New Engine Installed - Won't Start (22RE)
05-10-2008, 11:28 AM
#82
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Well, I'll cut to the chase and say that cyl number 4 is putting up about 65 psi, wet or dry. I suspect that means massive leakage in the valves, if not worse. I'm not sure that they could be THAT far out of adjustment, but what do I know. Matthew should be shooting over this way soon and we'll get started on that in just a few.
05-10-2008, 11:36 AM
#83
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If the compression isn't bumping up with a bit of oil down the hole I'd definitely say that the valves are out of adjustment by at least a few millimeters.
Here's a quick rundown on setting the valves:
Set the crank at TDC
If #1 cylinder's valves are tight (no wiggle room on the rockers) adjust #2 & #4 exhaust valves and #3 and #4 intake valves.
If #1 cylinder's valves are loose (wiggle room), adjust #1 & #2 intake valves and #1 & #3 exhaust valves.
Whichever it was, once the valves are adjusted, rotate the crank 1 full turn back to TDC and adjust the other set of valves.
If the engine is cold, set the valves to 7mm intake and 11mm exhaust.
If the engine is warm, set the valves to 8mm intake and 12mm exhaust.
If the engine is cold when you do the adjustment, start the engine and warm it up then re-check the valves and set them to the warm clearances. The cold adjustments are 'ball-park' figures to get you running good but the clearances should be set with the engine warm.
cheers
Here's a quick rundown on setting the valves:
Set the crank at TDC
If #1 cylinder's valves are tight (no wiggle room on the rockers) adjust #2 & #4 exhaust valves and #3 and #4 intake valves.
If #1 cylinder's valves are loose (wiggle room), adjust #1 & #2 intake valves and #1 & #3 exhaust valves.
Whichever it was, once the valves are adjusted, rotate the crank 1 full turn back to TDC and adjust the other set of valves.
If the engine is cold, set the valves to 7mm intake and 11mm exhaust.
If the engine is warm, set the valves to 8mm intake and 12mm exhaust.
If the engine is cold when you do the adjustment, start the engine and warm it up then re-check the valves and set them to the warm clearances. The cold adjustments are 'ball-park' figures to get you running good but the clearances should be set with the engine warm.
cheers
05-10-2008, 11:38 AM
#84
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Abe - I assume I need some sort of gauge for adjusting the valves? Any recommendations?
Oh - And here's a video of the "surge" issue i referred to. This is after only about 2 minutes of idling on cold startup. Also, I showed how removing plug 4 does nothing (well obviously with 60psi, huh?) and plug 3 makes a HUGE difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBMdhAMlhY
Oh - And here's a video of the "surge" issue i referred to. This is after only about 2 minutes of idling on cold startup. Also, I showed how removing plug 4 does nothing (well obviously with 60psi, huh?) and plug 3 makes a HUGE difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBMdhAMlhY
05-10-2008, 11:45 AM
#85
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simple metric feeler gauges are enough- maybe a few bucks at the auto parts store. Just make sure there are feeler gauges that fit your required measurements. You may need to get 2 different feeler sets. If you can avoid it, do NOT get the brass feelers since brass is too soft for an accurate measurement.
As said make sure you've got at least 8mm and 12mm gauges since the real 'true' adjustment is with the engine warmed up.
and DAMN! you're brave pulling plugs like that! Last time I did it I got a few jolts up my arm and out my elbow.
But given that vid, I'd say that valve adjustments WOULD cause that problem.
As said make sure you've got at least 8mm and 12mm gauges since the real 'true' adjustment is with the engine warmed up.
and DAMN! you're brave pulling plugs like that! Last time I did it I got a few jolts up my arm and out my elbow.
But given that vid, I'd say that valve adjustments WOULD cause that problem.
Last edited by abecedarian; 05-10-2008 at 11:48 AM.
05-10-2008, 03:12 PM
#87
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Sent you a rather long PM update. But for the records, Matthew is a genius as expected. Adjust the valves was a great idea! Who would have thought. Got it back together and fired it up and it ran just as smooth as can be.
