How can I get some rear flex??
10-30-2007, 09:10 PM
#61
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If you want to do a chevy swap we can do that too, but I do have to give my boss a small fee for using his welding equipment and shop so it may run you a little more, and we will definitely have to change the shock mounts from stock. How about we just do shackles and shocks for now....You will be plenty happy, we'll stuff some chevies under there later on if you really think you need them. But just removing the "helper" shocks and extra coils in the rear without even installing shocks would be an improvement over what's there already.
10-30-2007, 09:11 PM
#62
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That isn't the best way to do that. Some claim to have had success. As with many of these concocted ways of surviving snow with an auto or spool up front, I have tried this, since my front locker goes on and off with a button.
Here is the deal with snow and lockers that don't turn off.
In snow, around a turn, these lockers will sometimes unlock, and sometimes not, depending on whether you are powering, and if the tires are slipping enough. When they don't, you are spooled. When I lock my ARB, I am spooled as well. So, in an empty, icy parking lot, in 4wd at about 5mph, i tried this. Going straight. i then turned the wheel....kept turning....kept turning....and I hit full lock on the steering, fully to the left. My truck was still traveling straight. No deviation. So, to be fair, i performed the same test in 4wd, same speed, but this time with the locker unlocked. Turned immediately.
on a separate occasion, I locked only one of my hubs, in both 4wd open and 4wd locked. Both ways, the truck pulled HARD to the side that was locked in. I could control it, but it wasn't easy. The truck DID turn however, but as traction changed the truck would buck pretty hard. I drove down the street by my place. On ice/snowpack, it was okay, i could keep the wheel canted over, and stay straight on the road. As soon as I hit anything else, say, gravel, or a clear spot, the truck would jerk hard to the side that was locked. Almost lost it once, when the clear spot was on the hub locked side, and the other 3 tires were on snow, truck spun sideways slightly, but i was going slow enough to correct.
As I said, there are a few folks who've said they've done this, and been okay. I'll never do it again.
Here is the deal with snow and lockers that don't turn off.
In snow, around a turn, these lockers will sometimes unlock, and sometimes not, depending on whether you are powering, and if the tires are slipping enough. When they don't, you are spooled. When I lock my ARB, I am spooled as well. So, in an empty, icy parking lot, in 4wd at about 5mph, i tried this. Going straight. i then turned the wheel....kept turning....kept turning....and I hit full lock on the steering, fully to the left. My truck was still traveling straight. No deviation. So, to be fair, i performed the same test in 4wd, same speed, but this time with the locker unlocked. Turned immediately.
on a separate occasion, I locked only one of my hubs, in both 4wd open and 4wd locked. Both ways, the truck pulled HARD to the side that was locked in. I could control it, but it wasn't easy. The truck DID turn however, but as traction changed the truck would buck pretty hard. I drove down the street by my place. On ice/snowpack, it was okay, i could keep the wheel canted over, and stay straight on the road. As soon as I hit anything else, say, gravel, or a clear spot, the truck would jerk hard to the side that was locked. Almost lost it once, when the clear spot was on the hub locked side, and the other 3 tires were on snow, truck spun sideways slightly, but i was going slow enough to correct.
As I said, there are a few folks who've said they've done this, and been okay. I'll never do it again.
10-30-2007, 09:50 PM
#63
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2x that just not the wife bit hahaha
jump out there and spend the money so i will know what route to go.
i am either gonna have to get off this forum, or put my wife to work. not being able to spend money on my junk to keep up with you guys is making me
10-31-2007, 04:01 PM
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after going through this thread and realizing that you arent very familiar with all of this, i thought i would suggest a few things:
First thing to do is cut out the coil spring that is welded in there. then take off those coilover shocks. then get/make some longer shackles to get you back close to the height you were, but keep the originaly leafs. the originals flex decent...definetly way better than you front IFS. i wouldnt recommend buying bilsteins right now. i would get some cheap ones either from PORC or your local parts store. and when you decide to go all out i would either do the chevy spring swap or some other quality lift springs like Marlins. after that then pay for the bilsteins. but doing this still leaves you with the ty IFS, so its up to you from there.
