V6 transmission and transfer case
03-15-2011, 07:26 PM
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V6 transmission and transfer case
Okay I'm a total noob to toyotas.. I have been a ford guy my short life, and always liked the look of the 1st gen 4runners. well got a steal of a deal on one, perfect body, not so good interior, and bad head on the 3.0. well I got the head fixed it's driving now yay! And I love it future plans are a 3.4 swap, 3 link/panhard front and 63's rear along with more goodies. Fabrication is easy.. Learning Toyota sofar not good.. Question is what transmission do I have it's the 5 speed so is that the 150f or 151f? And I want dual cases stock front 4.7rear with twin stick... But for the life of me I can't find any info that shouts out to me read this.. What are the benefits of running dual cases, what cases should I run and what is a better setup via gear wise? I understand the twin stick lucky me so any info help would be appreciated...
03-15-2011, 08:30 PM
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I plan on keeping this runner around for awhile, if not pass on to my kid.
Anyways, so I will need to get rid of the chain driven case, then get 2 gear driven cases to run dual cases? Then a adapter plate to mount to my 150f?
03-15-2011, 09:41 PM
#4
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YES
tranny --> V6 adapter -->first case(referred to a "crawlbox") --> dual case adapter(preferably Marlin Crawler) --> rear transfer case (optimally with 4.7 gears)
3.4 swap, dual cases here.
This will be your new toy store. DO NOT read this site if you have available credit on your cards!!
tranny --> V6 adapter -->first case(referred to a "crawlbox") --> dual case adapter(preferably Marlin Crawler) --> rear transfer case (optimally with 4.7 gears)
3.4 swap, dual cases here.
This will be your new toy store. DO NOT read this site if you have available credit on your cards!!
Last edited by dntsdad; 03-15-2011 at 09:43 PM.
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MaK92-4RnR (11-18-2019)
03-16-2011, 08:41 AM
#5
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88runnasr5,
Welcome to YT! Sounds like you've found a really nice Runner! The 3.slow, I mean 3.0, in my opinion was released in a bit of a rush to compete with the more powerful Nissan Pathfinder. The 3.4 seems to be more compact than the 3.0, burns cleaner, and produces 21% more power. It also features an electric Idle Control Valve (ICV), like the 2.7-liter 3RZ-FE, that makes it much harder to stall while wheeling. Additionally, TRD offers a Supercharger for it
hahaha GET ER DONE!
This is a very good question! You actually don't have to run dual cases to benefit from really low t/case gearing, so let's first discuss the benefits of running lower gearing.
Lower gearing makes off roading a much, much more pleasurable experience. It gives you increased control & traction while also reducing stress on your truck and drive train. You won't have to slip your clutch as much, you won't have to use your brakes as much, you won't be bouncing around out of control with high wheel speed while accidentally running into trees or rocks. Running super low gearing is in my opinion the most environmentally friendly modification available.
In brief, the way super low gearing helps is by greatly increasing the torque in exchange for wheel speed. So now you can literally drive your truck up a very steep hill without needing to input any throttle at all. Your truck will have enough torque even at 800 RPM idle speed to continue moving. This is why you'll no longer need to rev the engine while slipping your clutch, and because you will be moving so slow, you'll have a vast amount of time to observe and control the direction and motion of your truck which is important to prevent denting or worse, rolling over.
Another great feature is what super low gearing can do for braking. If your final drive ratio is 200:1, this means that your engine has to rotate 200 times for your tires to rotate once. Now think about the flip side to this: In order for your tires to rotate once, your engine has to rotate 200 times. Therefore, when your truck is faced down hill, it is incredibly difficult for gravity to accelerate the truck due to the magnified engine compression braking. In many cases you'll find that you actually no longer need to use your brakes at all!
With low, low gearing, the truck moves so slow that it becomes very easy to control its every movement with minimum driver input required.
I am sorry if I am preaching to the choir. I wanted to explain this so that I can get to the question of what options are available
As for options, you can choose to run a single case with a very low gear set, or run dual cases.
Single Case Pros: This is the most cost effective way to gear down. You simply remove your stock chain drive case and replace it with a gear drive case that has a set of 4.70:1 low range gears. You don't have to worry about shifter, drive line, or cross member modifications. It's all plug & play, add gear oil, go wheeling!! It is the lightest option for Rock Crawling.
