"Hydrogen Booster" Setup
Jul 14, 2008 | 10:38 PM
#101
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From: Little Rock, Ar
Thanks, I will send the pictures within the hour.
Good point. I live at 5300 feet most of the year, so I'll be able to tell you how it does. I am visiting Idaho right now where it is 99 deg. F so I will also be able to provide data running at high temperatures.
That gives me an idea. How about putting in a variable resistor(s) to change the sine wave output [fuel ratio] of the chip? It could be a potentiometer adjusted so that the extremes are faked 12:7 and 18:7 ratios. Come late August, I could build a prototype and test it using the equipment in the I&C Lab on the campus.
Thanks for all the great info guys! I'll have some pics posted today.
Good point. I live at 5300 feet most of the year, so I'll be able to tell you how it does. I am visiting Idaho right now where it is 99 deg. F so I will also be able to provide data running at high temperatures.
That gives me an idea. How about putting in a variable resistor(s) to change the sine wave output [fuel ratio] of the chip? It could be a potentiometer adjusted so that the extremes are faked 12:7 and 18:7 ratios. Come late August, I could build a prototype and test it using the equipment in the I&C Lab on the campus.
Thanks for all the great info guys! I'll have some pics posted today.
Jul 14, 2008 | 11:04 PM
#102
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,248
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From: Lake City, Fl
I had a guy come to me at work today who was doing this to his Jeep... and 06 Jeep! Practically new! Not sure why, but whatever... I'm curious to see the results of this man; keep us updated!
Jul 21, 2008 | 03:52 PM
#105
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Red3slow. By the looks of the pictures you are using galvanized metal it will work for a day or so but it will start corroding in minutes. Stainless steel is the only metal that works. in a hho system. it has to be st304 graded steel. to make sure you have 304 stainless put a magnet to it and see if it will stick. If it sticks to it it is not 304. Good luck with it keep on trying they work. I gaind 4mpg in my 95 land crusier
Jul 21, 2008 | 07:16 PM
#106
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From: Butte, MT
Yup, figured that out pretty fast. Got some stainless steel plates now and am rebuilding the unit. Thanks for the heads-up. What do you suggest for spacing of the plates? I've heard 3mm.
Jul 21, 2008 | 07:54 PM
#107
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From: Little Rock, Ar
Red3slow. By the looks of the pictures you are using galvanized metal it will work for a day or so but it will start corroding in minutes. Stainless steel is the only metal that works. in a hho system. it has to be st304 graded steel. to make sure you have 304 stainless put a magnet to it and see if it will stick. If it sticks to it it is not 304. Good luck with it keep on trying they work. I gaind 4mpg in my 95 land crusier
Jul 22, 2008 | 10:15 AM
#108
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From: Butte, MT
Wombosi
Jul 22, 2008 | 09:37 PM
#109
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From: Far Southern Alberta
Maybe something worth pointing out here:
Given the operating temperatures of the motor I dont think hydrogen seeping into the metal structure will be an issue.
Also if you're worried just shut the unit off for a few minutes at startup and before shutting the vehicle off.
Interesting concept overall anyways.
Given the operating temperatures of the motor I dont think hydrogen seeping into the metal structure will be an issue.
Also if you're worried just shut the unit off for a few minutes at startup and before shutting the vehicle off.
Interesting concept overall anyways.
Jul 25, 2008 | 09:10 PM
#110
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Butte, MT
Ok so here is the link to all the pictures, and they all have explanations. This is currently what I have, and am still working on the chemistry of the water. The project may be on hold for awhile as I am starting a job which requires me to ben in the desert six days a week.
http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?i...6&id=724200133
Thanks for all of your help so far guys. Let me know if the link doesn't work.
http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?i...6&id=724200133
Thanks for all of your help so far guys. Let me know if the link doesn't work.
Jul 26, 2008 | 12:33 AM
#111
I've been enjoying this thread since it started.
