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I brought my truck ( 1980 4x4 Pickup, Longbed, 20r Engine, 4speed) in to a local autoshop to get a list of repairs needed (shop called it a "used car inspection"). My goal is to learn to wrench by tackling these repairs myself. I'd like to get some input as to the order of importance of the repairs - in what order should I go at it? Are there repairs that are more important, will cause damage if not addressed quickly, etc.? Further - what's the difficulty level of these repairs?
I've already replaced the Rear Brake shoes/drums/hardware. I've also identified a leak in the cab coming from the clutch push rod boot area.
As far as skill level, I'm pretty novice. I have an Original FSM from Toyota which I used to do the brake job. Have experience changing alternator in an 88 toyota pickup and 90's celica, as well as radiator replace in the celica - all as a helper, and that was about 18 years ago. I'm pretty confident I can tackle the nuts and bolts stuff, but the electrical and exhaust stuff are new to me (the exhaust places I called can't find the exhaust downpipe from the exhaust manifold, so said that's something I'd have to source myself).
My truck is a 1980 4x4 Pickup, Longbed, 20r Engine, 4speed Manual with Weber-style carb.
#1 I would be worried about any shop that can't spell "brakes" so it's a great idea to do as much of this as you can.
#2 It would help us to know how bad the leaks are and how bad the rusted exhaust is.
The toughest items (for a novice) are going to be the transfer case leaking, which is pretty vague, and the gear box leaking, also not much help, and the left front axle seal (solid axle right?) try packing the knuckle with grease first.
Exhaust can be a pain in the but unless you are replacing everything with bolt in parts and keep in mind that exhaust bolts tend to break. If it is really bad you might want to fix it soon so you don't choke!
The lights no working can get you pulled over, so if that is a concern fix them first, easy stuff!
If you have the right tools there isn't anything on this list that you can't do, it just might take a lot of time and lots of question/answer for help.
Pick a starting point and check here before you tear into it, make sure you have all the parts you will need first.
show us some pictures of your ride and some shots from under the hood (or the ground where you park) so we can see how bad the leaks are. good luck!
#1 I would be worried about any shop that can't spell "brakes" so it's a great idea to do as much of this as you can.
#2 It would help us to know how bad the leaks are and how bad the rusted exhaust is.
The toughest items (for a novice) are going to be the transfer case leaking, which is pretty vague, and the gear box leaking, also not much help, and the left front axle seal (solid axle right?) try packing the knuckle with grease first.
Exhaust can be a pain in the but unless you are replacing everything with bolt in parts and keep in mind that exhaust bolts tend to break. If it is really bad you might want to fix it soon so you don't choke!
The lights no working can get you pulled over, so if that is a concern fix them first, easy stuff!
If you have the right tools there isn't anything on this list that you can't do, it just might take a lot of time and lots of question/answer for help.
Pick a starting point and check here before you tear into it, make sure you have all the parts you will need first.
show us some pictures of your ride and some shots from under the hood (or the ground where you park) so we can see how bad the leaks are. good luck!
First, I agree with AK, especially re #1. then . . .
Originally Posted by MojoSlim
I've also identified a leak in the cab coming from the clutch push rod boot area.
This is a symptom of a leaking clutch cylinder - eventually it will stop leaking at about the same time you have problems working the clutch. Then, as AK alluded to, the lights wont matter as you will already be off the road.
Thanks for your replies. I'll get some pics for you guys tomorrow.
Originally Posted by akwheeler
#1 I would be worried about any shop that can't spell "brakes" so it's a great idea to do as much of this as you can.
#2 It would help us to know how bad the leaks are and how bad the rusted exhaust is.
The toughest items (for a novice) are going to be the transfer case leaking, which is pretty vague, and the gear box leaking, also not much help, and the left front axle seal (solid axle right?) try packing the knuckle with grease first.
Exhaust can be a pain in the but unless you are replacing everything with bolt in parts and keep in mind that exhaust bolts tend to break. If it is really bad you might want to fix it soon so you don't choke!
The lights no working can get you pulled over, so if that is a concern fix them first, easy stuff!
If you have the right tools there isn't anything on this list that you can't do, it just might take a lot of time and lots of question/answer for help.
Pick a starting point and check here before you tear into it, make sure you have all the parts you will need first.
show us some pictures of your ride and some shots from under the hood (or the ground where you park) so we can see how bad the leaks are. good luck!
Your #1 also had me dubious about letting this "40 years of experience, specializing in Toyota and Subaru" shop keep the truck past the 1 hour that they had it.
#2 - Leaks - So far, nothing that has left a noticeable spot on the ground where it sits. I've had it for a few months and driven it about 50 miles.
Exhaust - The front pipe has a visible 3-4"inch long hole about 1/8" wide. The last 4-5" of the tailpipe is disintegrating.
Originally Posted by L5wolvesf
First, I agree with AK, especially re #1. then . . .
This is a symptom of a leaking clutch cylinder - eventually it will stop leaking at about the same time you have problems working the clutch. Then, as AK alluded to, the lights wont matter as you will already be off the road.