Single Case Cons: Once you shift into low range, you are stuck, in very low low range. With your stock t/case you can do ~55 MPH in 5th gear low range. This is practical in case you are headed to the ski resort with snow on the road and want to use 4WD low range. But with very low gears in a single t/case, once you shift into low range, your top speed in 5th gear is reduced to ~30 MPH. Honestly this is not practical. No one would want to drive around at 5,000 rpm in 5th gear with other traffic on the road. In terms of off roading, you'll also find that on simple dirt trails, or more difficult trails that open up with flat sandy sections, you'll likely to shift into 4WD high range and use 1st and 2nd gear rather than revving your engine very high in 4th and 5th gear in low range. So it's just an annoyance, in my opinion, to be stuck with normal highway gearing or super low low range gearing.
Dual Case Pros: This is the preferred method of gearing down. You can select between two different low ranges: your stock low range or your stock low range X2. Because gear ratios are directly compounded, if both cases are 2.28:1, then combined they create a 5.20:1 ratio. So you can leave one case in high range (which is a direct 1:1 ratio) and put the other case in low range, and your truck will drive exactly how it does right now. It will be streetable in low range and you won't have to use high range for those faster sections of the trail. Then, when you approach an obstacle, all you have to do is drop the other box into low range and now you have a double-low ranged truck that provides all of the benefits mentioned above: Reduced speed, greater control, and increased traction (static friction supersedes kinetic friction). It's an option that is always at your service whenever the trail demands it. Also remember that since you'll have a 3-speed transfer case, your truck will turn into a 15-speed! Seriously, you will have 15 different forward gears to choose from whenever you need them! How cool is that?!!!
Dual Case Cons: The cons to going dual case is that it is the most costly option. You have to modify your shifter arrangement in your cab (add an additional lever), you'll have to shorten and rebalance your rear drive line, and lengthen and rebalance your front (we typically don't rebalance our front drive lines but if you do a lot of road driving in 4WD then it is required), and you'll have to do something about your cross member situation. You can retain your stock cross member, but you will need to clearance it for the longer front drive line. Usually people choose to install an aftermarket or custom dual case cross member which provides more strength and an additional transfer case mount for increased drive train rigidity and reduced stress on the engine mounts. There are many aftermarket options for this but of course it all comes at a price! Also, the dual case will add about 50 pounds to your truck, possibly more depending on what cross member you use. Your front drive line will be more exposed to rocks since it is longer.
So what to do? It is completely a user preference decision. I always recommend going the dual case route since you'll get all the hard work out of the way and it is the most flexible option giving you more gear choices. But some customers just go duck hunting and are tired of burning up their clutch every season. It sounds like you want to get pretty serious and I see you mentioned running 4.70:1 gears in the rear case (that is an awesome 4-spd case with 20 forward gears!!), so I see you are pretty much already decided on what to do in this regard, but for other readers it all comes down to what are your needs with your truck and do you want to do more work now (go duals), or more work in the future (go duals later)? I say if you go duals up front, and then later decide you want something lower, all ya gotta do is slap in a set of 4.70:1 gears and it's done!
We call the dual case + 4.70:1 gear set the "Ultimate" Crawler. This will take you to a 174:1 to 224:1 depending on your axle gearing. We feel that at these ratios your truck is virtually unstoppable, only limited by traction.
That is a lot to digest and I feel like I've rambled off point. Let me know what your thoughts are after this so we can keep the discussion going
Regards,
BigMike
Welcome to YT! Sounds like you've found a really nice Runner! The 3.slow, I mean 3.0, in my opinion was released in a bit of a rush to compete with the more powerful Nissan Pathfinder. The 3.4 seems to be more compact than the 3.0, burns cleaner, and produces 21% more power. It also features an electric Idle Control Valve (ICV), like the 2.7-liter 3RZ-FE, that makes it much harder to stall while wheeling. Additionally, TRD offers a Supercharger for it
hahaha GET ER DONE!This is a very good question! You actually don't have to run dual cases to benefit from really low t/case gearing, so let's first discuss the benefits of running lower gearing.
Lower gearing makes off roading a much, much more pleasurable experience. It gives you increased control & traction while also reducing stress on your truck and drive train. You won't have to slip your clutch as much, you won't have to use your brakes as much, you won't be bouncing around out of control with high wheel speed while accidentally running into trees or rocks. Running super low gearing is in my opinion the most environmentally friendly modification available.
