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Right after I finally got my 22RE running great (corrected idling, timing 5*BTDC, replaced exhaust manifold because of a crack, adjusted valves which led to..), I discovered that the timing chain guide on the drivers side had broken off. Not fully off but barely hanging on. It seems like the middle part of the guide is off and there's small kine wear into the timing cover. I will upload more pics once Photobucket starts working again. The previous owner says he replaced the chain, gears, guides and tensioner about 35K miles (odometer says 168K now) ago so I was wondering if anyone has changed the guides through the valve cover like this guy did: https://toyotaminis.com/forum/thread...e-motors.3787/
the photos didn't work but it seems straightforward as long as you have the right tools
I am also going to pull the oil pan to fish out the bits as it's time for an oil change anyways. It'll be easier 'cause I have a 4" lift.
I KNOW that this is just a bandaid fix but as I stated, the PO changed it not too long ago and I have confidence the other parts (the top chain gear has USA stamped on it)
will last at least 20-30K more.
This is my DD and I need to focus funds/time/energy into building a house, but after that I think I will tackle the whole rebuilding thing as when changing timing chain, I should replace the water & oil pumps, change the HG, may as well lap the valves (whatever that means), have the head checked, shaved, etc.
so you're saying, I'm better off inventing a shrinking machine, so I can jump in there and thread the bolts into place and then unshrink myself to tighten with an offset wrench.
you have a point.
BUT
if I drop the oil pan, won't it afford me a way out if the bolts fall off?
In my internet research, guys are saying that in cheap timing kits, the guide is usually cheap plastic. I am looking at doing it the proper*ish (gonna leave the head on) with the kit from engnbldr. I hope the quality of his parts are the same over the years. None of my cohorts have the long 0° offset 12mm wrench which is essential to the operation but if I find and borrow one then I might give it the ol college try.
Your better off trying to pull the timing cover off with the head on. Follow me here. It's easy, ask me questions if you're unsure of what I'm saying.
Take off the oil pan first, not just unbolt the front take it all the way off. Your going to want to pull the bottom of the timing cover twoard the front of the car. So you don't mess up the front of the head gasket to much. Run a razor blade between the top of the timing cover and bottom of the head gasket, it's metal but a sharp razor can cut it(use a thin safety razor blade). When you put it back together use just enough rtv to stick the timing cover gasket to the block. Then rtv the top of the timing cover and press the cover to the block like an inch or two below the head, just hand pressure. You don't want to move the timing cover gasket. Then push the timing cover up so it contacts the head and bolt in place. If the headgasket in that front portion unsticks from the head just lightly pry it down Abit and put some rtv there too. If you take your time and be gentle this method will work and it won't leak. JUST ALWAYS TAKE THE OIL PAN OFF FIRST. I learned the hard way and had to do the headgasket after I already replaced one. Plus my timing cover was cracked. And don't forget about the long ass bolt that goes from the head to the top of the timing cover that's under the distributer timing gear. It's usually under a puddle of oil.
I'm throwing this out there because we have interference engines. If the PO (who you may or may not know, idk) DIDN'T actually do the chain, then it could be stretched, could break brand new guides before you know it, cause a lot of problems, etc
I was pretty terrified honestly about doing my timing because I have terrible luck. So I had to study hard. It's not that bad, it's not expensive, if you buck up and take care of the problem now. It's in your best interest bud. And get a good quality kit. Steel guides. Dual row if you want. But I would say since you're getting in there anyway, do it right.
I did the timing chain,sprockets, guides, tensioner and new cover on my 22RE without disturbing the head or the pan. Pieces of the old guides are down in the pan somewhere. That's 30,000 miles ago. Just have to be careful (and fortunate) while removing the timing cover. Runs great and don't leak a drop of oil.
alright thanks for the input fellas.
Engnbldr didn't respond back so I went with Aisin parts from RockAuto. A little bit more $ but at least I know they're made in Japan (The mystical land of Toyotas). Thanks war for the tips, I think I get what you saying but I'm sure it'll make more sense when I'm doing it. TAKE THE PAN OFF FIRST! I've isolated an oil leak between the block and the head which I think is common for those that replace the timing chain without taking off the head so hopefully I will be able to get rid of that too.