Pics will help a lot.
Thanks. I was thinking as much. Keeping an eye on fluid levels and will replace the clutch master cylinder soon. Would you recommend I change the slave cylinder as well?
While leaks can be safety issues, fire loss of control(braking, shifting), they are typically just added expense due to having to refill before the service intervals.
Get it clean and dry first to properly identify these leaks.
Address the brakes fully, you've got new pads how about the rotors (warped rotors are a source of pulsing).
Get the lights operational. It's not just a traffic ticket it's a safety issue if other drivers don't know what your intentions are. These are typically just blub replacements, and something required to pass title transfer in lots of states.
(Yeah I quit reading halfway through Alaska's post, it's bed time!)
#2 - Leaks - So far, nothing that has left a noticeable spot on the ground where it sits. I've had it for a few months and driven it about 50 miles.
Exhaust - The front pipe has a visible 3-4"inch long hole about 1/8" wide. The last 4-5" of the tailpipe is disintegrating.
So, if it ain't broke don't fix it, as a shop doing a used car inspection or buyer's survey if they find ANY leaks they are going to recommend you repair it since they want the work. If your engine isn't using a bunch of oil or leaving a trail behind it I wouldn't bother fixing long term leaks.
I personally prefer to take my exhaust work to a shop, it costs more money, but I don't have a bender and it often turns into a pain in the butt even with new made to fit parts.
Keeping an eye on fluid levels and will replace the clutch master cylinder soon. Would you recommend I change the slave cylinder as well?
I just did my slave and did the hose (since it was the 30+ year old original far as I know) while I had things apart. If you can easily get your hand on the hose see if it is wet or soft (when someone pushes on the clutch). Once you have confirmed the leak, given the age it would not be a bad idea.
Also, bleeding a clutch system seems to be more of a PITA than brakes for some reason. I wouldn't want to do it twice. Once I had the new slave and hose in I used a syringe to fill the hose and slave as much as possible. Then just keep doing the normal bleed procedure.until it works properly.
I just did my slave and did the hose (since it was the 30+ year old original far as I know) while I had things apart. If you can easily get your hand on the hose see if it is wet or soft (when someone pushes on the clutch). Once you have confirmed the leak, given the age it would not be a bad idea.
Also, bleeding a clutch system seems to be more of a PITA than brakes for some reason. I wouldn't want to do it twice. Once I had the new slave and hose in I used a syringe to fill the hose and slave as much as possible. Then just keep doing the normal bleed procedure.until it works properly.
^^ this is a good way to bleed a clutch IF you are starting with new components. Pushing fluid up from the bottom slowly may mean that you have no air in it the first time. But with an older slave cylinder all of the contaminants have settled to the bottom of the system... AT the slave cylinder, and you don't want to push any crud back up to the master cylinder. The whole idea of bleeding at the low point of the hydraulic clutch system or the brake system is to flush out bad fluid and any grit that may be in the system through a path that won't cause a failure instead of back to the master cylinder where it will damage the bore.
Know that on Toyota vehicles the use of parking brake keeps the rear brakes adjusted.
Also know that the parking brake bellcranks (if equipped) tend to seize up and make your rear brakes drag! they will also overheat, warp the drum and pulsate. So check occasionally to make sure the parking brake is fully releasing and keep using it to keep it from seizing up and to keep your rear brakes adjusted. Or don't ever use it and manually adjust your brakes.
I sure hope you bought this knowing what you were getting into .
Know that on Toyota vehicles the use of parking brake keeps the rear brakes adjusted.
When getting a new to me vehicle I start at the ground and work up tires brakes suspension .
Although if your getting exhaust fumes in the cab that might be good to get fixed .
When changing Clutch Hydraulics do both the Master Cylinder and slave think of the rubber hose.
Happy wrenching!!
I had an idea what I was getting into. Bought the truck knowing it was pretty rough with the intention to teach myself this stuff. I've been doing ok with no primary vehicle for 4 and a half years (walking/biking to work - wife has a car for grocery and misc errands), so I don't mind having the truck out of commission while fixing things for a weekend or so at a time.
Thanks for the tips on the parking brake and advice on the clutch replace too.
While leaks can be safety issues, fire loss of control(braking, shifting), they are typically just added expense due to having to refill before the service intervals.
Get it clean and dry first to properly identify these leaks.
Address the brakes fully, you've got new pads how about the rotors (warped rotors are a source of pulsing).
Get the lights operational. It's not just a traffic ticket it's a safety issue if other drivers don't know what your intentions are. These are typically just blub replacements, and something required to pass title transfer in lots of states.
(Yeah I quit reading halfway through Alaska's post, it's bed time!)
Hey. Thanks for taking the time to reply. The backup lights and license plate light are on this weekend's punch list. Hopefully should be easy enough to get through and an easy win.
Found a self car wash place that has oil/water separator and will give the underside a power wash and clean around the visible leaks near the timing chain cover, oil pan, and valve cover for better assessment of ongoing leaks.
