Well, there's the interesting thing. Does the rattle actually mean it's not getting lubed enough? With the Main/Rod Bearings running 15w40 it's a fact they are not getting enough lube at start up and you have a lot metal/metal contact. It gets worse at high RPMS, till the Oil warms up.

To be honest I don't even know if the rattle is what you describe it is. It's possible it could be something else.

I personally don't think you can look at it as which one is going to leave you stranded. Your starter could die and leave you stranded, but that has nothing to do with your oil.

I would be more worried about lubricating my engine and making sure it's not going to need to get replaced prematurely. That's a lot of work and money.

So, I'm not going to stop you from running 15w40 in your truck. But I wouldn't be running a diesel mix. If I'm wrong no harm done. If I'm right, you're going to be replacing your engine a lot sooner.

 

Same city here, same weight oil.

 

no, your not reading, and it was already said, he isn't comparing a ferrari engine, he is speaking generally about an internal combustion engine, and even then, ITS AN INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE, they haven't really changed since they were invented, and a ferrari engine isn't much different than a toyota than is a GM, its all built on the same principle. That article was the coolest thing i have read in awhile, and is very logical to me, it makes sense.

That would be a Ferrari, and that same issue can be said for many super cars. However, they are not all like that, many Porsches you'll have no problems with driving every day, (and you can see out of them) as well as many British super car makers. It seems a lot of Italian super car manufactures build their cars without any real intent of people actually driving them.

 

so is running 10-40 on a 185k 22r thats only had 10-40 / 10-130 in it all its life bad and i should switch to a thinner oil??

 

approx 25 - 93*F

 

My 08 Yukon and 07 Lexus are both on synthetic. I change the oil myself, I like to see what's in the drain.

The 69 Jeep and 87 Toy both got synthetic and both either leaked it, or drank it. I moved back to 20/50 in the Jeep with additives and 10/40 in the Toy. The Jeep is babied like no other as it only has 48,000 original miles. The Toyota just passed 242,000. I replace the oil every 3,000-3,500 miles not because I HAVE to but because I feel better about that oil looking sparkley clear. I may be wrong, but my ignorance has netted me 460,000 out of my first Toyota (it was stolen, bastards!) and 242,000 out of this one.

Also, from what I understand, almost all oils are about the same these days. They all have to meet the same standards. I don't know about detergents and I don't feel this applies to synthetic oils. I use Castrol or Quaker State for the oldies and Mobil1 for now in the newbies.

 

It's not bad per-say. It's just that with a 10w30 or 10w40 you are not getting enough lubrication at startup. It's a simple fact. The guy who wrote the article points out numerous times that there is no oil on the market thin enough when cold, to provide adquete lubrication at startup.

To be honest, the damage has already been done. Switching to a 5w30 or 0w20 won't make much of a difference now. The funny thing about 5w30 vs. 10w30 vs. 10w40 is that the 10w40 is thicker at startup and therefore the worst on your engine. While the 10w30 and the 5w30 are the same thickness at startup only the 5w30 thins out slightly more when heated up. But still provides the same lubrication properties.


That makes sense, because Synthetic has much smaller and more consistant oil molecules than conventional. It's also bad to switch from Synthetic back to regular, because your seals swell and the Conventional can't replace the seals as well.

You are correct as far as requirements for Detergents, etc. They all meet the federal minmum guidelines. More expensive oil tends to have more/better addtives that work better/last longer.

What doesn't apply to Synthetic oils?

Oh, and on a parting note. The reason why you got so many miles out of your trucks is because you do take care of them and change the oil regularly! That's the biggest key, beceause as those addtitives break down, they lubricate less well, foam more, etc. Regular oil changes are a must! The author is simply pointing out common misconceptions. It's more of a guide than an end all/be all situation. I'm tell ya you gotta read it .

 

lemme just add some fuel for the fire-
if the engine has a proper anti-drainback system (engineered for the sole purpose of reducing oil starvation ... the thing the ferrari-dude was advocating thin oil for), there is oil in place in the important oil galley(s) and ready to circulate as soon as the engine makes enough pressure... sorry flow to displace it thus expediting the delivery of oil to the bearings, etc. and negating the absolute 'thinnest' oil be used.

like I mentioned before, the guy in the article used a Ferarri engine to demonstrate his 'theory'.... and I'm not going to address the particular replies to my post(s) (yet?)... save to say that a Ferrari engine is not a mass-produced, mechanically assembled engine as most commuter vehicles are, and has very specific and tight tolerances with regards to bearing clearances, etc. To say that based on his experience with a Ferrari engine, all engines have the same requirements is neither correct nor responsible. Just because it's good enough for a Ferrari does not mean it's good enough for every other engine out there, based on observations I have noted (bearing tolerance, anti-drainback, etc.).
(...any one else find it odd that a doctor of medicine would undertake a study of oil and mechanical engineering...?)

and I will go further to say that I have had several vehicles with hydraulic tappets (one in particular was owned since new- 6 miles on the odo) and that with <= 5w(whatever) @ 75F ambient, all had lifter clatter wheras using even a 10w(X) oil, the lifter clatter was non-extant in spite of being the farthest away from the oil pump. So tell me how it is an absolute fact that the thinner oil that is supposed to circulate faster is better and has reduced wear on those engines.
...can you?
and don't use the 'wear has already occured' response since as noted, one vehicle was owned with only 6 miles on the clock, and would clatter with 5w oil.