First thing to do is cut out the coil spring that is welded in there. then take off those coilover shocks. then get/make some longer shackles to get you back close to the height you were, but keep the originaly leafs. the originals flex decent...definetly way better than you front IFS. i wouldnt recommend buying bilsteins right now. i would get some cheap ones either from PORC or your local parts store. and when you decide to go all out i would either do the chevy spring swap or some other quality lift springs like Marlins. after that then pay for the bilsteins. but doing this still leaves you with the ty IFS, so its up to you from there.
10-31-2007, 04:23 PM
#65
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Listen to IV runner. This whole thread was started because you wanted a little more flex. We just need to get rid of that coil crap, level the rear the RIGHT way, and get you some new shocks all around. You will be happy. When you do upgrade more, the shackles are still use-able, and you will know more of what you want, whether it's longer leaf springs, or a chevy swap etc. PS if you have a garage, I'm dragging all my tools to your house to do this work, it's cold up here lol.
Last edited by Luvmeye22re; 10-31-2007 at 04:25 PM.
10-31-2007, 04:24 PM
#66
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after going through this thread and realizing that you arent very familiar with all of this, i thought i would suggest a few things:
First thing to do is cut out the coil spring that is welded in there. then take off those coilover shocks. then get/make some longer shackles to get you back close to the height you were, but keep the originaly leafs. the originals flex decent...definetly way better than you front IFS. i wouldnt recommend buying bilsteins right now. i would get some cheap ones either from PORC or your local parts store. and when you decide to go all out i would either do the chevy spring swap or some other quality lift springs like Marlins. after that then pay for the bilsteins. but doing this still leaves you with the ty IFS, so its up to you from there.
First thing to do is cut out the coil spring that is welded in there. then take off those coilover shocks. then get/make some longer shackles to get you back close to the height you were, but keep the originaly leafs. the originals flex decent...definetly way better than you front IFS. i wouldnt recommend buying bilsteins right now. i would get some cheap ones either from PORC or your local parts store. and when you decide to go all out i would either do the chevy spring swap or some other quality lift springs like Marlins. after that then pay for the bilsteins. but doing this still leaves you with the ty IFS, so its up to you from there.
They are a great shock. Cutting off the crap to put on different crap? That sounds pretty bogus.
Best springs would be Alcan. They can custom build him a pack that wouldn't need any welding or modification to fit. Marlin is good too, as are the chevies. However, hes on a budget, and doesn't seem to want to do the welding aspect. I agree that shackles are probably the way to go for him, but why spend money on cheap shocks, only to put on the good stuff later?
10-31-2007, 04:30 PM
#67
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I'm still convinced it's all that extra coil garbage in the back, imagine having a stock 4runner that doesn't do as well as a stock 4runner? I'd be pissed! All he needs is some REAL suspension tuning, and some good shocks. Who ever puts coil springs in the back of a toy with a leaf spring setup whether coils over the bumps or coil helper shocks just to level the vehicle is just putting a small bandaid over a gaping wound that desperately needs stitches. It works to level a vehicle, but hampers flex, and can make for a very stiff ride. I've bought 2 vehicles like that and the coils were the first thing to go. I'm sorry it is just a stupid idea, and it almost makes me mad that people do it lol
10-31-2007, 04:34 PM
#68
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I agree 100%. The coils are screwing him. I think he should go with his stock leafs, some longer shackles to even out the ride, and a good set of shocks. I was disagreeing with the notion of putting on garbage shocks.
10-31-2007, 04:40 PM
#69
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Even with garbage shocks, he wants more flex. I told him I would help him for the sake of him not blowing a ton of cash, and because I like to work on toys 
I'll get it right for him and make him post some pics.
I'll get it right for him and make him post some pics.
10-31-2007, 05:24 PM
#71
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yeah, common sense tells you it's not a good idea in the snow. Most 4wd's plow steer with an open diff in the snow, and a front locker will make you plow steer and dry pavement in 4wd so to have one ONLY in the front would be almost suicide.