In brief, the way super low gearing helps is by greatly increasing the torque in exchange for wheel speed. So now you can literally drive your truck up a very steep hill without needing to input any throttle at all. Your truck will have enough torque even at 800 RPM idle speed to continue moving. This is why you'll no longer need to rev the engine while slipping your clutch, and because you will be moving so slow, you'll have a vast amount of time to observe and control the direction and motion of your truck which is important to prevent denting or worse, rolling over.
Another great feature is what super low gearing can do for braking. If your final drive ratio is 200:1, this means that your engine has to rotate 200 times for your tires to rotate once. Now think about the flip side to this: In order for your tires to rotate once, your engine has to rotate 200 times. Therefore, when your truck is faced down hill, it is incredibly difficult for gravity to accelerate the truck due to the magnified engine compression braking. In many cases you'll find that you actually no longer need to use your brakes at all!
With low, low gearing, the truck moves so slow that it becomes very easy to control its every movement with minimum driver input required.
I am sorry if I am preaching to the choir. I wanted to explain this so that I can get to the question of what options are available
As for options, you can choose to run a single case with a very low gear set, or run dual cases.
Single Case Pros: This is the most cost effective way to gear down. You simply remove your stock chain drive case and replace it with a gear drive case that has a set of 4.70:1 low range gears. You don't have to worry about shifter, drive line, or cross member modifications. It's all plug & play, add gear oil, go wheeling!! It is the lightest option for Rock Crawling.
Single Case Cons: Once you shift into low range, you are stuck, in very low low range. With your stock t/case you can do ~55 MPH in 5th gear low range. This is practical in case you are headed to the ski resort with snow on the road and want to use 4WD low range. But with very low gears in a single t/case, once you shift into low range, your top speed in 5th gear is reduced to ~30 MPH. Honestly this is not practical. No one would want to drive around at 5,000 rpm in 5th gear with other traffic on the road. In terms of off roading, you'll also find that on simple dirt trails, or more difficult trails that open up with flat sandy sections, you'll likely to shift into 4WD high range and use 1st and 2nd gear rather than revving your engine very high in 4th and 5th gear in low range. So it's just an annoyance, in my opinion, to be stuck with normal highway gearing or super low low range gearing.
Dual Case Pros: This is the preferred method of gearing down. You can select between two different low ranges: your stock low range or your stock low range X2. Because gear ratios are directly compounded, if both cases are 2.28:1, then combined they create a 5.20:1 ratio. So you can leave one case in high range (which is a direct 1:1 ratio) and put the other case in low range, and your truck will drive exactly how it does right now. It will be streetable in low range and you won't have to use high range for those faster sections of the trail. Then, when you approach an obstacle, all you have to do is drop the other box into low range and now you have a double-low ranged truck that provides all of the benefits mentioned above: Reduced speed, greater control, and increased traction (static friction supersedes kinetic friction). It's an option that is always at your service whenever the trail demands it. Also remember that since you'll have a 3-speed transfer case, your truck will turn into a 15-speed! Seriously, you will have 15 different forward gears to choose from whenever you need them! How cool is that?!!!
Dual Case Cons: The cons to going dual case is that it is the most costly option. You have to modify your shifter arrangement in your cab (add an additional lever), you'll have to shorten and rebalance your rear drive line, and lengthen and rebalance your front (we typically don't rebalance our front drive lines but if you do a lot of road driving in 4WD then it is required), and you'll have to do something about your cross member situation. You can retain your stock cross member, but you will need to clearance it for the longer front drive line. Usually people choose to install an aftermarket or custom dual case cross member which provides more strength and an additional transfer case mount for increased drive train rigidity and reduced stress on the engine mounts. There are many aftermarket options for this but of course it all comes at a price! Also, the dual case will add about 50 pounds to your truck, possibly more depending on what cross member you use. Your front drive line will be more exposed to rocks since it is longer.
So what to do? It is completely a user preference decision. I always recommend going the dual case route since you'll get all the hard work out of the way and it is the most flexible option giving you more gear choices. But some customers just go duck hunting and are tired of burning up their clutch every season. It sounds like you want to get pretty serious and I see you mentioned running 4.70:1 gears in the rear case (that is an awesome 4-spd case with 20 forward gears!!), so I see you are pretty much already decided on what to do in this regard, but for other readers it all comes down to what are your needs with your truck and do you want to do more work now (go duals), or more work in the future (go duals later)? I say if you go duals up front, and then later decide you want something lower, all ya gotta do is slap in a set of 4.70:1 gears and it's done!
