More 3vz-e exhaust questions.
07-12-2006, 03:05 PM
#1
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More 3vz-e exhaust x-over pipe elimination questions.
I spent a lot of time searching the site today, and "thanks" is in order. Lot's of good info here for sure.
In all my search I cam up with a couple questions I either missed the answers to or the questions haven't been posted here yet.
1. Can the stock crossover pipe be removed with out pulling the engine or the tranny?
2. Does a pass side manifold bolt to a driver's side head with the outlet pointing rearward (to mirror the pass side manifold config)?
3. Is 2.5" pipe from the headers acceptable for use as long as it is wrapped to retain heat (and thereby retain scavaging effect)?
4. When eliminating the x-over pipe, on the driver side manifold, is it better to cap off the inlet port where the x-over came in and use the original outlet for the down pipe, or, is it better to to cap off the original downpipe outlet and run the down pipe from where the xover inlet is (again to mirror the pass side setup?)
Thanks.
AJ
1-ton Toy
In all my search I cam up with a couple questions I either missed the answers to or the questions haven't been posted here yet.
1. Can the stock crossover pipe be removed with out pulling the engine or the tranny?
2. Does a pass side manifold bolt to a driver's side head with the outlet pointing rearward (to mirror the pass side manifold config)?
3. Is 2.5" pipe from the headers acceptable for use as long as it is wrapped to retain heat (and thereby retain scavaging effect)?
4. When eliminating the x-over pipe, on the driver side manifold, is it better to cap off the inlet port where the x-over came in and use the original outlet for the down pipe, or, is it better to to cap off the original downpipe outlet and run the down pipe from where the xover inlet is (again to mirror the pass side setup?)
Thanks.
AJ
1-ton Toy
Last edited by AlaskaToy; 09-07-2006 at 07:32 PM.
07-13-2006, 07:20 AM
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Alaska,
I'm on this same track as well.....
Here's what I know.
I called a Toyota parts place and the passenger side manifold drops onto the drivers side almost 100%. Outlets line up. The only thing in question is apparently the center hole on the bottom is slightly off when the p-side is on the d-side. will need to widen that hole slightly to fit on exactly.
Mind you this was all done over the phone, but the guy went and got a passenger side mani and mounted on a block while I was on the phone and relayed this info to me.
On your other q's I dont know. I plan on taking some photos I've downloaded from here and go over the my exhaust place and see what they say. I *think* using the p-side mani would make options easier than trying to block off/weld up the d-side and using that. the shop can then fab the pipes from 2 straight back exits instead of trying to get funky with it. It's just my thought though. I believe it is feasible. Now I need to see if it can be done and not blow all my $$ doing it.
From what others have said here, there should be plenty of room to run 2 downpipes and tie in a y-pipe before the O2 sensor which would be the key.
Cheers,
Mike
I'm on this same track as well.....
Here's what I know.
I called a Toyota parts place and the passenger side manifold drops onto the drivers side almost 100%. Outlets line up. The only thing in question is apparently the center hole on the bottom is slightly off when the p-side is on the d-side. will need to widen that hole slightly to fit on exactly.
Mind you this was all done over the phone, but the guy went and got a passenger side mani and mounted on a block while I was on the phone and relayed this info to me.
On your other q's I dont know. I plan on taking some photos I've downloaded from here and go over the my exhaust place and see what they say. I *think* using the p-side mani would make options easier than trying to block off/weld up the d-side and using that. the shop can then fab the pipes from 2 straight back exits instead of trying to get funky with it. It's just my thought though. I believe it is feasible. Now I need to see if it can be done and not blow all my $$ doing it.
From what others have said here, there should be plenty of room to run 2 downpipes and tie in a y-pipe before the O2 sensor which would be the key.
Cheers,
Mike
Last edited by photomike72; 07-13-2006 at 07:21 AM.
07-13-2006, 03:40 PM
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I can say for certain that the passenger side manifold does fit onto the driver's side head. I physically grabbed my passenger one and it fit right over the driver's side exhaust studs, pointing/exiting rearward, with no modification at all. Maybe I was just lucky.
