When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Been having intermittent starter issues, just bought the car 2 weeks ago, PO had planned to replace starter motor however he had bought the wrong part. He let me keep the part, so he wasn't lying.
Anyway, I have put around 300mi on the truck since I got it, most of the time I would have to pump the gas to get it to idle then it would run like a top. Other times, I would clutch-in and without pumping the gas it would fire right up. I chalked it up to needing to do a starter relay mod like RAD4x4 wrote up, plus its got a 32/36 Weber carb, and knock out the RAD4x4 mod this weekend. Alas, she didn't make it to Friday.....
Today, drove truck onto base no issues. Drove to a meeting. Left meeting, started truck, whining sound and radio won't come on. "Ok" I thought. "Maybe I just need to drive it some, and it'll iron itself out...the truck is 30 years old"
Drive along about 100 meters, and pull off into another parking lot. Still a little whiny, and radio hasn't come on. Kill motor. Try to start. No clicking, no turnover, but radio and dummy lights come on.
Grab a few stragglers in the parking lot and get them to help me bump start it. Fires right up, drive along another 1000 meters, start to smell plastic burning....
I pull over, leave motor running, open hood, and find my starter appears to be on fire!!!!!!
A good samaritan saw me rush to kill the engine, and was right there with a full water bottle. Crisis averted. Abandoned the truck at my shop, looking at the damage after it cooled down it looks like the boots over the wires are what caught on fire.
Carnage pictured below. What parts do I need to order? Whole new wiring harness? New starter motor for sure? Pictures are of the lower passenger side of the engine, is this the starter?
I think the whining sound was me taking the starter motor up to 3-4k rpm but I don't know why it did that....Any help is much appreciated!!! I really love this truck. First post.
Not sure exactly what happened. Could be your large positive cable (starter cable) had internal corrosion. If you have the original cables, you can upgrade to quality, larger cables. Using quality, larger cables can lower your voltage drop and give you more robust starter action. Don't just assume the problem is the starter. There is another problem that occurs less frequently, that is when the starter continues to run after the key is removed from the ignition switch. That could cause a fire also. Building a safer starting circuit might save you from burning your truck up. I'm using a heavy duty remote ford solenoid to switch power to both terminals on the starter solenoid (the large and small positive terminals). Also I have an ATO fuse holder mounted under the hood in the patch wire that energizes the remote solenoid. It is real easy to pull the ATO fuse out quickly. Maybe mounting a small fire extinguisher in the truck would be a good idea. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w123...-dont-let.html
Last edited by chuckross1957; 03-26-2016 at 10:10 PM.
Starter contacts welded closed starter keeps drawing power the strange noise you heard.
Things got hot plastic and rubber parts melted.
I would venture the starter is able to be rebuilt.Most often better then a rebuilt of unknown quality.
A new Positive cable may as well do the big three
New ground cables
Your doing the ignition switch fix so replacing the wire to the solenoid can be done as well. Rather then just splicing in a few inches where it was damaged .
Unless you have more melted wires you have not found yet.
Here are some pictures of what I took out today. Can I still order the harness/factory battery cable? I'd like to keep it as OEM as possible. OR, what should I go ahead and upgrade now that I am addressing the issue?
Wyoming9, you may have already answered much of my question. What is an ATO? Do you have any pictures chuckross? Thanks again gents.
this black pump-looking device had nothing connected on the backend, what the heck is it? Made the starter extremely easy to remove once i popped it off the small metal clip as shown.
So I need the name or part number for the long harness, is that the starter relay? Reason I want to replace it is because the there 'was' a plastic clip which had a connector that went to the starter. While that cap appears ok, it was directly next to the fire. Also, at the last green tube contact clip has an exposed kink in it, so I think that a new harness might be worth its weight in gold.
here the inside of the connector i'm talking about in the last photo. the contact looks like it has some greenish corrosion to it. plastic clip is intact and came out smoothly from the melted male end that was in the starter.
Here is the starter. The boot which went over the positive cable at the starter is melted and is what caught on fire. the stud where the cable contact is held to the starter is totally loose, it looks like whatever plastic bezel which held it in place has melted. Battery cable will obviously need to be replaced.
I'm reading a lot about the intermittent starter issue. I'm not sure this was ever the case for me.
It never would go "click", it would try to turn over, but seemed to have a lean condition where I needed to pump the gas repeatedly to bring the revs to 2-3k and then it would run fine. I had to do this 8/10 times.
The other 20% of the time, truck fired up normally with one try on the ignition. Rebuilt starter is in the mail, do I need to disassemble it and do the HOTSHOT mod to it before install?
Before I started my wiring/cable upgrades, I had an incident where my starter continued to run. Mine is an 86 and it did not come with a factory starter relay, so there is no doubt that the starter solenoid contacts were sticking. If you have the starter relay, the contacts could stick in the relay causing the starter to continue running also. There are different ways to avoid problems with the starter. You can use methods that best suit your situation. For example, I didn't have a factory starter relay, so that played a part in my decision to use a remote solenoid. A lot of folks are using the hot shot relay with very good results. I'm not set up to fabricate large battery cables, but you can find good, large 5/16 lug to lug cables on line (amazon for one source). One thing that is very helpful and that is being able to fabricate (solder) smaller cables/wires, like 10g and smaller. I fabricated a 10 gauge wire with an in line glass fuse holder to go to the spade connector on the starter. Having this style of fuse holder gives me the ability to tap in to the line and manually apply positive voltage to energize the starter solenoid. Dorman 85663 and 85705 are the part numbers for the fuse holder and 10g wire. The fuse holder comes with a 30 amp fuse but I'm using a 20 amp with no problems. My truck looks a little crazy under the hood, it is an on going cable/wiring upgrade... a work in progress. I wanted to allow for future accessories and the possibility of upgrading to a bigger alternator. I still haven't added a larger cable to the alternator positive post.http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3195c912.jpg
Last edited by chuckross1957; 05-12-2016 at 02:33 PM.