I just did my slave and did the hose (since it was the 30+ year old original far as I know) while I had things apart. If you can easily get your hand on the hose see if it is wet or soft (when someone pushes on the clutch). Once you have confirmed the leak, given the age it would not be a bad idea.
Also, bleeding a clutch system seems to be more of a PITA than brakes for some reason. I wouldn't want to do it twice. Once I had the new slave and hose in I used a syringe to fill the hose and slave as much as possible. Then just keep doing the normal bleed procedure.until it works properly.
Hey, thanks for the tips from experience on changing the clutch master/slave cylinders and hose. I'll definitely keep it in mind when I get this done.
^^ this is a good way to bleed a clutch IF you are starting with new components. Pushing fluid up from the bottom slowly may mean that you have no air in it the first time. But with an older slave cylinder all of the contaminants have settled to the bottom of the system... AT the slave cylinder, and you don't want to push any crud back up to the master cylinder. The whole idea of bleeding at the low point of the hydraulic clutch system or the brake system is to flush out bad fluid and any grit that may be in the system through a path that won't cause a failure instead of back to the master cylinder where it will damage the bore.
Originally Posted by akwheeler
Also know that the parking brake bellcranks (if equipped) tend to seize up and make your rear brakes drag! they will also overheat, warp the drum and pulsate. So check occasionally to make sure the parking brake is fully releasing and keep using it to keep it from seizing up and to keep your rear brakes adjusted. Or don't ever use it and manually adjust your brakes.
Continued thanks for your advice in this thread. When I did the rear brakes, I noticed that the rear passenger side parking brake bellcranks were seized - I pulled it to the open position and it has been stuck there ever since. That side also had a missing spring (smaller of the 2 bottom springs). The driver's side hardware was even worse - the pin/spring that held on the rear-most shoe was not attached - it was a PITA to get that drum off as the shoes were pretty wedged on there - and hardware just fell out once I pulled it off. Pulsating doesn't seem to be present any longer, and gas mileage has increased
Will add to the weekend list to remove the bell cranks, get them cleaned, unsiezed, lubed and reinstalled.
So the places I have called about the exhaust say they can't find a replacement front pipe (pictured below). I'll need to source this myself, or purchase a set of headers and they can install and do the rest (quoting around $450 before tax for the rest). I'm having a hell of a time finding this piece of pipe. I've been reading that 81-84 22R exhaust manifolds will work on my 20R. Are these claims substantiated? Not that I've found the equivalent 22R part, but it would at least open up my options a bit. In any case, I saw a video about using a shop-vac through the tailpipe to check for leaks in the exhaust system - if the leaks aren't prevalent, I may just patch those areas with repair products (Extreme Temp JB weld, clamps, etc.).
So the places I have called about the exhaust say they can't find a replacement front pipe (pictured below). I'll need to source this myself, or purchase a set of headers and they can install and do the rest (quoting around $450 before tax for the rest).
If the majority of the exhaust system needs to be replaced and you already have a "Weber-style carb" the header would be a good way to go.
But I have a question. What is a Weber-style carb? You either have a Weber or you don't. If you do which model is it?
In any case, I saw a video about using a shop-vac through the tailpipe to check for leaks in the exhaust system - if the leaks aren't prevalent,
No need for the shop vac, just start the truck and put your hand over the tail pipe. A good exhaust will build pressure, a bad one will require you to crawl under while someone else blocks the tailpipe so you can look for the leak.
^^ this is a good way to bleed a clutch IF you are starting with new components. Pushing fluid up from the bottom slowly may mean that you have no air in it the first time.
Hey AK, I didn’t put the fluid in from the bottom, but maybe I wish I could have – I’ll explain.
Access to the rubber brake hose is blocked by several items: charcoal canister, brake vacuum line and several other vac lines – all of which I moved or removed. That helped a lot. My original plan was to fill the new slave, original metal line and new rubber hose before installing them as an assembly. The problem with that was getting them in without spilling the fluid – that was just too convoluted to do. However, I was able to install (a.k.a. wrestle) the slave with metal line loosely attached together (no fluid). Then I attached the bottom of rubber hose. I then used the syringe to fill the slave/metal line/rubber hose via the open top of the hose. It may, or may not have saved some time, I not sure if it avoided much in the way of air bubbles because bleeding still took "too long".
So the places I have called about the exhaust say they can't find a replacement front pipe (pictured below). I'll need to source this myself, or purchase a set of headers and they can install and do the rest (quoting around $450 before tax for the rest). I'm having a hell of a time finding this piece of pipe. I've been reading that 81-84 22R exhaust manifolds will work on my 20R. Are these claims substantiated? Not that I've found the equivalent 22R part, but it would at least open up my options a bit. In any case, I saw a video about using a shop-vac through the tailpipe to check for leaks in the exhaust system - if the leaks aren't prevalent, I may just patch those areas with repair products (Extreme Temp JB weld, clamps, etc.).
09-19-2018, 03:34 PM