With the driver's side manifold, it's best to plug the x-over inlet and use the stock downpipe, because that's the best way that particular manifold flows. Then use the old x-over pipe for parts to fab the passenger side downpipe. The triangular flange CAN BE rotated so the pipe will point downward/back. It will point the exhaust right on the brake lines, so it needs to be rebent to the left (viewing from rear) and out/rearward from the engine. I want to do this to my truck someday as well. This mod is popular across the pond over in England and Australia, so it must work okay.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...t=77833&page=3
It's The 3.0 Build-up thread. Page 3, post #53 refers to this exhaust mod. It was quite helpful to me, and the first picture shows how the old x-over pipe was used with a Downey crossover (for their headers-you can order it separately, or build your own) to build a x-over delete kit.
I don't know what size pipe to recommend, except to try to keep it the same size as the driver's side to balance the flow. Well, maybe since the pass. exhaust has farther to go, it should be .25" smaller than the driver's side. At least if you stick with using the old x-pipe for parts, the size is already determined.
Don't know if the factory x-over can be removed easily, at least not without a 2" body lift. It might be possible if one or both exhaust manifolds were removed first. I guess you'll have to pioneer a way to get it out. Good luck with that! Hope this is helpful, and you git-r-done!
With the driver's side manifold, it's best to plug the x-over inlet and use the stock downpipe, because that's the best way that particular manifold flows. Then use the old x-over pipe for parts to fab the passenger side downpipe. The triangular flange CAN BE rotated so the pipe will point downward/back. It will point the exhaust right on the brake lines, so it needs to be rebent to the left (viewing from rear) and out/rearward from the engine. I want to do this to my truck someday as well. This mod is popular across the pond over in England and Australia, so it must work okay.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...t=77833&page=3
It's The 3.0 Build-up thread. Page 3, post #53 refers to this exhaust mod. It was quite helpful to me, and the first picture shows how the old x-over pipe was used with a Downey crossover (for their headers-you can order it separately, or build your own) to build a x-over delete kit.
I don't know what size pipe to recommend, except to try to keep it the same size as the driver's side to balance the flow. Well, maybe since the pass. exhaust has farther to go, it should be .25" smaller than the driver's side. At least if you stick with using the old x-pipe for parts, the size is already determined.
Don't know if the factory x-over can be removed easily, at least not without a 2" body lift. It might be possible if one or both exhaust manifolds were removed first. I guess you'll have to pioneer a way to get it out. Good luck with that! Hope this is helpful, and you git-r-done!
Last edited by Radyota; 09-01-2006 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Corrected info about triangular flange being able to rotate.
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
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Thanks for the replies!
I am working on an antiwrap setup for my front axle. Well, it is just one of the bazillion things on my list to do. When I started looking at where to mount the shackle, I decided I wanted it where the stock exhaust down tube was. Now rerouting the exhaust and installing my new 2.5" Magnaflow muffler is another item on my list, but until now, it was a low priority. So now I have to move it to the top of the list to facilitate mounting up the antiwrap crap.
It just so happens, a friend of mine recently installed a cat-back setup on his F150. Me being a scrounge, I took all his stock crap and leftover Flowmaster kit parts off his hands. I ended up with some quality 2.5" tube and assorted bends for nothing. Of course nothing is free, and neither is this project: My wife convinced me to run a cat, so I got a 2.5" unit from Summit. The Ford tail pipe has jsut the right bend and length to be the start of my system. I hacked the flange off my down tube and welded the section of Ford tailpipe to it. The system has ended up 2.5" from the stock manifold to the cat and then 2.5" from there to the muffler and tail pipe.
shortened behind-the-cat hanger to get the cat closer to the frame and keep it tucked up higher while still clearing the FRORFab x-member.
From the manifold to the cat...
Os sensor bung and sensor xferred over. New cat.