We tracked the surging issue to a faulty TPS. Unplugging the TPS gets rid of the problem. So I'm going to test this out to see if it's completely dead (I assume it is, because I didn't touch it at all) or if I can simply reset it.
So there is light at the end of the tunnell! I'll keep you updated.
We tracked the surging issue to a faulty TPS. Unplugging the TPS gets rid of the problem. So I'm going to test this out to see if it's completely dead (I assume it is, because I didn't touch it at all) or if I can simply reset it.
So there is light at the end of the tunnell! I'll keep you updated.
05-10-2008, 05:16 PM
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Kyle- I feel like an idiot.
The valve clearances are (warm): .008 inch intake and .012 inch exhaust (0.2 and 0.3 mm respectively), not 8 and 12 mm as I said.
I gave you specs that are way out of range. Slap me silly.
That'll prolly take care of most of that noise you have.
The valve clearances are (warm): .008 inch intake and .012 inch exhaust (0.2 and 0.3 mm respectively), not 8 and 12 mm as I said.
I gave you specs that are way out of range. Slap me silly.
That'll prolly take care of most of that noise you have.
05-10-2008, 05:59 PM
#90
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Hello Abe,
I spent a couple of hours over at Kyle's (quite the host, btw
) and we set about to adjust the valves. He decided on .007 intake and .011 (in in.'s), showed him how to set them and how it should feel sliding the gauge, and let him go to town. He's a quick study...lol. Anyway, the valves were WAY tight all around. Couldn't even get the feeler gauges in at first. While he was doing that, I looked over everything and except for the dashpot hose being connected to the vacuum port adapter....where the fuel pressure up valve, etc. connects....everything looked fine. Once he had the valves adjusted, it idle much, much better. But, the valves are still rather noisy. Not sure why, though. Could be a couple of different things, but it isn't the valve cover being too tight. The only other issue was the revving up and down upon throttle opening. It was pretty wild. I had to file through my memory banks and recalled running into the same condition before with my V6.....only in my case it was because I'd installed the dashpot mounting pin wrong. It's the same in the sense that his problem is related to throttle position and what the TPS is reading, but in his case it's the throttle sensor itself. Like Kyle said, we unplugged it and the motor was much happier.
On that note.....Kyle,
I thought about it on the way home (as hail and heavy rain were slamming me up and down the highway....AHHH!
), and I'm going to bet the TPS is bad. How it got that way.....I don't know. Maybe from the backfiring. The thing is, the ECU doesn't seem to register throttle angle at all.....revving up and down like it's hunting for signal and not finding one. The idle position seems to okay. As you could tell, it was idling evenly. Plus, as you could also noticed, the idle RPM did not shift down when we jumped the diagnostic terminals. But, do test it....I could be wrong. Have been before....
I spent a couple of hours over at Kyle's (quite the host, btw
) and we set about to adjust the valves. He decided on .007 intake and .011 (in in.'s), showed him how to set them and how it should feel sliding the gauge, and let him go to town. He's a quick study...lol. Anyway, the valves were WAY tight all around. Couldn't even get the feeler gauges in at first. While he was doing that, I looked over everything and except for the dashpot hose being connected to the vacuum port adapter....where the fuel pressure up valve, etc. connects....everything looked fine. Once he had the valves adjusted, it idle much, much better. But, the valves are still rather noisy. Not sure why, though. Could be a couple of different things, but it isn't the valve cover being too tight. The only other issue was the revving up and down upon throttle opening. It was pretty wild. I had to file through my memory banks and recalled running into the same condition before with my V6.....only in my case it was because I'd installed the dashpot mounting pin wrong. It's the same in the sense that his problem is related to throttle position and what the TPS is reading, but in his case it's the throttle sensor itself. Like Kyle said, we unplugged it and the motor was much happier.On that note.....Kyle,
I thought about it on the way home (as hail and heavy rain were slamming me up and down the highway....AHHH!