I'm waiting on the timing cover to arrive and I guess it's time to replace the radiator too..
Make sure you got the right timing cover. I had to buy a specific one for my Celica and it was a pretty poor casting and I had to clean it up. Mind you after I tried to fix my timing cover once before after I found it was cracked... So don't tighten the bolt that goes from the top of the head to timing cover to much otherwise it can crack.. just torque it to spec I can get you all torque specs if you don't have an FSM
I have the torque specs, thanks war.
Does this qualify as poor casting? I think it's ok..they seem superficial and don't go all the way through..but still
I would pull the timing cover, water pump, oil pump and do it right. I did mine 5,000 miles ago just sliding the timing cover off with the head still on. Pulled the oil pan and pieces of the driver's side guide was in the oil pan. While I was in there replaced the oil strainer/pickup tube. I bought my timing kit from 22RE Performance and the metal backed guides from LC Engineering but 22RE performance now includes metal backed guides in their kits. You'll need Permatex Ultra Gray RTV. I also used Toyota FIPG for the oil pan. Good Luck!
P.S. the cracks are superficial and weird looking. My Aisin water pump had cracks like those and I expected it to leak but so far it hasn't.
Thanks for da kine words anndel.
I'm still waiting on my timing chain cover to come in the mail. I bought a metal guide to replace the driver side one but settled for a plastic one on the passenger side because rock auto didn't carry metal ones. What you folks think? In my research, the driver side gets more of the abuse because of chain slack. The one in there right now is plastic (it has about 35K) and I will be replacing it. I think it'll be fine.
Thanks for da kine words anndel.
I'm still waiting on my timing chain cover to come in the mail. I bought a metal guide to replace the driver side one but settled for a plastic one on the passenger side because rock auto didn't carry metal ones. What you folks think? In my research, the driver side gets more of the abuse because of chain slack. The one in there right now is plastic (it has about 35K) and I will be replacing it. I think it'll be fine.
My 93 had about 155,000 miles on it when I had to replace the timing chain. I also replaced the water pump, oil pump, oil pickup tube and the usual - timing chain, hydraulic tensioner, both guides, front main seal, etc. The driver's side guide takes a beating as it broke and some pieces ended up in the oil pan. The passenger side was intact, only minor scuffing from the chain rubbing on it occasionally. I followed 4crawler's guide and "beginers timing chain..." from this forum.
I've talked to a number of pro's about the guides, including Tod at Engnbldr and A couple guys over at 22re performance. In their opinion, plastic guides are fine as long as the tensioner is oem (OSK brand) and the bolts aren't tightened more than about 9 ft/lbs. With such low torque, you'll want some kind of high-temp threadlocker rather than anti-seize on the bolts. Their reasoning was that the driver's guide seems to break from either too much slack (head and block shaved without running adjustable cam gear) or the tensioner seizing or failing in some way.
My tensioner self-destructed in a really bad way and I had no clue what was wrong at the time. I drove it another few hundred miles with no tensioner at all and the plastic passenger guide still looked fine during tear-down.
Hey thanks for the tip GSP. I will pick up some high temp thread locker before I do this job. I'm still waiting on the timing cover.. I should contact RockAuto already..
I was pleasantly surprised to see that my Beck Arnley (part # 0241000) tensioner is actually an OSK brand inside the box. stoked!
I tested a few different tensioner bolt torques (14, 12 and 9 ft/lbs) on the stand and found that after the cover goes on with it's bolts at specified torque, that tensioner can bind pretty easily. For some reason it won't bind without the cover on, go figure. I tested by pushing the tension arm in with a long screwdriver from the opening up top and seeing how easily it returned. Stuck in often at 14 ft/lbs, less at 12 and never at 9 ft/lbs. Makes me wonder how many have torqued it too tight and have chain rattling problems as a result.
04-14-2017, 01:07 PM
