SwampThing

Well, a buddy of mine who owns an offroading shop offered to weld the spider gears on my front diff for $50.

They did the same thing to my rear end a couple years ago, and it's worked great. Used nickle rod so it wouldn't rust and all that, and have had zero problems with it (even driving around with pure water lubing the gears for a few months before I made my diff breathers lol).

Now my question. Would yall do it? I mean I know all about binding it up while driving in 4wd on dry pavement and all that, but I do have manual locking hubs, and I next to never drive with 4wd in engaged on any pavement, but I was just wondering about what yall think about it. Sure would help in those sticky situations ya know? Dunno, yall give me yer opinions!

And I'll more than likely be able to take pictures of em doin, so I can do a writeup for yall do-it-yourself'ers.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

If you're just having fun with your truck, just go ahread and do it, the added traction would be sweet.

If you decide you hate it, there are TONS of left-over IFS third members on the board you can swap back in... I mean, I have one I'll sell ya, it's an open 4.10

AxleIke

the trouble with the front being full time spooled is that you greatly reduce your ablitlity to steer. So, if you only wheel in very low traction environments, such as mud or sand, you'd be okay. But if i lock my front ARB and try to turn on any kind of rock, or even hard dirt, i can barely make the wheel move. I would strongly recommend against doing this.

dcg9381

Agree.. off road, with a locker engaged, expect to have 25-45% of your current turning capacity.

The other issue with a welded up front is stress on the 3rd and associated axles.. Course, that's an issue with a locker also.

If you run in 4wd on the road at all, I wouldn't do it.

AP4CHE

Why don't you pt an aussie locker up front? They're not that expensive.

AH64ID

I thought you guys were covered in ice right now... You would only be able to go straight on a snow/ice coverd road....

SwampThing

Nah, we just defrosted lol. We wont get another freeze like that for 10 more years, so we enjoyed it while we could lol.

But I thought the diff in the front didn't matter a bit, if the xcase is in 2hi, and the front hubs are unlocked? And no, I next to never (wierd wording?) drive it 4wd on paved roads of any kind in any weather now that I hooked up my rear brakes.

drew303

Don't do it. I think you will regret it.

an auto locker is a nightmare, spools are even worse. IMO.

infact I'd never spool or weld any dif. Its just to dangerous on any high friction surface IMO. I had a DUMB friend almost die on a highway because the idiot welded his rear-end. The rear axles siezed when the differential fell apart.

BE CAREFUL. You get what you pay for.

AxleIke

I wasn't talking about pavement.

Simply put, you cannot steer with a spooled front. If you are in mud, sand, you can turn the wheel, but you will have a turn radius of about 1 mile.

If you are not in those two conditions, so, say, if you are on a dirt road, a dirt track, rocks, etc, you will have diffiuclty even turning the steering wheel.

That being said, here is my thread on modifications. I think number one would apply here.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f5/thoughts-modifications-guidelines-think-104344/

AH64ID

If your hubs are unlocked then no it wont matter, but normally on snowy/ice roads people use 4wd, you would have no steering ability.. in addition too what axleike says... it simply a bad idea....

Now if you were inclined you could put a ADD front in, weld it.. and wire the acuator to a switch, would be like a cheap ARB... allowing you to have steering capiblities...

tc

x2

and getting out to unlock a hub or fighting the "3WD" torque steer gets old FAST. You'll also smoke power steering pumps, which are not fun to change (at least on the 3.0 they're not)

AxleIke

PS pumps aren't fun to change period. A lot of mess, and a lot of work, and a lot of money.

If you do this, and then decide it was a bad idea, i've got a diff i'll sell you

SwampThing

Lol well I WAS thinking about droppin some 5.29s in it... Dunno, people told me the same thing about welding the rear, and it was a little "different" driving it on the high way, but I got used to it. The times it's saved me from gettin stuck far outweigh the annoyance of chirping your tires and having a little faster tread wear.

Dunno, I'm still on the fence. As far as driving on ice, at lease here in southern texas, is a rare occurance. Maybe one or two days every 5 years or so, and the who city shuts down, so not like your really driving anywhere anyways.

But it seems to me (and maybe I'm just interpriting wrongly), that what yall are sayin is driving with a front locker (be it welded, lunchbox, arb, ect...) is horrible. I don't know what kind of mud and trails yall drive through, or how for that matter, but every vehicle I've driven with a selectible locker in the front has help enormously while trying to navigate in the mud. Seems like yall's only issue is it's "selectability" if you will. And I mean it doesn't bother me the slightest hopping out in 3' of slushy mud and diggin down to lock my hubs. To me thats just part of the fun when I go offroading lol.

