advantages over them.
I agree with X-AWDriver, they can't cater to the off road niche, thus, they invented another mom mobile and tossed in a locker and pretend like it is the best wheeler ever. So far, noone has managed to disprove that point. You guys just don't want to admit that because you like them. I freely admit that a stock '85 wouldn't wheel incredibly well on it's stock open diffs and stock 225's. But Toyota didn't market the '85 as the best wheeler ever, they DID with the FJ. You guys are arguing value compared to other rigs, which is not really my point although I did use other rigs as a comparison. Prove to me that the FJ Cruiser IS NOT a mom mobile with sliders and a locker as options and I will admit defeat.

Corey, I am not comparing a locked, A TRACed vehicle to a stock '85, I am comparing a base model, since they are equipped the same.

 

Mommy mobiles don't have interiors as bare as the FJ's, nor do they have approach and departure angles that are close to as good. Watch a newer 4 Runner and an FJ take the same trail. You're expecting a solid axle and 1 ton running gear out of a vehicle for it to be a competent 4x4 so it seems to me. Yotas don't come like this, even the older ones. You'll break Birfs and all kinds of other ลลลล once you go with bigger tires, yes IFS is generally weaker but everything has it's flaws, and other than Jeep you're not going to see and rigs with solid axles available from the showroom floor. That time has past, get over it.

 

Not being able to spell birfield doesnt help your argument. And from what I've seen, if you put 38s on a mini-truck axle, then of course your gonna screw it up. I've never seen this happen, even with 35s on an old 20r with stock axles.

By the way, your FJ is a 4th gen 4runner with a locker, and sliders, and better departure/approach angles. So I guess you could call it a mom mobile, but hey, so is basically every SUV on the market now, but like I said before, if you got it, wheel it, who cares! Just dont try to play this thing up likes it's all badass, when there are stock trucks that will walk over it, and plenty more stock trucks that are way more buildable.

No offense but this really reminds me of the noobs on speedlounge who buy stock SRT4s, and are all of a sudden are real mean street racers. Real trucks/cars are built, not bought.

 

I think the term "stock" is being confused with "factory options". Generally speaking, a "stock" vehicle is one without any aftermarket accessories... in other words, one you can get straight from the factory. If you're talking factory options, on the other hand, then you mean a "baseline" vehicle up to "fully-loaded".

Get your terminology straight!

 

For the record, you are wrong again, Yotas DO come like this and older ones did too, for example, check out the Australian version of a Land Cruiser 100 series.
You are also wrong about my expectations, I am expecting is that if Toyota is going to market a vehicle as a wheeler, they would take some time to actually beef it up enough to live up to that title. I bet they could come up with some new technology to beef up a a weak IFS front end, but they didn't. I would figure they could make a rear axle that wouldn't blow on stock tires, but they didn't, I would expect that if they are marketing it as a wheeler, that there would be AT LEAST an option for upgraded tires, rather than the only options being street tires, but there isn't, I expect that they would not cheap out and give you a plastic gas tank skid, but they don't.
I don't think that standards should change just because they are reached less and less. To say, "this is the best wheeler that toyota will make us, thus it must be the best" is ludicrous. If the time of solid wheelers from the showroom has passed, then perhaps Toyota shouldn't market it like they are...hmm...

2003 4runner:

Running ground clearance 9"
Approach angle (degrees) 31
Departure angle (degrees) 24
Breakover angle (degrees) 28

2007 FJ Cruiser:

Running ground clearance 9.6 in.
Approach angle 34 degrees
Departure angle 30 degrees
Breakover Angle 27.4 degrees

So the only major difference between the newest off road god and the family hauler is the departure angle.

 

Apologies, that is what I meant, I should specify BASE, regardless, that is not my point.

 

I was starting to wonder if I was the only one that saw it this way.
For the record Will, I am not taking this personally or making this personal. It seems to me that on a Toyota truck forum, we should be able to discuss the merits of Toyota's new vehicle offerings honestly without getting pissy.

 

I'm not getting fired up, it just sounds to me like you're denouncing the thing as some god awful piece of crap, in reality no it's not an offroad monster, nor will it be but out of the box it'll out wheel most other stock stuff on the market.
When I say Toyota won't offer straight axle stuff I mean in the US market. Comparing vehicles that are marketed here to ones in Europe/Australia is moot since we can't easily access them.