Thank you for the advice chuckross. Care to expand on why you use the 10g with the fuse for the blade connector on the starter? Also, is that blade connector generic or specific to this wiring harness? That wire probably got pretty hot being next to the burning battery cable boot. What do you mean by "allows you to tap into and apply volts to the starter manually"? How is this advantageous?
You are on the right track searching the forum for intermittent starter and starter clicks as well as the starter keeps running issue. It is good to avoid these problems if you can. If you have a starter relay or the hot shot relay installed and you have an incident where your starter continues to run after you turn the ignition key to the off position... what are you going to do. So if you have the oem factory setup, you can try to remove a battery terminal by hand...which may not be that easy to do with out the right size wrench being handy. You could also try crawling under the truck to disconnect the spade connector. Maybe you could disconnect the starter relay. If it is the starter solenoid contacts that have welded closed and not the starter relay, you are going to have to disconnect a battery cable. There is more than one way to solve that concern, you could carry the right size wrench in your truck to fit the factory battery terminal, you could also install a quick disconnect switch, or use the marine terminals. I'm using the side terminal style of battery, and on the ground side I'm using a temporary terminal that is bolted to a lug cable (NOT CLAMPED!). The temporary terminal breaks easily because it is made out of lead. In an emergency, I plan on pulling the ground cable to snap the temporary terminal. I have snapped a few of them by accident, it is not that hard to do. Of course if I break it, I'll I have to have tools to replace it. But if I can avoid a fire, it is worth it. In regards to the 10 gauge fuse holder, it is in one of the photos of the remote solenoid, the wire is green and it is connected to the small "I" terminal on the solenoid. I think 10 gauge wire is a good size to use if you are making a new wire to go from your starter relay or hot shot relay to the spade connector on the starter. The female spade connector is a common size, but in this application you need a heavy duty one which is not as easy to find as a standard grade one. In one of your photos, you are holding the plastic holder for the female spade in your hand. Usually there a slot in those type of holders and a metal tab on the spade connector. You can use an eye glass screwdriver to slide in to the slot to bend the tab down and separate the two. If you have the in line glass fuse holder in this wire and your starter continues to run, you can open the fuse holder. If your starter stops running, your relay contacts have welded together, most likely. If your starter keeps running, your starter solenoid contacts have welded together. Also, if you buy an extra fuse holder, you can make a patch or test wire with it and touch the other end of the wire to your positive battery post to energize the starter solenoid. Some people make a wire to connect to the spade terminal on the starter to do this...but you have to crawl under the truck to connect it.
Last edited by chuckross1957; 03-31-2016 at 08:59 AM.
Wow Chuckross1957 great advice sir. I got the starter installed yesterday, using a 4guage 32in marine battery cable and cleaned all contacts male and female with deoxit contact cleaner. Fired up after two tries. Starter sounded like it was fine, no whining. HOWEVER, it still requires LOTs of pumping the gas to get the engine up to about 3k rpm and then it will settle into an idle. Every time I have a cold start, it usually does this. Are you running a fuel pressure regulator? I have read on here with Weber carbs you want a steady 3.5psi, any more and you run into a lean condition. Thoughts? Or could this still relate to the starter issue/wiring?
Looks like a Weber Carb and a Garret fuel pressure regulator
May have answered my own question above, but I'm inexperienced with these. Is it as simple as turning the dial, plug and play? Is there further tuning I have to do to adjust fuel pressure? Or is this the master switch?
Weber carb, not sure if its the 36/32 or a 38...How can I know for sure?
What is this piece? connected to vacuum hose, it doesn't seem to do anything.....
Is this the standard install procedure for one of these? How has it been done better, sans zip ties? Thank you yotatech.
I turned the dial up to 3.5, started up right away for me, idled without pumping the gas at all, then sputtered out after about 3minutes. Now I try to start it and I think it may be flooded...starter sounds like its cranking but engine won't turn over. > At least its at my house now though.
Neighbor worked for toyota, says that the timing chain skips a tooth and has starting issues, than when it skips another tooth it has problems like what I'm dealing with now. Looks like i need to get a tow...
Update: turns out it was out of gas. Guy put 3 gallons in and said come pick it up. Fixed a vacuum leak that was causing lean condition. He didn't touch the timing chain, basically refused. He said he'd fix the gas guage...says when he manipulates the ground for the guage sender the guage won't move, that the problem is not my sender but the guage itself....in total he wants to charge me $400 for a vacuum leak and 3 gallons of gas!!!!! No way at 70$ an hr did he spend that much time, right? What should I say to him tomorrow???
Just pay the man. Trouble shooting takes time. You tried to figure it out yourself but didn't have the skills. You took it to a professional and now are complaining that the man who was capable of doing something you weren't is charging too much for his time. Wow, just suck it up and be glad you can drive your truck again. That's the cost of owning a vehicle.
Think of how much time he charging you for, and now how much time have you put into it so far, either searching the web, talking to people for ideas or under the hood staring at things with a confused look on your face. I bet you've already put more time into it than he did. Give the man his money and don't complain, he earned it and has to pay his bills too.
03-24-2016, 02:34 PM
At least its at my house now though.