We call the dual case + 4.70:1 gear set the "Ultimate" Crawler. This will take you to a 174:1 to 224:1 depending on your axle gearing. We feel that at these ratios your truck is virtually unstoppable, only limited by traction.
That is a lot to digest and I feel like I've rambled off point. Let me know what your thoughts are after this so we can keep the discussion going
Regards,
BigMike
03-16-2011, 09:09 AM
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Wow bigmike thanks that was slot to read but alot of great info.
So if I ran with a stock geared front and 4.7 rear with twin stick rear, I would have the option of going into 2 low but only 4 low low? Sorry if that was confusing just trying to grasp this one.
So if I ran with a stock geared front and 4.7 rear with twin stick rear, I would have the option of going into 2 low but only 4 low low? Sorry if that was confusing just trying to grasp this one.
03-16-2011, 10:06 AM
#7
Registered User
Found some good comparison videos
Here is what it's like trying to wheel a 4Runner without a Marlin Crawler. Burn up that clutch wooohoooo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5i4CjzeUao
Here is an example of a 4Runner with just dual 2.28 & 2.28 Marlin Crawler cases. Notice how his RPMs are pretty high but yet he isn't moving very fast. BTW this obstacle is MUUUUUUCH more difficult than the above video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RCYx4WhJUM
And here is a 4Runner with dual Ultimate (2.28 & 4.70) Marlin Crawler cases. This is the owner's son driving. Notice how much time and control the boy has to navigate and deal with the trail. Very cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua8ooSaxNbQ
Here is what it's like trying to wheel a 4Runner without a Marlin Crawler. Burn up that clutch wooohoooo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5i4CjzeUao
Here is an example of a 4Runner with just dual 2.28 & 2.28 Marlin Crawler cases. Notice how his RPMs are pretty high but yet he isn't moving very fast. BTW this obstacle is MUUUUUUCH more difficult than the above video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RCYx4WhJUM
And here is a 4Runner with dual Ultimate (2.28 & 4.70) Marlin Crawler cases. This is the owner's son driving. Notice how much time and control the boy has to navigate and deal with the trail. Very cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua8ooSaxNbQ
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03-16-2011, 10:12 AM
#8
Registered User
Code:
4LO
|
2HI N
| |
-4HI-
Code:
LOW
|
2WD N
| |
4WD HIGH
The Twin Stick is unrelated to the Crawl Box, which is the dual case portion. So you can have 2WD high range, 2WD low range, 2WD double low range, 2WD triple low range, 2WD quadruple low range.... etcetera, depending on the number of Crawl Boxes present in the vehicle.
BigMike
Last edited by BigMike; 03-16-2011 at 10:14 AM.
03-16-2011, 11:32 AM
#9
Contributing Member
Big Mike I don't understand the need for a twin stick option with dual cases. I mean, I have dual cases and can do 2WD low without twin stick. Is it maybe just for single case driveline or double low 2WD?
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-16-2011 at 11:34 AM.
03-16-2011, 12:16 PM
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Alright that's clearning it up for me a little, I thought I understood the twin stick with duals I would have
Front case and
For the rear case. So that would allow me to put front case in 4 anything but only as long as the rear case was also in the 4 location I would have 4wheel right? So putting the rear in 4hi and front case still 4 Lo I would have a better crawl ratio on trail drivabily as I would not have to disengage the front 4low until I wanted highway speeds correct? And I'm assuming it's vise versa for 2wheel drive also
Code:
4hi
l
2hi N
l l
-4hi-
Code:
2 Lo
l l
4 N
l
Hi
Last edited by 88runnasr5; 03-16-2011 at 12:23 PM.
03-16-2011, 04:04 PM
#11
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And later,
The High/Neutral/Low portion of the transfer case is fully extracted and duplicated!