Wombosi, your link don't work..("must log in"). Please register with Photobucket.com and link the pics here...It's quick and very easy to do.
Wombosi, your link don't work..("must log in"). Please register with Photobucket.com and link the pics here...It's quick and very easy to do.
Jul 26, 2008 | 01:07 PM
#112
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Butte, MT
Good call on photobucket; I had no idea they made it free.
Block-off EGR plate for the exhaust manifold.
The EGR input cannibalized for the HHO input on the intake manifold. Some people have mentioned that this may be too much vacuum for the unit to efficiently produce hydrogen.
10 kilo-ohm resistor put in place of EGR sensor to prevent the engine throwing codes.
The actual unit, a 12" long 3" diameter black pvc pipe. The wingnut plug makes an excellent seal.
Inline air-filter for catching whatever water gets past the bubbler - 5 micron particle size.
Pretty much the whole hydrogen setup as seen from top-view, before the bubbler was installed.
The truck.
P.S. One of my friends at A&S metals hooked me up with some sweet aluminum tubing (for the electrodes). He gets pretty much factory direct price, or the price per pound of the metal.
Block-off EGR plate for the exhaust manifold.
The EGR input cannibalized for the HHO input on the intake manifold. Some people have mentioned that this may be too much vacuum for the unit to efficiently produce hydrogen.
10 kilo-ohm resistor put in place of EGR sensor to prevent the engine throwing codes.
The actual unit, a 12" long 3" diameter black pvc pipe. The wingnut plug makes an excellent seal.
Inline air-filter for catching whatever water gets past the bubbler - 5 micron particle size.
Pretty much the whole hydrogen setup as seen from top-view, before the bubbler was installed.
The truck.
P.S. One of my friends at A&S metals hooked me up with some sweet aluminum tubing (for the electrodes). He gets pretty much factory direct price, or the price per pound of the metal.
Last edited by Wombosi; Jul 26, 2008 at 02:04 PM.
Jul 26, 2008 | 06:19 PM
#113
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Plainfield, IL
Well I have just about read every post.
From a conservation of energy standpoint this should not work, however, there are other interatactions at play.
Hydrogen functions much like ethanol in that it is a very good octane booster. This can either let the timing be more advanced, or in the case of a 3.0 which often runs open loop due to the fact it is often called upon to produce near full power, not retard its own timing due to knock.
In both cases the energy density is less than gasoline. Mixing a little hydrogen to increase octane could in some engine actually have a significant increase in MPG. Heck, it will improve cold start emissions and cold start engine performance in diesels.
Anyway, you need dyno tests to isolate the effects of this mod. You can ramp up the dyno testing to work the engine in any part of its load range, and I would personally do a wide range of tests to see these effects, but you need the control from dyon testing to really see how this mod affects performance over human and environmental factors.
frank
From a conservation of energy standpoint this should not work, however, there are other interatactions at play.
Hydrogen functions much like ethanol in that it is a very good octane booster. This can either let the timing be more advanced, or in the case of a 3.0 which often runs open loop due to the fact it is often called upon to produce near full power, not retard its own timing due to knock.
In both cases the energy density is less than gasoline. Mixing a little hydrogen to increase octane could in some engine actually have a significant increase in MPG. Heck, it will improve cold start emissions and cold start engine performance in diesels.
Anyway, you need dyno tests to isolate the effects of this mod. You can ramp up the dyno testing to work the engine in any part of its load range, and I would personally do a wide range of tests to see these effects, but you need the control from dyon testing to really see how this mod affects performance over human and environmental factors.
frank
Jul 26, 2008 | 07:45 PM
#114
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Butte, MT
Well I have just about read every post.
From a conservation of energy standpoint this should not work, however, there are other interatactions at play.
Hydrogen functions much like ethanol in that it is a very good octane booster. This can either let the timing be more advanced, or in the case of a 3.0 which often runs open loop due to the fact it is often called upon to produce near full power, not retard its own timing due to knock.