10-31-2007, 07:45 PM
#72
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Thank you guys for the help. Seriously if it wasn't for YT, I'd wouldn't know where to start. It's good to get honest opinions. What I have decided so far is to get the Bilsteins. Probably the HD's because I they think they will be the best for the use my truck will get. I've read posts of people getting over 150k miles on them! For only an extra $100 more, I think it's worth it. Although, for only $30 more, those 5100's are damn tempting.
I'm stuck on the shackle vs leafs! I can either spend $75 for some nice shackles, or get some OME leafs for $240. I don't mind spending the cash for the right stuff, but I don't want to spend extra loot for stuff I may never take advantage of like an SAS, Chevy springs, etc.
I emailed someone at 4x4connection and he said honestly to get leafs because shackles are only a temporary cure. I don't know enough about this stuff yet, but I like the shackle plan too, but how and why would I need to spend more money on the leafs later? If that's true, I will be spending more in the long run right? If I get the shackles and I don't plan on lifting the truck, how can I reuse the shackles? My conclusion is if I get 3" leafs or 6" shackles, my truck will sit at the same height as now right? And when I get the Bj spacers (soon), I can install them, and relax them to match the rear. Sorry to sound reduntant. I just don't want to spend money twice on the same stuff.
Edit: And yeah Luvmeye22re, lol, I luckily have a pretty big garage, an air compressor, some tools, jacks, & stands.
I'm stuck on the shackle vs leafs! I can either spend $75 for some nice shackles, or get some OME leafs for $240. I don't mind spending the cash for the right stuff, but I don't want to spend extra loot for stuff I may never take advantage of like an SAS, Chevy springs, etc.
I emailed someone at 4x4connection and he said honestly to get leafs because shackles are only a temporary cure. I don't know enough about this stuff yet, but I like the shackle plan too, but how and why would I need to spend more money on the leafs later? If that's true, I will be spending more in the long run right? If I get the shackles and I don't plan on lifting the truck, how can I reuse the shackles? My conclusion is if I get 3" leafs or 6" shackles, my truck will sit at the same height as now right? And when I get the Bj spacers (soon), I can install them, and relax them to match the rear. Sorry to sound reduntant. I just don't want to spend money twice on the same stuff.
Edit: And yeah Luvmeye22re, lol, I luckily have a pretty big garage, an air compressor, some tools, jacks, & stands.
Last edited by Djlarroc; 10-31-2007 at 07:50 PM.
10-31-2007, 08:45 PM
#73
These are pics of my truck with Downey 3" springs. I think the stuff is just about full but the droop probably has a little bit more to go but not much. Some on the board like to pan the Downey springs but I've been abusing these pretty well and they seem to be holding up alright. And for the price you can't beat it. I won't argue that there are better springs out there to be had, but for the bucks, these will get you out there wheelin. Mostly I posted this so you could see and decide for yourself. Downey 3" lift springs and cheapa$$ shocks. Thats it.
10-31-2007, 09:07 PM
#74
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These are pics of my truck with Downey 3" springs. I think the stuff is just about full but the droop probably has a little bit more to go but not much. Some on the board like to pan the Downey springs but I've been abusing these pretty well and they seem to be holding up alright. And for the price you can't beat it. I won't argue that there are better springs out there to be had, but for the bucks, these will get you out there wheelin. Mostly I posted this so you could see and decide for yourself. Downey 3" lift springs and cheapa$$ shocks. Thats it.
10-31-2007, 09:41 PM
#75
My personal experience was a 3" lift from where I sat. You can see in the before/after measurement pics here.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...stalled-48400/
About 1 inch of settling over time. If you've got the dough and are sure of exactly what you want to do, I would really think about the Alcans. I've never gotten a quote from them, so don't really know what kind of $$ we're talking here, but all I've ever heard is good things about them and that they will build you exactly what you want. I will probably have them eventually. And thanks for the compliment on the truck.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/n...stalled-48400/
About 1 inch of settling over time. If you've got the dough and are sure of exactly what you want to do, I would really think about the Alcans. I've never gotten a quote from them, so don't really know what kind of $$ we're talking here, but all I've ever heard is good things about them and that they will build you exactly what you want. I will probably have them eventually. And thanks for the compliment on the truck.