That is the whole beauty of the Toyota transfer case and why you don't see Jeeps/Fords/Chevys/Dodges/Nissans/Datsun/Daihatsus/Suzukis/etcetera with crazy low transfer case gearing. If you do, then it will be some entirely aftermarket t/case and not an OEM t/case. There is no doubt in my mind that Toyota is the only pure Rock Crawler truck. You cannot build a purely Jeep Rock Crawler, and if you did, it would be some strange unpractical monstrosity. Think about it, how many 500:1 or lower Jeeps have you seen? Or even 200:1? I am just trying to prove how cool the Toyota transfer case is.
What the Marlin Crawler does is it doubles the High/Neutral/Low section of the Toyota transfer case. Very cool! Please consider the following picture from an automatic 4Runner:
In the above picture, the first t/case shift lever with the Marlin Crawler shift knob is the "Crawl Box". This has the pattern of High/Neutral/Low. The second t/case shift lever, as you can see on the factory knob, has the "J" pattern as previously described above.
The twin stick is a device that separates two shift rails and therefore is only used on the transfer case and not the Crawl Box since the Crawl Box only has 1 shift rail. Here is a picture of a Twin Stick setup in a customer's truck:
The first t/case lever in this truck is just like the previous picture, High/Neutral/Low. The two levers at the bottom are mounted on top of the transfer case. The lever on the left controls High/Neutral/Low and the lever on the right controls 4WD/2WD. They are completely independent from one another.
I think most of the confusion comes from the fact that many people say "I have dual transfer cases" which is a very loose and incorrect term. We do not have dual transfer cases. A transfer case is a device that transfers power between the front and the rear axle (our trucks only have at most two drive lines!). Technically, you'd have dual low range reduction boxes with a power transfer unit, but it is easier to just say "I've got duals".
So the Twin Stick is mounted atop the lone transfer case, and it is a device that allows the two shift rails to be operated independently of one another.
Stock Low Range + Stock Low Range
Code:
Crawl Box T/Case Final Ratio High (1:1) High (1:1) 1 x 1 = 1:1 Low (2:28:1) High (1:1) 2.28 x 1 = 2.28:1 High (1:1) Low (2.28:1) 1 x 2.28 = 2.28:1 Low (2.28:1) Low (2.28:1) 2.28 x 2.28 = 5.2:1
Now with the Ultimate setup of using dual cases + a 4.70:1 gear set, now you can start to see where you have even more gearing options!!
Stock Low Range + Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Low Range
Code:
Crawl Box T/Case Final Ratio High (1:1) High (1:1) 1 x 1 = 1:1 Low (2:28:1) High (1:1) 2.28 x 1 = 2.28:1 High (1:1) Low (4.70:1) 1 x 4.70 = 4.70:1 Low (2.28:1) Low (4.70:1) 2.28 x 4.70 = 10.7:1
Now, if you look back at the two pictures above, can you see that the first truck can indeed achieve 2WD Low Range without a Twin Stick? All it has to do is keep the transfer case in 2WD High range and then engage the Marlin Crawler into low range. The only advantage the 2nd truck has with the Twin Stick is that it can achieve 2WD Dual Low Range. If this functionality is needed for your truck or not is purely up to you!
Regards,
BigMike
Last edited by BigMike; 03-16-2011 at 04:14 PM.
Nice work BigMike!
03-16-2011, 07:11 PM
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Please note the emphasis from my previous reply:
And later,
There are two shift rails in the transfer case and only one shift rail in the Crawl Box. For the transfer case, one rail controls 2WD/4WD, and the other rail controls High/Neutral/Low. For the Crawl Box, it's rail controls High/Neutral/Low.
The High/Neutral/Low portion of the transfer case is fully extracted and duplicated!
That is the whole beauty of the Toyota transfer case and why you don't see Jeeps/Fords/Chevys/Dodges/Nissans/Datsun/Daihatsus/Suzukis/etcetera with crazy low transfer case gearing. If you do, then it will be some entirely aftermarket t/case and not an OEM t/case. There is no doubt in my mind that Toyota is the only pure Rock Crawler truck. You cannot build a purely Jeep Rock Crawler, and if you did, it would be some strange unpractical monstrosity. Think about it, how many 500:1 or lower Jeeps have you seen? Or even 200:1? I am just trying to prove how cool the Toyota transfer case is.