In both cases the energy density is less than gasoline. Mixing a little hydrogen to increase octane could in some engine actually have a significant increase in MPG. Heck, it will improve cold start emissions and cold start engine performance in diesels.
Anyway, you need dyno tests to isolate the effects of this mod. You can ramp up the dyno testing to work the engine in any part of its load range, and I would personally do a wide range of tests to see these effects, but you need the control from dyon testing to really see how this mod affects performance over human and environmental factors.
frank
From a conservation of energy standpoint this should not work, however, there are other interatactions at play.
Hydrogen functions much like ethanol in that it is a very good octane booster. This can either let the timing be more advanced, or in the case of a 3.0 which often runs open loop due to the fact it is often called upon to produce near full power, not retard its own timing due to knock.
In both cases the energy density is less than gasoline. Mixing a little hydrogen to increase octane could in some engine actually have a significant increase in MPG. Heck, it will improve cold start emissions and cold start engine performance in diesels.
Anyway, you need dyno tests to isolate the effects of this mod. You can ramp up the dyno testing to work the engine in any part of its load range, and I would personally do a wide range of tests to see these effects, but you need the control from dyon testing to really see how this mod affects performance over human and environmental factors.
frank
Yes, I agree with you on every point. I would venture to say the HHO is just a broken down hyrdrocarbon (minus the carbon of course) that improves efficiency but actually costs more energy.
I'm not very familiar with the dynamometer. All I've heard is that it costs money to test. Personally, I'm not looking for power, I'm just going to test the mpg gains on the freeway. I travel 500 miles to and from Idaho, and the driving conditions and fuel mileage are very consistent. I will use that last 3 years of information as the control to see if fuel economy improves. And yes, I do have gas receipts still with the mileage written.
But for now, my 4Runner is just sitting because the Z24 gets 32 mpg here in town.
Jul 26, 2008 | 08:45 PM
#115
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
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From: Petersburg va.
Hi y'all I've been looking at this for quite a while myself. Sure are a lot of people making a lot of claims. Makes it tough to seperate the fact from fiction. Here are a couple of link's I like. I certainly wont make any claims of being a brainiak, the only thing I haven't got figured yet is the cpu trickery. As soon as I understand that I think I'm gonna try one of these. Wombosi good work glad to see you fighting the good fight!!! Look at the bubbler and check valve installations I think you should incorporate these into your design for safetys sake.
Jim
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/do...lyAndBoyce.pdf
This was talked about in a previous thread. What I mean by my fact and fiction remark. Wonder how many people fall for this kind of hype?
http://www.preignitioncc.com/ps/index.htm
Jim
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/Smack.pdf
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/do...lyAndBoyce.pdf
This was talked about in a previous thread. What I mean by my fact and fiction remark. Wonder how many people fall for this kind of hype?
http://www.preignitioncc.com/ps/index.htm
Jul 27, 2008 | 09:32 AM
#116
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 3
From: Plainfield, IL
Howdy Frank, welcome to the thread.
Yes, I agree with you on every point. I would venture to say the HHO is just a broken down hyrdrocarbon (minus the carbon of course) that improves efficiency but actually costs more energy.
I'm not very familiar with the dynamometer. All I've heard is that it costs money to test. Personally, I'm not looking for power, I'm just going to test the mpg gains on the freeway. I travel 500 miles to and from Idaho, and the driving conditions and fuel mileage are very consistent. I will use that last 3 years of information as the control to see if fuel economy improves. And yes, I do have gas receipts still with the mileage written.
But for now, my 4Runner is just sitting because the Z24 gets 32 mpg here in town.
Yes, I agree with you on every point. I would venture to say the HHO is just a broken down hyrdrocarbon (minus the carbon of course) that improves efficiency but actually costs more energy.