 

wrong. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature.
A 10w30 and 10w40 posess the same viscosity when at the same cold temperature... ...the 10w40 is thicker than the 10w30 at higher but similar temps.
The 5w30 is thinner at startup than the 10w30. The 5w30 and 10w30 are the same viscosity when at operating temperature.
Considering most synth oils do not permeate 'rubber seals' as readily as the complex traditional oils, that is not correct. Actually, the reverse is true- traditional oil will cause the seals to swell whereas synthetic oil will not.
yet again, not true. Motor oil has a specific API rating assigned to it based on tests performed in a laboratory. Just because it is more expensive bears no relevence to its efficacy as a motor oil. The API Service Rating is not a Federal guideline. It's an industry-wide specification / agreement meant to help 'engines' comply with Federally mandated emissions and durability requirements. It is in no way "Federal", by requirement or by guideline.
hmm... so tell me why I got 360K miles out of a 1.7L VW A2 Scirocco using 20w50 oil from the time it had 76K on the odo and changed it every 7,000-10,000 miles?

 

Possible, but not likely.

I've had a bunch of Toyota technicians look at it. Ones that are intimately familiar with this engine.

Their suggestion was to run whatever oil keeps the chain from rattling at startup.

 

the implication is that thin oil bypasses the chain tensioner until such a point is reached that the combined restrictions from up-stream factors cause the pressure at the tensioner to become sufficient to apply force to the tensioner which will cause the tensioner to extend and consequently take up the 'slack' in the chain.
have to remember that the chain tensioner is the FIRST place oil from the pump can travel.

sorry, but yet another argument against using the 'thinnest' oil.

 

and another place the "Ferrari MD" is not correct.

 

The Ferrari MD is arguing about an engine, and deriving oil requirements from an engine that has zero 'hydraulic' parts- everything is mechanically adjusted, so apparently pressure, as opposed to flow, is not a concern.

 

"The greatest confusion is because of the way motor oils are labeled. It is an old system and is confusing to many people. I know the person is confused when they say that a 0W-30 oil is too thin for their engine because the old manual says to use 10W-30. This is wrong.

More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup."

"One thing that is no longer important is the ambient temperature. Older automotive owner manuals often recommended one oil for the summer and another for the winter. This is still necessary for air cooled engines but is no longer a consideration in pressurized water cooled engines. These engine blocks are kept at around 212 F all year round. The oil is around the same temperature as well. This allows for a single weight oil all year round. Again, this is not the same as on the track where the coolant temperature is slightly higher and the oil temperature is much higher.

Please forget those numbers on the oil can. They really should be letters as AW-M, BW-N or CW-P. The fact that we are dealing with a system of numbers on the can makes people think that they represent the viscosity of the oil inside the can. The problem is that the viscosity of oil varies with its temperature. A “30” weight oil has a viscosity of 3 at 302 F ( 150 C ) and thickens to 10 at 212 F ( 100 C ). It further thickens to a viscosity of 100 at 104 F ( 40 C ) and is too thick to measure at the freezing point of 32 F ( 0 C ).



30 weight oil:

Temperature ( F )....Thickness

302...........................3
212..........................10
104..........................100
32..........................250 (rough estimate)"

I'm at work, so I only have 8 more minutes so I can't respond to everything you said. But I'll be back to debate the rest of your points. I just wanted to share that real quick, and see if you had any proof to back up the claim that an oil starts out thin and thickens as temps go up.

 

nothing I said was confusing.

API ratings state and agree with what I've claimed.
the first number in the 'oil' weight' is the viscosity when cold (approximately 23F/0C) and the second is the viscosity when warm (approximately 212F/100C).
I've made a statement, prove me wrong... I am innocent until proven guilty, no?...
... and please do not exclude multi-weight oils in your faux-dissertation.
You've already attempted to do so with your chart
... too many times.

 

the (faux) fact is:
a 10w has a certain 'viscosity' at 0C/32F...
a 10 has that same viscosity at 100C/212F
so a 10w flows as well at freezing as a 10 flows at boiling. right?
so I guess we should all be using 10w10 oil, no?... since the Ferrari dude says every engine only needs a 10

puhleeeze.

yeah, it sounds crazy when you read it, doesn't it?

 

Basically, Hush up and run amsoil.

 

what weight amsoil?

 

I may try their signature series 0-30, but more likely just the 10-30. I run mobil1 15-50 right now because all i could find other than that was 5-20 in their extended performance.




I just like the fact that they actually post test results and name names, even if they didn't do the best in that particular category.

 

use what works. can't fault you for that.