But I aint tryin to preach or anything, I'm just trying to better understand what yall'er tryin to drive through my thick skull lol.

tc

no, no, no, no - IMHO a front locker makes MORE of a difference than a rear locker on an IFS truck! There are, however, CONSIDERABLE downsides to having the front locked - namely steering on high traction surfaces. In Moab, I can't turn AT ALL on the slickrock with the front locked - it's VERY nice to be able turn it off. Now a Detroit or a lunchbox would probably be better in that situation because they do allow for SOME differentiation, but welded is the same as spooled which is what an ARB is when locked.

If you're only going to use the truck for muddin', then go ahead and weld it up. But if this is a general trail vehicle, I would consider other options...

AxleIke

The point is not that its different to drive.

Yes, when going straight, you would be fine, and it would help.

In mud, when you turn the front wheels with the front spooled, you will turn full right, say, and the truck will BARELY turn. This is because the wheels will be pushing at the same speed, and will not move the front of the truck around quickly.

It reduces turning ability in low traction environments, and makes turning impossible on high traction surfaces.

Its fine if you are getting out to unlock hubs, but if you have to make a turn in a mud pit, and have to unlock a hub, then you have defeated the point of welding the front, as you suddenly have an open diff, and cannot go anywhere.

Really its up to you.

SwampThing

Yeah, thats all I basically use it for. Copious amounts of mud. We never have any snow here, no sand (though thats my next question), no huge rock yards, and if it's just trail ridin, it's usually just a plain old trail to get to a mud pit.

Now on occasion I do take it to the south padre island, or port aransas (spring break central down here in texas), and I was wondering about locked front diffs on the beach? I know it's not a high tract surface, but you never know... I've never driven a front locked vehicle on sand, so my experties in that area is lackin.

shaeff

i see that nobody's mentioned the tru-trac for the front. wouldn't that be ideal for turning, while maintaining decent traction? lock the rear, (or grab an e-locker and retrofit), and tru-trac the front.

after much consideration, that's the route i'm going. my truck is a general trail vehicle, and daily driver. a tru-trac would be much better for snow, and in NY, we get lots of snow. (aside from this really strange winter...?)

-shaeff

Intrepid

An autolocker is great, I have one, run it on and off road, no complaints, I also run a welded diff up front, no complaints at all. Welding a diff WILL NOT cause it to blow up, that is bullÅÅÅÅ. If done right it will work fine. Your dumb friend did something else wrong.

I would not suggest running a welded front end on IFS though. It is too hard on the axle shafts IMO, but if it is a trail rig, you could do it, if it destroys your front end, SAS and lock that.

I ran a welded front end on stock steering on my '85, I loved it, it was harder to steer, but when on rock or hard dirt, you just have to give it a little gas as you are turning and it is fine, but your turning radius is much wider. I swapped to hi-steer and it steers like a dream. No trouble at all, I have been running it like that for a while now and have no complaints. I am planning to switch my front and rear diffs so that my rear is welded and my front has the lockright mainly because I figure it would be easier on birfs, haven't had a problem yet, but I figure it is preventative maintenance, haha. Lacking the money for 30 spline longs, I need to do whatever I can to help out my poor birfs.
That all being said, I also have a spare IFS diff to sell you if you want to experiment.

mt_goat

X2 or X3 (I lost count). Ask anyone with a selectable front locker, you had better be ready to go in a straight line once you hit that switch. You will not like it locked all the time, much different than having the rear locked, your rear wheels are always going straight anyway.

idayota

i bought my 84' runner with a weld-a-trac front...and to be honest, its a toss up. sure it is hard to steer at times, expecially when there is weight on the front end with a good tractions surface below it. a little bit of velocity helps a ton, but it is still stiff. i've got crossover steering with fj-80 ends and i still worry that the amount of force required to steer my tires is going to break something. also, in deep snow, ive notice that the front end has a tendancy to plow instead of turn right away. instead of the tires leading the vehicle around a corner, they plow forward because it has less resistance than force required to make the corner skipping a tire (at least that is what i've come to conclude in my own mind...if that makes any sense at all). in any case, it is hard to steer and i wish i had an arb, but for us poor boys, it is tough to beat. save up and go with a lock-right or something to improve it some, or weld it solid, save up for the big e-locker or arb down the road. in the end, i think you would have to drive one a fair distance to make up your own mind. there are days i love it, and days i hate it, but i've not broken a birfield (again, mine is a solid front end) and it has gotten me places that a lot of guys wouldnt think i would go. one more thought...on road characteristics on a skiff of snow in 4hi or 4low suck! i've gone to turning one hub in and it seems to be pretty good, but i've never done it at speed, just putting to and from work in rush hour traffic with 1/2 inch of snow. and that's my $0.02 worth.