What the Marlin Crawler does is it doubles the High/Neutral/Low section of the Toyota transfer case. Very cool! Please consider the following picture from an automatic 4Runner:
In the above picture, the first t/case shift lever with the Marlin Crawler shift knob is the "Crawl Box". This has the pattern of High/Neutral/Low. The second t/case shift lever, as you can see on the factory knob, has the "J" pattern as previously described above.
The twin stick is a device that separates two shift rails and therefore is only used on the transfer case and not the Crawl Box since the Crawl Box only has 1 shift rail. Here is a picture of a Twin Stick setup in a customer's truck:
The first t/case lever in this truck is just like the previous picture, High/Neutral/Low. The two levers at the bottom are mounted on top of the transfer case. The lever on the left controls High/Neutral/Low and the lever on the right controls 4WD/2WD. They are completely independent from one another.
I think most of the confusion comes from the fact that many people say "I have dual transfer cases" which is a very loose and incorrect term. We do not have dual transfer cases. A transfer case is a device that transfers power between the front and the rear axle (our trucks only have at most two drive lines!). Technically, you'd have dual low range reduction boxes with a power transfer unit, but it is easier to just say "I've got duals".
So the Twin Stick is mounted atop the lone transfer case, and it is a device that allows the two shift rails to be operated independently of one another.
I'm not sure if I follow. Just remember that high range is 1:1, a direct drive, and low range is a reduction. Here are the possible ratios which I think visually will help:
Stock Low Range + Stock Low Range
So looking at the two middle ratios, because high range is 1:1, it doesn't matter which case you have in high range, it will always result in a 1:1 direct drive through that case. But when you combine the two, then you get what we call "dual low range" since you have now doubled your stock low range.
Now with the Ultimate setup of using dual cases + a 4.70:1 gear set, now you can start to see where you have even more gearing options!!
Stock Low Range + Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Low Range
Now your transfer case becomes a 4 speed, giving you 20 different forward gears and 4 different reverse gears! HOW COOL IS THAT?!!!!!!!
Now, if you look back at the two pictures above, can you see that the first truck can indeed achieve 2WD Low Range without a Twin Stick? All it has to do is keep the transfer case in 2WD High range and then engage the Marlin Crawler into low range. The only advantage the 2nd truck has with the Twin Stick is that it can achieve 2WD Dual Low Range. If this functionality is needed for your truck or not is purely up to you!
Regards,
BigMike
And later,
There are two shift rails in the transfer case and only one shift rail in the Crawl Box. For the transfer case, one rail controls 2WD/4WD, and the other rail controls High/Neutral/Low. For the Crawl Box, it's rail controls High/Neutral/Low.
The High/Neutral/Low portion of the transfer case is fully extracted and duplicated!
That is the whole beauty of the Toyota transfer case and why you don't see Jeeps/Fords/Chevys/Dodges/Nissans/Datsun/Daihatsus/Suzukis/etcetera with crazy low transfer case gearing. If you do, then it will be some entirely aftermarket t/case and not an OEM t/case. There is no doubt in my mind that Toyota is the only pure Rock Crawler truck. You cannot build a purely Jeep Rock Crawler, and if you did, it would be some strange unpractical monstrosity. Think about it, how many 500:1 or lower Jeeps have you seen? Or even 200:1? I am just trying to prove how cool the Toyota transfer case is.
What the Marlin Crawler does is it doubles the High/Neutral/Low section of the Toyota transfer case. Very cool! Please consider the following picture from an automatic 4Runner:
In the above picture, the first t/case shift lever with the Marlin Crawler shift knob is the "Crawl Box". This has the pattern of High/Neutral/Low. The second t/case shift lever, as you can see on the factory knob, has the "J" pattern as previously described above.
The twin stick is a device that separates two shift rails and therefore is only used on the transfer case and not the Crawl Box since the Crawl Box only has 1 shift rail. Here is a picture of a Twin Stick setup in a customer's truck:
The first t/case lever in this truck is just like the previous picture, High/Neutral/Low. The two levers at the bottom are mounted on top of the transfer case. The lever on the left controls High/Neutral/Low and the lever on the right controls 4WD/2WD. They are completely independent from one another.
I think most of the confusion comes from the fact that many people say "I have dual transfer cases" which is a very loose and incorrect term. We do not have dual transfer cases. A transfer case is a device that transfers power between the front and the rear axle (our trucks only have at most two drive lines!). Technically, you'd have dual low range reduction boxes with a power transfer unit, but it is easier to just say "I've got duals".