I'm not very familiar with the dynamometer. All I've heard is that it costs money to test. Personally, I'm not looking for power, I'm just going to test the mpg gains on the freeway. I travel 500 miles to and from Idaho, and the driving conditions and fuel mileage are very consistent. I will use that last 3 years of information as the control to see if fuel economy improves. And yes, I do have gas receipts still with the mileage written.
But for now, my 4Runner is just sitting because the Z24 gets 32 mpg here in town.
You might actually find you get both. Often more efficiency can come along with more power but not always.
Dyno testing will cost some dough, not sure how much, but every smog shop in CA uses them so they are pretty common these days if you just want to look at power. I guess what would really cost is that you need measure fuel efficiency over a drive cycle which takes some sophistication and is therefore typically expensive. You need the fuel meter and computer equipment to tell you how close you are to the trace.
Your normal driving though will tell you how well it works though.
Frank
Jul 8, 2009 | 06:14 PM
#118
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I have 2004 runner V6. I got the hho setup and everything..... One problem the sensor that I have to install the ECU enhancer onto has 5 freaking wires coming out of it ..... which one is the "signal" and which is "signal return"????? Please help... Picture are even better!!!!
4RunnerH2O
4RunnerH2O
Jul 10, 2009 | 06:25 PM
#119
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
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From: Petersburg va.
Hey guys
My buddy Dave and I are working hard on trying to make some money out of hho generators. Dave bought a kit from an outfit in Ga. It was installed on an 2005 dodge 1500 PU with 110,000 miles in February of this year. The truck has an onbord factory milage computer that displays between the visors. Sure most of y'all have seen these optional doodadds. The truck is equiped with an 4.7 liter V8. Dave installs satelite internet hook ups travels all over central Va. Prior to the installation the truck reported an average milage around 10.6 MPG. After installation it went to 15.2. Just put in a well for the o2 sensor that pulls it out of the stream. Now the average is hovering at 18.3. Yeah no dyno numbers. Just using the onboard computer the truck is reporting these numbers. Its backed up by averaging the fuel purchase and miles driven. I agree that using all the science available this shouldn't be happening. Can't explain it, but sure tickled to see it. Also haven't done anything to try and fool the engine management comp. That comes next. My 91 22 Re will be the next test mule. Wont be able to do any fancy testing there either, but will do the same math. Average the gas purchased and miles driven both before and after. Don't see how you can refute the numbers. Gotta say I'm excited.
Jim
My buddy Dave and I are working hard on trying to make some money out of hho generators. Dave bought a kit from an outfit in Ga. It was installed on an 2005 dodge 1500 PU with 110,000 miles in February of this year. The truck has an onbord factory milage computer that displays between the visors. Sure most of y'all have seen these optional doodadds. The truck is equiped with an 4.7 liter V8. Dave installs satelite internet hook ups travels all over central Va. Prior to the installation the truck reported an average milage around 10.6 MPG. After installation it went to 15.2. Just put in a well for the o2 sensor that pulls it out of the stream. Now the average is hovering at 18.3. Yeah no dyno numbers. Just using the onboard computer the truck is reporting these numbers. Its backed up by averaging the fuel purchase and miles driven. I agree that using all the science available this shouldn't be happening. Can't explain it, but sure tickled to see it. Also haven't done anything to try and fool the engine management comp. That comes next. My 91 22 Re will be the next test mule. Wont be able to do any fancy testing there either, but will do the same math. Average the gas purchased and miles driven both before and after. Don't see how you can refute the numbers. Gotta say I'm excited.
Jim
Jul 12, 2009 | 06:19 PM
#120
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Butte, MT
Getting the O2 sensor out of the stream works very well. I only have one O2 sensor on my exhaust. Spark plug spacers work well, and explaining to the Autozone people why I only wanted one was a job in itself. I'm in the middle of an HHO redesign, so hopefully I'll have some more news posted.
Good to hear some good numbers, thanks for the post.
Good to hear some good numbers, thanks for the post.