), and I'm going to bet the TPS is bad. How it got that way.....I don't know. Maybe from the backfiring. The thing is, the ECU doesn't seem to register throttle angle at all.....revving up and down like it's hunting for signal and not finding one. The idle position seems to okay. As you could tell, it was idling evenly. Plus, as you could also noticed, the idle RPM did not shift down when we jumped the diagnostic terminals. But, do test it....I could be wrong. Have been before....
Last edited by thook; 05-10-2008 at 06:02 PM.
05-10-2008, 06:06 PM
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Matthew-
That was great thing that you went to help Kyle out. Also, thanks for catching my flub about the valve clearance. I freaked out and called Kyle but he told me that you two realized the error and set it straight. I also did suggest that he recheck those clearances with the engine fully warmed up.
I spoke with him after you left and mentioned that he should loosen and rotate the TPS a bit until he hears the engine change idle speed when the TPS sends the proper signal to the ECU. He said he'd try to do it but went out and bought a new TPS from the auto-parts store anyways.
I told him that the ECU won't go into the proper mode for adjusting the timing if the TPS doesn't send the right signal to the ECU about being at idle. Oh well. I guess we'll see what the next few hours bring.
On the other hand, he says it's running pretty good except for the valve noise (he was in a drive-thru somewhere) but I couldn't tell if he was in the truck.
That was great thing that you went to help Kyle out. Also, thanks for catching my flub about the valve clearance. I freaked out and called Kyle but he told me that you two realized the error and set it straight. I also did suggest that he recheck those clearances with the engine fully warmed up.
I spoke with him after you left and mentioned that he should loosen and rotate the TPS a bit until he hears the engine change idle speed when the TPS sends the proper signal to the ECU. He said he'd try to do it but went out and bought a new TPS from the auto-parts store anyways.
I told him that the ECU won't go into the proper mode for adjusting the timing if the TPS doesn't send the right signal to the ECU about being at idle. Oh well. I guess we'll see what the next few hours bring.
On the other hand, he says it's running pretty good except for the valve noise (he was in a drive-thru somewhere) but I couldn't tell if he was in the truck.
05-10-2008, 06:44 PM
#92
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Lol...he was probably in his garage! That's where the truck is.
The only problem with rotating it while on the vehicle is the thermo housing is in the way to get to the bottom screw. It's not as easy of an ordeal as the 3.0 where nothing is in the way.
I'd suggested he take the TB off and test it that way....watching the ohm meter while moving the TPS. I suppose it's whatever he's up for, though.
I suspect he'll find the VTA circuit is bad. That's the track the reads throttle angle where the problem biggest problem is.....which would also screw up ECU timing advance. The idle circuit seemed to be intact as it was idling well. No idle fluctuation.... although, it was idling a bit high....hmmm.
Yep....I guess we'll see!
The only problem with rotating it while on the vehicle is the thermo housing is in the way to get to the bottom screw. It's not as easy of an ordeal as the 3.0 where nothing is in the way.
I'd suggested he take the TB off and test it that way....watching the ohm meter while moving the TPS. I suppose it's whatever he's up for, though.
I suspect he'll find the VTA circuit is bad. That's the track the reads throttle angle where the problem biggest problem is.....which would also screw up ECU timing advance. The idle circuit seemed to be intact as it was idling well. No idle fluctuation.... although, it was idling a bit high....hmmm.
Yep....I guess we'll see!
05-10-2008, 06:47 PM
#93
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Hey guys! Yeah, just got back home and finished off some KFC. Many many many thanks to Matthew and Kirk for their help with this. So sorry to put you out there with that crazy weather Matthew. I did pull the distributor and turn it back (CCW) one notch and the truck ran nicely. Sill have the issue with the surging though, so I did go ahead and get a new TPS from Autozone. It's crazy, because it comes in a box branded with a name I've never seen before, the guys at autozone says it's a "duralast" part, and the thing looks identical to the one you have on your truck Matthew - Says Toyota, Denso, etc. I'll take a pic and show you later. I'm going to turn in early tonight, and go to work on it tomorrow. The girlfriend is getting jealous of the Toyota, so I'm gonna spend some time with her this evening.