So the Twin Stick is mounted atop the lone transfer case, and it is a device that allows the two shift rails to be operated independently of one another.
I'm not sure if I follow. Just remember that high range is 1:1, a direct drive, and low range is a reduction. Here are the possible ratios which I think visually will help:
Stock Low Range + Stock Low Range
Code:
Crawl Box T/Case Final Ratio High (1:1) High (1:1) 1 x 1 = 1:1 Low (2:28:1) High (1:1) 2.28 x 1 = 2.28:1 High (1:1) Low (2.28:1) 1 x 2.28 = 2.28:1 Low (2.28:1) Low (2.28:1) 2.28 x 2.28 = 5.2:1
Now with the Ultimate setup of using dual cases + a 4.70:1 gear set, now you can start to see where you have even more gearing options!!
Stock Low Range + Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Low Range
Code:
Crawl Box T/Case Final Ratio High (1:1) High (1:1) 1 x 1 = 1:1 Low (2:28:1) High (1:1) 2.28 x 1 = 2.28:1 High (1:1) Low (4.70:1) 1 x 4.70 = 4.70:1 Low (2.28:1) Low (4.70:1) 2.28 x 4.70 = 10.7:1
Now, if you look back at the two pictures above, can you see that the first truck can indeed achieve 2WD Low Range without a Twin Stick? All it has to do is keep the transfer case in 2WD High range and then engage the Marlin Crawler into low range. The only advantage the 2nd truck has with the Twin Stick is that it can achieve 2WD Dual Low Range. If this functionality is needed for your truck or not is purely up to you!
Regards,
BigMike
Code:
Hi | N | Lo
Code:
Hi
2 |
| N
4 |
Lo
So if I had front case in hi or n, and the rear in hi or n, the ratio is the same. And that's what I would want for highway speeds right? Or just leave a case in neutral for less wear and tear? And on a trail if I don't need 4lo-Lo I can have front case in hi, rear (4.7) in Lo and be able to have a fast pace crawl? Then if I get to heavy stuff slap the front case in Lo for dual ultimates?
I have been looking at triple sticks also, mainly I like my center console. Lol any feed back on a good brand or stay away from that?
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this info to me, and anybody else who stumbles upon this thread your awesome and full of knowledge
03-17-2011, 07:21 AM
#14
Registered User
Yes Sir!! 
Yes, this is correct regarding high range for city/highway, but the neutral feature is just like just like your transmission's neutral: It disengages the drive train. So right now for your 4Runner to be driving around town, you'd be using transmission gear's 1-5 with the transfer case in high range. Same applies with dual/triple/etc cases; they would also all be in high range for city/highway use just like the transfer case.
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!! 
To give you a basic idea, when I wheel trails such as the Rubicon, I'd say 80% of the time I have my cases in just the 4.70:1 ratio. This is great most of the time, but there are some times when I'm in 3rd and 4th gear so I'll shift only into the 2.28:1 case (and put the 4.70:1 case back into high). Then I can cruise at 15-20 MPH for the flatter sections, like in the Springs campground area or out on the slabs. I only use dual low when I am a) showing off, b) wasn't driving carefully & got into a pickle, c) showing off some more, or d) holy crap this trail is hard!! When the trail gets hard and I know I can just shift another lever and be 100% or more slower with more control and traction, WOW WHAT A RELIEF. SERIOUSLY. For me personally I would __NOT__ enjoy wheeling if I did not have my Marlin Crawler, no doubt about it.
The triple shifter is a great idea and it's something we've wanted to do for over 5 yrs now (but it's unfortunately been a low priority). I definitely recommend it because of how much easier the shifter modifications become!
Hey man, that's what it's all about!! Wheelers helping fellow wheelers!! Hopefully we will run into each other on the trail some day, it would be really cool to wheel with your soon-to-be-really-awesome 4Runner!!