Last edited by BLKNBLU; 10-31-2007 at 09:43 PM.
11-01-2007, 07:55 AM
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Ok, I remember seeing those pics as well. Only weird part is I don't know how much my truck sags now because of those crazy coils. What I'm gona do is order the shocks today, mount them and take the coil crap off and see where it sits. Then go from there. So if I my truck is 2" lower than the front, and I want it to be level, go with 3" springs? So that in time it levels to 2"? This stuff is all very confusing and I'd hate to spend the money and get it wrong.
I forgot to mention, I did request a quote from Alcan. I told them I didn't load much stuff and I wanted some springs to keep my truck at stock height, with going to a 1-2" lift max. I got into work this morning and checked my email. They quoted me $400 for the pair, plus shipping and maybe tax since I'm in Co. I'm thinking maybe around $450 or so. I'll probably go with the OME.
I forgot to mention, I did request a quote from Alcan. I told them I didn't load much stuff and I wanted some springs to keep my truck at stock height, with going to a 1-2" lift max. I got into work this morning and checked my email. They quoted me $400 for the pair, plus shipping and maybe tax since I'm in Co. I'm thinking maybe around $450 or so. I'll probably go with the OME.
11-01-2007, 12:44 PM
#77
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These are pics of my truck with Downey 3" springs. I think the stuff is just about full but the droop probably has a little bit more to go but not much. Some on the board like to pan the Downey springs but I've been abusing these pretty well and they seem to be holding up alright. And for the price you can't beat it. I won't argue that there are better springs out there to be had, but for the bucks, these will get you out there wheelin. Mostly I posted this so you could see and decide for yourself. Downey 3" lift springs and cheapa$$ shocks. Thats it.
11-15-2007, 08:01 AM
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Update!! Rockin' The Butt Sag
Well I changed my rear shocks on Sun. Despite me wanting to get the Bilsteins, I got a sick deal on the KYB Monomax ($56 pair), so I couldn't pass it up. They feel good. Firm, but not too stiff. Just yesterday, I got around to removing the helper coils. The stupid coils were welded onto the bracket, just to the outside of the coil. It took about 10 mins w/a cutting wheel and now they're off! The ride is better now, but I'm rocking the butt sag, til I get new leafs or longer shackles. Still not sure. 
I took a measure, and to the bottom of the rear bumper, on the driver's side it measures = 20", right in the middle = 19.5", and on pass side = 19". Weird, so I'm thinking if I get new shackles, will it still be and inch lower on the pass side?
I took a measure, and to the bottom of the rear bumper, on the driver's side it measures = 20", right in the middle = 19.5", and on pass side = 19". Weird, so I'm thinking if I get new shackles, will it still be and inch lower on the pass side?
04-06-2008, 04:20 PM
#80
Just a quick note on my experience with Downey 3" rear springs and my 4rnr. I didn't like the ride heigth from the get go, so added a leaf from my stock pack. They sat nice, drove them across country and frequently wheel here in Wa. Well after a few months I was back at it with adding another leaf from my stock pack because the butt was sagging again. Now I've got a set of allpro's waiting on time to install. My experience with the Downey springs has been from May '07 to now.
They flex decent but don't hold up, to wheeling. I've still got IFS with the Downey 26mm T-bars. Rear flex really compensate for lack of IFS flex.
If money is a limiting factor then you really can't afford to not do it right the first time.
IMHO go a different route than Downey rears. Good luck and keep up the research.
They flex decent but don't hold up, to wheeling. I've still got IFS with the Downey 26mm T-bars. Rear flex really compensate for lack of IFS flex.
If money is a limiting factor then you really can't afford to not do it right the first time.
IMHO go a different route than Downey rears. Good luck and keep up the research.