I got to put about 10 miles on the truck earlier tonight. Sure was nice! I miss the view from up there
Anyway, I hope to put these good tips I've collected today to good use tomorrow when I go about trouble shooting the TPS. The weather is supposed to be nice, so I'll even give her a bath I hope!
Goodnight,
Kyle
I got to put about 10 miles on the truck earlier tonight. Sure was nice! I miss the view from up there
Anyway, I hope to put these good tips I've collected today to good use tomorrow when I go about trouble shooting the TPS. The weather is supposed to be nice, so I'll even give her a bath I hope!
Goodnight,
Kyle
05-10-2008, 07:00 PM
#95
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If it says Denso on the unit, then it's a Denso and (correction) Auto Zone just put it in a box with their in house brand name on it. Retail suppliers do that all the time. Called "OEM distributors".
BTW, no apologies necessary, Kyle. I was there of my own volition. Besides......the ride home was rather exciting! Haha!
BTW, no apologies necessary, Kyle. I was there of my own volition. Besides......the ride home was rather exciting! Haha!
Last edited by thook; 05-10-2008 at 07:05 PM.
05-11-2008, 01:38 PM
#96
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Thread Starter
I did find a rather large "dab" of oil on the concrete in the garage this morning about 6" in diameter. Motor oil. 
Looks to be coming from where the tranny meets the engine, but I didn't investigate further. Probably the rear main seal with my luck, but I'm not sure how/why it would be.
Well, I just started playing with the TPS a few minutes ago (took me about 3 hours to get the garage back in order. I couldn't stand the chaos anymore.
I did get some response out of it, so it's not completely dead. I turned it CCW (as viewed from the driver's side) and the idle dropped. Going the other way made it increase. I also found that when turned CCW, I was able to get it to respond to the input on the diagnostic plug, which I think is a good thing. I did notice that when reving it up, it did protest with a slight fuel cut, and then it revved on up. I wouldn't say it's working, but it might not be as "broken" as I figured. I'm about to go read up on how to adjust these things. Kirk gave me some good tips yesterday also.
Anyway, that's the latest. Didn't fool with the valves yet. Figure I'll give them a few hundred miles at least to see if they wear in a little better. Truck runs great. Although I haven't been flogging it, I can tell that it pulls hills in high gear better than it used to.
Looks to be coming from where the tranny meets the engine, but I didn't investigate further. Probably the rear main seal with my luck, but I'm not sure how/why it would be. Well, I just started playing with the TPS a few minutes ago (took me about 3 hours to get the garage back in order. I couldn't stand the chaos anymore.
I did get some response out of it, so it's not completely dead. I turned it CCW (as viewed from the driver's side) and the idle dropped. Going the other way made it increase. I also found that when turned CCW, I was able to get it to respond to the input on the diagnostic plug, which I think is a good thing. I did notice that when reving it up, it did protest with a slight fuel cut, and then it revved on up. I wouldn't say it's working, but it might not be as "broken" as I figured. I'm about to go read up on how to adjust these things. Kirk gave me some good tips yesterday also.
Anyway, that's the latest. Didn't fool with the valves yet. Figure I'll give them a few hundred miles at least to see if they wear in a little better. Truck runs great. Although I haven't been flogging it, I can tell that it pulls hills in high gear better than it used to.
05-11-2008, 01:53 PM
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Glad to hear things are getting back in order.
I wouldn't be surprised if you find some oil leaking from the back of the valve cover what with it going on and off so many times.
Anyways, have fun!
I wouldn't be surprised if you find some oil leaking from the back of the valve cover what with it going on and off so many times.
Anyways, have fun!
05-11-2008, 02:06 PM
#98
Registered User
Well, Kyle, if it is leaking from the rear main, don't feel too bad. Mine has too, and I installed it proper like. Just have to wait for the next clutch replacement unless gets unbearable.
