tried every method of bleeding known to man still won't go into to gear
10-28-2014, 08:06 PM
#21
it comes down from a connection point on the firewall, and it's maybe a foot long? that's gotta be it.
i'd guess that hose sees some engine heat, so replacing it couldn't hurt, but it's tough to get at, and it's a real long shot that replacing it will fix the problem.
are the clutch m/c and slave real factory units? aisin brand? because the junk from oriellys has failed on me in short order... i would do that first.
i'd guess that hose sees some engine heat, so replacing it couldn't hurt, but it's tough to get at, and it's a real long shot that replacing it will fix the problem.
are the clutch m/c and slave real factory units? aisin brand? because the junk from oriellys has failed on me in short order... i would do that first.
10-28-2014, 08:25 PM
#22
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OK yes both slave and master are from Orielly's and have been replaced twice. I ordered a Wildwood master from Summit but it has the wrong bolt pattern it won't bolt up and the line port is on top instead of on the side so the line won't reach. I am planning on calling tomorrow to see if I can get the right one. I haven't flushed the lines yet but I believe that it might need it. There have been a few times when nothing comes down the line at all like something was blocking the lines. When I did the bench bleed it also acted like it was blocked had to force fluid out of it. My theory is that the stock master just isn't big enough, when I bought the truck I was told that it has a 3 stage clutch in it. I am no clutch tech but that screams heavy duty needs more fluid pressure and volume to engage. Just putting that out there. Could be wrong, it's happened before lol
10-28-2014, 08:34 PM
#23
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And speaking of the 3 stage clutch if I tear down my tranny tomorrow how would I be able to tell the difference between a stock clutch or the 3stage I really need to put that little mystery to rest. I would love to know how to tell the difference. Aside from that I want to once again thank everyone for all the input and feedback it has been great support during a very frustrating two weeks and still going.
10-28-2014, 08:36 PM
#24
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If you have both new slave and master and have repeatedly bled, and are still seeing discolored fluid: I'm betting that your problem lies in the flexible rubber hose section of the pressure line.
It is likely internally ruptured and balloons when pressure is applied, so that the slave movement is small, then pukes out dark debris when you try to bleed.
Whatever clutch you have, if it's correct for the truck, the stock hydraulics should work fine.
It is likely internally ruptured and balloons when pressure is applied, so that the slave movement is small, then pukes out dark debris when you try to bleed.
Whatever clutch you have, if it's correct for the truck, the stock hydraulics should work fine.
Last edited by millball; 10-28-2014 at 08:38 PM.
10-28-2014, 08:42 PM
#25
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Ok I will hunt one down tomorrow morning right after my boss is done chewing my ass for being late for work. Tough two weeks without the truck. That is exactly what is happening too milky dark coming out and sporadic blockages. Thank you for the info.
10-28-2014, 08:45 PM
#26
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That's just it I can't say for sure yet if it's the right clutch. My question is who puts a racing clutch in a 4x4, I figured they did it because it was a heavier clutch than the stock clutch. I just don't know enough about clutches to make an educated guess about it.
Last edited by muddmadness; 10-28-2014 at 08:54 PM.
10-29-2014, 03:16 PM
#27
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Found the hose for the hydraulic lines sprayed down the line connections with PB blaster so as not to bend the metal line. Part will be there in the morning get it after work and put it in will post up the results hopefully with a positive result.
10-30-2014, 04:32 PM
#28
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Slave and fork making squeaking noises, it's more like a creaking noise it's a new noise. Still a bunch of air in the lines, it's pouring down rain getting soaked. Going for a beer will get back at it first thing tomorrow. The fork is definitely moving more than it was but now the noise... Also going to change out the gear oil in the tranny could be dirty. Previous owner went mudd bogging right before I got the truck.
10-31-2014, 05:38 PM
#29
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So I still have my job and now I have my truck again. Out of complete frustration I said just open up the bleeder and let it run holy schmolies it did the trick, took it for a drive and she was still stiff in first and was still ticking in reverse adjusted the rod out until only two threads were showing on top and bang it was fixed. Damn I am so relieved and grateful to have my truck back again. Thank you guys for all your help and the next post up should be a happy one about bumpers and a tow hitch. By the way I recently learned how to build springs and mount them. That was an experience for sure. Still plan on putting in the Wildwood master but that's a project for when I have decent paycheck again. Thanks guys for your help.
11-01-2014, 05:44 PM
#30
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So the problem ultimately ended up being a bad rubber hose right? Marlin made a stainless upgrade kit just for such occasions FYI https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch...lutch-line-kit
And here is a tried and true bleed method from the Toyota Bible on Pirate:
And here is a tried and true bleed method from the Toyota Bible on Pirate:
Clutch Master by RocKrawler
Clutch Master Cylinder Bleeding Instructions
I had a biatch of a time when I replaced my clutch master trying to get the darn thing bled. No matter how much I bled it, the pedal was still a sponge. After placing a call to a buddy who works at a Toyota wrecking yard, his mechanic gave me this quick tip and it worked perfect the first time, even if you didnt bench bleed it before bolting it up to the firewall:
1.) Adjust the bracket that pins to the clutch pedal so that it has about 1/4" free play
2.) Fill the Clutch Master cyl resevoir ( duh )
3.) Open the bleeder valve at the slave cylinder ( on the bellhousing for newbies, pass side, follow the hydraulic line from the clutch master down, you'll see it ) and without pumping the pedal, just let it drain until the resevoir is about 1/2 empty.