I am working on an antiwrap setup for my front axle. Well, it is just one of the bazillion things on my list to do. When I started looking at where to mount the shackle, I decided I wanted it where the stock exhaust down tube was. Now rerouting the exhaust and installing my new 2.5" Magnaflow muffler is another item on my list, but until now, it was a low priority. So now I have to move it to the top of the list to facilitate mounting up the antiwrap crap.
It just so happens, a friend of mine recently installed a cat-back setup on his F150. Me being a scrounge, I took all his stock crap and leftover Flowmaster kit parts off his hands. I ended up with some quality 2.5" tube and assorted bends for nothing. Of course nothing is free, and neither is this project: My wife convinced me to run a cat, so I got a 2.5" unit from Summit. The Ford tail pipe has jsut the right bend and length to be the start of my system. I hacked the flange off my down tube and welded the section of Ford tailpipe to it. The system has ended up 2.5" from the stock manifold to the cat and then 2.5" from there to the muffler and tail pipe.
shortened behind-the-cat hanger to get the cat closer to the frame and keep it tucked up higher while still clearing the FRORFab x-member.
From the manifold to the cat...
Os sensor bung and sensor xferred over. New cat.
Last edited by AlaskaToy; 07-13-2006 at 05:05 PM.
07-13-2006, 05:07 PM
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Cat-back pics:
This setup is very quiet. Much quieter than I anticipated. The paint is simply rustoleum grill/barbeque paint. I noticed it looks fine after running the truck back an forth to work except for the weld locatioins. At the welds the paint is all bubbled and peeling. I assume one of two causes: 1. I simply did a poor prep job around the welds befor painting. or 2. The welds are hotter due to more metal in that area and as a result, is retaining more heat, causing the paint to blister and peel. Hopefuly it's the former; I cat reprep and repaint when I eliminate the x-over pipe behind the engine. But of course that's the whole point: the project just got bigger because I am hell bent on getting that silly x-over pipe out of there....
This setup is very quiet. Much quieter than I anticipated. The paint is simply rustoleum grill/barbeque paint. I noticed it looks fine after running the truck back an forth to work except for the weld locatioins. At the welds the paint is all bubbled and peeling. I assume one of two causes: 1. I simply did a poor prep job around the welds befor painting. or 2. The welds are hotter due to more metal in that area and as a result, is retaining more heat, causing the paint to blister and peel. Hopefuly it's the former; I cat reprep and repaint when I eliminate the x-over pipe behind the engine. But of course that's the whole point: the project just got bigger because I am hell bent on getting that silly x-over pipe out of there....
Last edited by AlaskaToy; 07-13-2006 at 05:09 PM.
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07-15-2006, 01:34 PM
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Radyota,
Would you reccomend using 2 p-side manifold gaskets if using 2 p-side manifolds, or using a d-side gasket and a p-side gasket?
Does anyone know where to have custom copper gaskets cut? I will be getting 2 manifolds this week and starting my project.
stay tuned. I'll take pics and post updates when I get it going.
Mike
Would you reccomend using 2 p-side manifold gaskets if using 2 p-side manifolds, or using a d-side gasket and a p-side gasket?
Does anyone know where to have custom copper gaskets cut? I will be getting 2 manifolds this week and starting my project.
stay tuned. I'll take pics and post updates when I get it going.
Mike
07-16-2006, 04:14 PM
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crawled under today. Sawzall will reach the bends near the flanges on either side with the down pipe and driveshaft removed. I'll cut it off, pull it out, block off the pass-side flange & reroute, and block off the d/s flange. pics later
07-16-2006, 04:34 PM
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Word. I'm moving forward as well. ordering 2 p-side manifolds tomorrow, will have them smoothed out, Jet Hot coated and new downpipes and y-pipe made as soon as I can get those in and sent out and back to me.
Pics would be great. I'll post as soon as I get mine going as well.
Mike
Pics would be great. I'll post as soon as I get mine going as well.
Mike
07-16-2006, 06:27 PM
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Smoothed and coated?! You are going way further than me. Main goal for me is to save #6 as long as possible and maybe another half a horse....
Post some pics...
Post some pics...