But, if it's the valve cover like Kirk said, that's where the RTV on the half moons comes in to play......like we'd talked about.....on top the corners of the seals.
Oh....and Kirk, be sure to visit the...uh..."rainbow parade"...hehe!
But, if it's the valve cover like Kirk said, that's where the RTV on the half moons comes in to play......like we'd talked about.....on top the corners of the seals.
Oh....and Kirk, be sure to visit the...uh..."rainbow parade"...hehe!
05-19-2008, 05:20 PM
#99
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Thread Starter
Well - Been a while since the last update. Bought a new TPS and tried to install it this evening, but I'm having some trouble. When installed, and rotated so that the ears line up with the bolt/screw holes, it actually opens the throttle. As you can imagine, this is not good, as the engine starts and immediately revs to over 3k (before I shut it off) just like as though you had the pedal down.
Am I missing something? I assumed these things were plug and play. Is there something I need to adjust?
However, I suspect that this is only the beginning of my issues, as when I hooked this up, and it did begin to rev it did it's ole rev up, down, up, down, up down... Yikes. So maybe it wasn't the TPS afterall... Argh!
The last picture is to show the gap between the throttle and the set screw. Thus the rev upon startup. And yes, this is with the TPS turned as far (CW from driver's side) as possible, and thus the lowest idle possible.
Am I missing something? I assumed these things were plug and play. Is there something I need to adjust?
However, I suspect that this is only the beginning of my issues, as when I hooked this up, and it did begin to rev it did it's ole rev up, down, up, down, up down... Yikes. So maybe it wasn't the TPS afterall... Argh!
The last picture is to show the gap between the throttle and the set screw. Thus the rev upon startup. And yes, this is with the TPS turned as far (CW from driver's side) as possible, and thus the lowest idle possible.
05-19-2008, 05:45 PM
#100
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Well - Been a while since the last update. Bought a new TPS and tried to install it this evening, but I'm having some trouble. When installed, and rotated so that the ears line up with the bolt/screw holes, it actually opens the throttle. As you can imagine, this is not good, as the engine starts and immediately revs to over 3k (before I shut it off) just like as though you had the pedal down.
Am I missing something? I assumed these things were plug and play. Is there something I need to adjust?
However, I suspect that this is only the beginning of my issues, as when I hooked this up, and it did begin to rev it did it's ole rev up, down, up, down, up down... Yikes. So maybe it wasn't the TPS afterall... Argh!
The last picture is to show the gap between the throttle and the set screw. Thus the rev upon startup. And yes, this is with the TPS turned as far (CW from driver's side) as possible, and thus the lowest idle possible.
Am I missing something? I assumed these things were plug and play. Is there something I need to adjust?
However, I suspect that this is only the beginning of my issues, as when I hooked this up, and it did begin to rev it did it's ole rev up, down, up, down, up down... Yikes. So maybe it wasn't the TPS afterall... Argh!
The last picture is to show the gap between the throttle and the set screw. Thus the rev upon startup. And yes, this is with the TPS turned as far (CW from driver's side) as possible, and thus the lowest idle possible.
TPS problem...
I believe you're setting the spring loaded mechanism at the back of the TPS against the tangs on the TB wrong. It shouldn't be move the throttle plate when you turn...and, this would explain the same up/down scenario and the very high idle. The TPS signal, in this case, would be out of range for the ECU to detect idle and throttle angle.
The flat side of the TPS lever should seat against the tangs.....not the [ / ] shaped side. Do you follow what I mean? People have run into this problem before (in fact, long time ago I did, as well) and wondered why they couldn't get the TPS to line up or adjust.
About the stop screw.....
There's two possibilities from what I can gather in the pics. Either the screw is not adjusted out far enough, or the dashpot is stuck causing the throttle plate to hang open.
See if the plunger on the dashpot will push in. I also remember you're not having the filter/vacuum valve on the air purge port on the dashpot. It wouldn't cause what you're seeing, but I was just wondering if you had taken care of that, yet. Won't hurt anything if you didn't....just don't hook it back up the intake plenum like it was.