4.) Close the bleeder and fill the resevoir
5.) Have someone pump the clutch 5 times and hold, open the bleeder at the slave & bleed the system, closing the valve before fluid flow stops ( again for newbies )
6.) Repeat step 5 until there is no more air bubbles when you bleed the system.
If you followed the directions, you should have noticable clutch within 3 bleeding cycles, and be done within 6 cycles, whether or not you bench bled the clutch master before installing.
Clutch Master Cylinder Bleeding Instructions
I had a biatch of a time when I replaced my clutch master trying to get the darn thing bled. No matter how much I bled it, the pedal was still a sponge. After placing a call to a buddy who works at a Toyota wrecking yard, his mechanic gave me this quick tip and it worked perfect the first time, even if you didnt bench bleed it before bolting it up to the firewall:
1.) Adjust the bracket that pins to the clutch pedal so that it has about 1/4" free play
2.) Fill the Clutch Master cyl resevoir ( duh )
3.) Open the bleeder valve at the slave cylinder ( on the bellhousing for newbies, pass side, follow the hydraulic line from the clutch master down, you'll see it ) and without pumping the pedal, just let it drain until the resevoir is about 1/2 empty.
4.) Close the bleeder and fill the resevoir
5.) Have someone pump the clutch 5 times and hold, open the bleeder at the slave & bleed the system, closing the valve before fluid flow stops ( again for newbies )
6.) Repeat step 5 until there is no more air bubbles when you bleed the system.
If you followed the directions, you should have noticable clutch within 3 bleeding cycles, and be done within 6 cycles, whether or not you bench bled the clutch master before installing.
11-01-2014, 06:07 PM
#31
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Yes I believe that the hose was the issue, but the bleeding was also key. Here is how I did it: place hose on bleeder make sure the master reservoir stays full, put the hose end in jar with fluid enough to cover hose end so as not to pull more air in (duh),open bleeder just let it bleed to death. After one round of this I had my pedal back. Still wouldn't go into gear so I let it bleed out again while keeping master full. Suddenly it went in so I took it for a spin around the block and first and reverse were working but still stiff and reverse was doing the thump, thump as it would go in. So I checked the pedal adjustment backed it out a couple more threads and it felt fine. Today I went out to double check after it sat all night and first is still a little bit stiff and reverse was doing the thump thing again, and will stop only after the pedal is held down continuously without letting off, makes me think there is still a little bit of air in the lines.
11-01-2014, 06:18 PM
#32
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I was wondering about the upgrade kits that rubber hose is just a drama causer. Thanks for the FYI, I am going to go and have the fluid in the tranny changed out just so I know it's good. Normally I would do it myself but the bolt for the fill hole is torqed on so tight worry about the aluminum housing snapping off, seen it before on my transfer case, need to have the diff oil checked and changed out anyway same goes there can't get the bolt out.
11-01-2014, 06:39 PM
#33
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I went with Redline MT-90 in my trans and it shifts smoother in cold weather because it's a GL-4 instead of GL-4/5. The t-case can take whatever, I had MT-90 in it too but switched back to a standard (cheaper) gear oil because it has a leak that I can't fix right now.
I have the same fill plug issue as you, so I removed both shifters to do the fill job.
I have the same fill plug issue as you, so I removed both shifters to do the fill job.
11-01-2014, 06:52 PM
#34
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I was wondering about that, removing the shifters occurred to me yesterday just need to figure out how much it holds so I don't over fill it. That is if the drain plug isn't in the same situation I haven't checked it.
11-02-2014, 07:35 PM
#35
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So I drove the to work today, curious thing first and reverse still stiff but working when I parked it at work the front end was pointed uphill. I got in started it up and first was soft and reverse was fine too. Came home parked for two minutes got back in and first was stiff again. Air bubbles or something else?
11-03-2014, 09:13 AM
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I didn't read the whole post but you can pressure bleed backwards from the slave to the master. let the air go up with the fluid. ive always had good luck with that in all applications.
11-03-2014, 04:22 PM
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Either get a bug canister with a ball valve attached to the the tip of the hose with an end that will fit the bleed screw. Or you can buy them from an auto parts store. Basically your just bleeding it the way air would flow out.
11-03-2014, 04:34 PM
#39
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Ok I'll look into that and see what up. What I was trying to say in the post before was that if I hold steady pressure on the pedal for a bit it goes in soft like there is an air bubble moving in the line.
11-03-2014, 04:54 PM
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I am working from my phone right now or I would down load the Toyota Bible right now just so I could post it on Yotatech, we should have a copy of it on the site. I think when I have a chance and a good WiFi connection I will besides the money certainly goes for a good cause. If there isn't any legal issues with doing that. It's the least I can do for all the support I have been given on this site. It's my way of giving back to Yotatech's members.
