okay, do yota engines need this?
01-05-2010, 12:38 PM
#22
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Oils use to have much more ZDDP than they do today. The only oils left that have any real amounts left in them are the diesel oils, or some of the motorcycle oils.
I think Valvoline makes a off road only oil with lots of it. It's aimed at the drag race crowd. I don't recommend it for any thing with a cat, as it's supposed to clog them quickly, but I would dump it in for a break in lube.
This being said, the valve train in the 22R-E motors for sure can use all the ZDDP that you can throw at it with today's oils that are legal for on-road use. Diesel oils are your best bet for this. Yes you can get Syn. diesel oils for you fake oil types.
I run Rotella T in every thing I own.
89 Toyota 22RE, 15-40 dino
90 Bronco 5.slow, 15-40 dino
02 Suzuki bandit 1200, 5-40 fake
81 Honda Goldwing 1100, 15-40 dino
05 Honda TRX 450R, 5-40 fake on crankcase side, 15-40 dino on trans side
06 Yamaha Banshee, 5-40 fake (trans side, it a 2 smoker)
As you can see, I have a few toys to play with, and all but the Bronco has a form of flat tappet cam set up.
I think Valvoline makes a off road only oil with lots of it. It's aimed at the drag race crowd. I don't recommend it for any thing with a cat, as it's supposed to clog them quickly, but I would dump it in for a break in lube.
This being said, the valve train in the 22R-E motors for sure can use all the ZDDP that you can throw at it with today's oils that are legal for on-road use. Diesel oils are your best bet for this. Yes you can get Syn. diesel oils for you fake oil types.
I run Rotella T in every thing I own.
89 Toyota 22RE, 15-40 dino
90 Bronco 5.slow, 15-40 dino
02 Suzuki bandit 1200, 5-40 fake
81 Honda Goldwing 1100, 15-40 dino
05 Honda TRX 450R, 5-40 fake on crankcase side, 15-40 dino on trans side
06 Yamaha Banshee, 5-40 fake (trans side, it a 2 smoker)
As you can see, I have a few toys to play with, and all but the Bronco has a form of flat tappet cam set up.
You are correct. ZDDP is most abundant in diesel oils, but it will clog up a cat, and since most diesels (well used to be most) do not have cats, ZDDP content can be higher in that oil. I run only Rotella in my runner, but it has a gutted cat. 280k, never a problem.
01-05-2010, 01:13 PM
#23
This is interesting info. My FSM calls for API SF or SF/CC oil and even the Amsoil 10W-40 I use doesn't list this one (though it claims to satisfy about 50 different ones). The article listed at the top does say that Amsoil has adequate levels of ZDDP, however.
It would be hard to figure out anything conclusive on this board unless someone has a good way to test wear with and without that additive. We all stick to our own flavor of motor oil superstition anyway.
It would be hard to figure out anything conclusive on this board unless someone has a good way to test wear with and without that additive. We all stick to our own flavor of motor oil superstition anyway.
01-05-2010, 01:17 PM
#24
Ever heard of STP Oil Treatment.
STP stands for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. It has more ZDDP than the competition(says so on the front of the bottle).
I use it every 3000 miles in my 88 3VZE. She seems to like it with 228,000 miles and counting!
STP stands for Scientifically Treated Petroleum. It has more ZDDP than the competition(says so on the front of the bottle).
I use it every 3000 miles in my 88 3VZE. She seems to like it with 228,000 miles and counting!
Last edited by MudHippy; 01-06-2010 at 03:37 PM.
01-05-2010, 05:03 PM
#25
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Funny... I thought STP stood for Standard Temperature and Pressure. Maybe that was just in chemistry. Abe, why are you laughing at this? The OP had a good question concerning the protection and condition of his engine. I for one think that is something we should all be concerned about, especially since most of us have 150k+ miles on our vehicles.
01-05-2010, 06:03 PM
#26
Check out this thread:
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...4.html?t=71034
It seems to indicate that Amsoil uses alot of ZDDP in their products, hence the non API certification.
Copy pasting from the body of the thread, this is Amsoil's statement:
"Here is the Amsoil reply:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns,
In response to your inquiry, there seems to be some misinformation. The purpose of ZDDP is for anti-oxidancy and wear prevention. The auto industry is trying to eliminate it. AMSOIL XL oils will follow the auto industry and the established low ZDDP levels. AMSOIL's other motor oils will maintain high levels of ZDDP because it is good stuff, it is effective, and it is beneficial for long drain oils.
Thanks again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Ed Kellerman
Manager, AMSOIL Technical Services"
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...4.html?t=71034
It seems to indicate that Amsoil uses alot of ZDDP in their products, hence the non API certification.
Copy pasting from the body of the thread, this is Amsoil's statement:
"Here is the Amsoil reply:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns,
In response to your inquiry, there seems to be some misinformation. The purpose of ZDDP is for anti-oxidancy and wear prevention. The auto industry is trying to eliminate it. AMSOIL XL oils will follow the auto industry and the established low ZDDP levels. AMSOIL's other motor oils will maintain high levels of ZDDP because it is good stuff, it is effective, and it is beneficial for long drain oils.
Thanks again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Ed Kellerman
Manager, AMSOIL Technical Services"
01-05-2010, 06:42 PM
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ZDDP amounts to about 1% of current lubricating oil content.
So removal of ZDDP is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back, rendering all of our engines inoperable?
Okay, now I'm laughing.
01-05-2010, 07:36 PM
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so stp and Amsoil has zddp in them? that is good to know, think I'll be throwing
a bit of stp in the oil from now on...can't hurt with a mix with some good oil, I wouldn't think.
a bit of stp in the oil from now on...can't hurt with a mix with some good oil, I wouldn't think.
01-05-2010, 07:40 PM
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Depends on the snake.
Elapidae provide between 90 and 150% improvement with cobras and sea snakes rounding out the lower end and median and mambas at the highest percentile.
Pit vipers (rattlesnakes, moccasins, lanceheads, etc.), provide around 100% improvement.
Constrictors, pythons and boas take up the 0-70 percentile.
Elapidae provide between 90 and 150% improvement with cobras and sea snakes rounding out the lower end and median and mambas at the highest percentile.
Pit vipers (rattlesnakes, moccasins, lanceheads, etc.), provide around 100% improvement.
Constrictors, pythons and boas take up the 0-70 percentile.
01-05-2010, 08:23 PM
#34
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can't see a benefit for using it, nor does it seem to be of great usefullness, in wear protection, and it is deff bad to get into environmental systems, much less ingest or inhale it...
01-05-2010, 08:44 PM
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Lead is a known lubricating agent. Using unleaded fuel in a vehicle not designed for unleaded fuel resulted in highly accelerated wear to the valves and the valve seats. Realistically speaking, it also will reduce wear to the valves and seats on vehicles designed to not use leaded fuel.
01-05-2010, 09:04 PM
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You have no problems whatsoever putting a chemical in to your fuel system... a chemical rather closely related to diesel fuel... a chemical which does not even have its own wikipedia page describing what it is and what it does, yet ZDDP has a page?