07-16-2006, 06:47 PM
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That was the brainchild of a buddy of mine who used to race. good thing though is he is on board with the project and he knows what he's doing. I'm liking the way he's thinking.
It turns out that my p-side manifold gasket is leaking as well as the crossover connection at the d-side manifold. I'm tired of replacing gaskets and re-tightening these connections. If I can get that pipe gone and it'll reduce my chances of yet another rebuild on my engine then it's goood enough for me to try it.
Are you planning on adding any additional heat shielding to the firewall where the new p-side pipe will route? I may as I dont think it can hurt. I'm still working out the details in my head.
I'll have more in a few days.
Mike
It turns out that my p-side manifold gasket is leaking as well as the crossover connection at the d-side manifold. I'm tired of replacing gaskets and re-tightening these connections. If I can get that pipe gone and it'll reduce my chances of yet another rebuild on my engine then it's goood enough for me to try it.
Are you planning on adding any additional heat shielding to the firewall where the new p-side pipe will route? I may as I dont think it can hurt. I'm still working out the details in my head.
I'll have more in a few days.
Mike
Last edited by photomike72; 07-16-2006 at 06:51 PM.
07-17-2006, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by photomike72
Are you planning on adding any additional heat shielding to the firewall where the new p-side pipe will route? I may as I dont think it can hurt. I'm still working out the details in my head.
Mike
Mike
07-30-2006, 02:29 PM
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Ok. the x-over is a mean SOB to remove with out pulling the engine. I did it, but what a PITA.
Its out. No one said the heat shield encased a flex tube. If I'd have known that, I wouldn't have hacked it in half on the chop saw. Oh well.
Its out. No one said the heat shield encased a flex tube. If I'd have known that, I wouldn't have hacked it in half on the chop saw. Oh well.
09-01-2006, 12:35 PM
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Sorry it took so long to reply. Yes, I would use the correct exhaust man. gaskets for their respective sides of the engine, being that they're formed to fully protect and shield the spark plugs/wires from the manifold heat. I'm doing a very basic crossover delete, and I've already hacked apart the pipe and plugged up the driver's side flange. I'm committed now! When I get more $$ I'll get the pass. stub pipe/bend re-bent so it doesn't blow onto the brake/fuel lines, and extend it downward (temporarily) and run it wide open that way to an exhaust shop and get the rest of it done. Should be loud! I'll be happy just to hear it run again! Hope that answers some ?'s. 
09-01-2006, 01:37 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Radyota
...The triangular flange CAN BE rotated so the pipe will point downward/back. ...
With my truck, no the triangular flange will NOT fit ANY other way than stock...believe me I was thinking about doing this and was playing with it. But I think im going to source a right hand exhaust manifold and cut up my xover and make po boy headers!
09-01-2006, 03:07 PM
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Were you talking about the driver's side?
In my quote I meant that ONLY the passenger side of the crossover pipe could be rotated, or "clocked" on it's original mating surface. I know I was probably a little vague in that area (trying to keep it short). Only the passenger side flange is truly "triangular", the driver's side has a longer side in which the holes/studs are further apart, so the driver's side cannot be rotated. I cut off the driver's side flange, had a large washer welded inside of it (with the hole welded closed), and I will bolt that back on with a new gasket. I am retaining the original downpipe, only now it will only carry the driver's side exhaust. Later I will have a separate pipe from the pass. side fabbed up and merged into the original exhaust just upstream of the O2 sensor. Hope I was clearer this time! 
09-07-2006, 06:34 PM
#19
Nice - hope it works out for you and you post whether you are happy with the effort/cost.
I've subscribed to this thread as I cannot stomach the thought of spending a bunch of $ on a header that burns your starter, carpet, etc. and provides minimal gain. I hope your solution works better.
I've subscribed to this thread as I cannot stomach the thought of spending a bunch of $ on a header that burns your starter, carpet, etc. and provides minimal gain. I hope your solution works better.
09-08-2006, 06:24 AM
#20
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Downeys apparently do that, but ive never heard of that issue with NWOR. (Who also has horrid customer service...lol)
Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; 09-08-2006 at 06:25 AM.