Regards,
BigMike
So right now for your 4Runner to be driving around town, you'd be using transmission gear's 1-5 with the transfer case in high range. Same applies with dual/triple/etc cases; they would also all be in high range for city/highway use just like the transfer case. To give you a basic idea, when I wheel trails such as the Rubicon, I'd say 80% of the time I have my cases in just the 4.70:1 ratio. This is great most of the time, but there are some times when I'm in 3rd and 4th gear so I'll shift only into the 2.28:1 case (and put the 4.70:1 case back into high). Then I can cruise at 15-20 MPH for the flatter sections, like in the Springs campground area or out on the slabs. I only use dual low when I am a) showing off, b) wasn't driving carefully & got into a pickle, c) showing off some more, or d) holy crap this trail is hard!! When the trail gets hard and I know I can just shift another lever and be 100% or more slower with more control and traction, WOW WHAT A RELIEF. SERIOUSLY. For me personally I would __NOT__ enjoy wheeling if I did not have my Marlin Crawler, no doubt about it.Regards,
BigMike
03-17-2011, 07:35 AM
#15
Contributing Member
So in my mind the only reasons to have a twin stick (2 sticks on the rear case) would be if you wanted double low 2WD or if you didn't have dual reduction cases and wanted low 2WD. Because with "duals" (dual reduction cases) all you have to do to get low 2WD is put the front box in low and leave the rear box in 2WD. Is that a good summary Mike?
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-17-2011 at 07:38 AM.
03-17-2011, 07:39 AM
#16
Find someone who has duals and twin stick and drive it.
I like twin stick for shifting in between 2WD and 4WD between trails. Makes it easy.
It's also fun to back trucks out of the shop in double low reverse and get out of the truck and watch them move on their own
:wabbit2:
I like twin stick for shifting in between 2WD and 4WD between trails. Makes it easy.
It's also fun to back trucks out of the shop in double low reverse and get out of the truck and watch them move on their own
:wabbit2:
03-17-2011, 11:35 AM
#17
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Awesome finally understand! That was alot better then searching through posts that where vague.. I would deff be down to go wheeling new trails when I'm done ( then again there never really done) haha.. Plan on going to my local stuff up here in wa/or area, but plan on going to Moab, and Cali sometime in the future with my gramps in his fully built fj40...
03-17-2011, 01:14 PM
#18
Registered User
So in my mind the only reasons to have a twin stick (2 sticks on the rear case) would be if you wanted double low 2WD or if you didn't have dual reduction cases and wanted low 2WD. Because with "duals" (dual reduction cases) all you have to do to get low 2WD is put the front box in low and leave the rear box in 2WD. Is that a good summary Mike?
Please note I spoke of disengaging 4WD on the fly. Because you should only be using reduction gearing furthest down stream in order to minimize stress, your transfer case ought to always be in low range whenever you need low range. The Crawl Box should be the box you engage or disengage when the terrain demands it. Therefore, in order to shift into 2WD Low Range without a Twin Stick, you'd have to come to a complete stop, shift the t/case into Neutral, then 4WD High, then 2WD High, then engage the Crawl Box into Low Range, then reengage the transmission and resume driving. This isn't necessary with a Twin Stick. It's a simple 1 shift into 2WD or 1 shift back into 4WD without ever lifting my foot off the gas. (Remember that with your front hubs locked, the front drive line will always be rotating at the same speed as the rear drive line so you can freely disengage/engage the front axle regardless of vehicle speed.)
Regards,
BigMike
03-31-2011, 01:18 AM
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I just thought of another question tonight.
What does the 10* clock in a transfer case mean?
I was about to order my setup for duals and that's in there..
And also just to make sure I am right and not gonna go blowing money for nothing, my setup should look like this, transfercase--v6adapterplate--2.28crawlboxtopshift--4.70transfercasetopshift?
Thanks and just to clerify it's a 88 v6 4runner. Also what would be a better crossmember, I was thinking of making my own but maybe someone has seen some cheap, or worth the money ones.
Also I have a 3"bl (plan on 3.4 so leaving it) and I want as close to a flat bottom as possible, without doing tunnel fixing.
What does the 10* clock in a transfer case mean?
I was about to order my setup for duals and that's in there..
And also just to make sure I am right and not gonna go blowing money for nothing, my setup should look like this, transfercase--v6adapterplate--2.28crawlboxtopshift--4.70transfercasetopshift?
Thanks and just to clerify it's a 88 v6 4runner. Also what would be a better crossmember, I was thinking of making my own but maybe someone has seen some cheap, or worth the money ones.
Also I have a 3"bl (plan on 3.4 so leaving it) and I want as close to a flat bottom as possible, without doing tunnel fixing.
Last edited by 88runnasr5; 03-31-2011 at 01:26 AM.
