RSR

http://bit.ly/1hbjWEQ

A hint - check the first link.



Other links have good info too.

smithoman

My 3vze has about 100K (on this) second engine. I get 20mpg highway constantly. I've got a k&n air filter which I love. Cleaned the intake manifold while ago. Tuned up and timed. New wheel bearings, etc. I plan on putting redline in the drive train soon.

millball

Fueled my '95 5 speed 3.slo today: 19.67 mpg on 87 octane 10% ethanol fuel.
90% 70MPH hiway-10% stop and go.

lectric80

Haha, I said I would search it out, but since you are posting in my thread you could have just said which years. The reason I was curious is because a friend of mine has an 84 and an 85 behind his house that I know I could get the parts from.

millball

Never mind--mistaken post

chefdave

Hi
try the big 3. Has made 4-5mpg difference on my v6. Big 3 seems to be more effective on large v6-v8 engines rather than 4 cylinders. if you have an suto try dexron 6. Do this via a passive flush. take a litre of atm fluid out replace with dexon 6 drive a couple of hundred miles and keep repeating. made huge difference to my auto box. smoother chsnges and lower o/d lock up speed.

lectric80

Care to explain the Big 3? No auto here, but planning to do fluid changes in the next month or so as money becomes available.

RSR

Dextron 6 is a synthetic base ATF, so for all intents the synthetics bases is where the main benefit lies and can be accomplished w/ Mobil 1 or Amsoil, among others too...

Big 3 wiring mod is 2 grounds and one alternator + to battery + cable. Some also add the battery + to fuse block cable as well. Note that *I think* both the positives have fusible links. Upgrading them to bigger gauge cables that result in less voltage loss across distance/carry current more efficiently.

Negatives/grounds are battery to engine block and engine block to chassis.

Note on the 3vze, we have several grounds however and this mod is really about the system working completely w/ optimum efficiency, so can/should be upgraded as well.
-Battery to Passenger Inner Fender
-Battery to Engine Block
-Engine block to driver's fender
-Plenum to rear of engine block
-And then there are one or two chassis to frame grounds as well

So 2 potential positives (headlight harness would be good to do now as well and moves all that light current out of your light switch on your console to that just being a relay control) and 6-7 grounds. Big 8 or 9, haha.

The theory is that a more efficient electrical system with less voltage loss will allow your ignition system to make a stronger spark and thereby improve engine efficiency by increasing completeness of gasoline combustion... Some have used the Supra coil and Denso/NGK copper spark plugs gapped to supra specs for similar effect as well. And this same effect is also helped, probably more so than by big 3, by upgraded injectors that atomize fuel. Ultimately, the more corroded your wiring/ground connections, the bigger benefit you'll see with the Big 3+.

Please note on the positive that fusible links are VERY important. Forgetting them may well result in you melting your main wiring harness in the event your fuse block fuse(s) don't blow like they should... Removing and replacing it would be a tremendous chore.

Also, make sure you're doing this correctly with a good crimp. Solder corrodes more quickly than copper wire when exposed to elements which means a system that decays at a faster rate, and solder alone is not sufficient. Doing this halfway will create more problems than it solves.

RSR

I don't knwo the years offhand. And it's not just years, but specific engines on specific models in specific years.

I don't think this thread ever really ends. It just drops off the first page, someone starts anew, and if the poster is fortunate, folks regurgitate previously and exhaustively discussed info -- the quality and amount of knowledge in historical threads usually being more complete and accurate than rehashing the convo. If not, they're asked to search or ignored entirely... Sort of like how its fun to discuss the weekend's big game with the first few sports minded colleagues you see when back in the office, but in retelling after those first few the story it steadily and quickly becomes abbreviated in quality and content...

Rinse, repeat. haha.

RSR

Engine flush is three fold. All due to removal of varnish/buildup.

1. Varnish prevents oil from lubricating as well as and where all it should. Removing in this case reduces the friction drag when oil is again flowing everywhere it should.

2. Removing the varnish, just like plaque in arteries, allows for increased flow throughout the system -- this affects both the former and the following.

3. And lastly, a big function of oil in addition to lubrication is cooling. One of the reasons why, for instance, higher oil volumes (such as larger oil pan/keeping oil dipstick at full and bypass filters or external oil coolers are a good thing) result in improved engine efficiency. The stock oil cooler is good too, as is any oil cooler once at operating temp, but oil coolers also take it longer to get warm so is a tradeoff you'll want to consider with your drive/trip times, length of trips, climate, etc. Like goldilocks, engines like it not too hot and not too cold. And except for on startup, engines always try to run towards the too hot end of the spectrum -- and oil cools in places where your coolant cannot.

The flush and switch to Ti oil also resulted in making my then just adjusted valves no longer chatter. And they still don't.

lectric80

I did search on that one, but wasn't 100% sure that was what you were referring to with the big 3. There is a bunch of wiring issues I'm going to need to deal with, but right now I'm focused on getting my garage ready for my 90 22re pickup because a buddy of mine has an engine for me to drop in.

Once it is back on the road, I'm thinking about taking this thing in another direction, namely making it the family wheeler. I'm leaning towards a small amount of lift, maybe a set of 32's and a few other little odds and ends to make it more capable off road. I will use my pickup, as I always have, as the DD because it's just me going to work, whereas this Runner is capable of hauling the family and having fun. May even add a roof top tent and off road trailer. I have a few trips in mind that will require some modifications to this thing.

In the meantime, cleaning the throttle body has helped, although it isn't a huge difference. I gained about .5 MPG after cleaning it, but I still need to deal with the high idle issue. Now getting 19.6 pretty consistently and looking at my next options. Most of what I want to do going forward is going to require some cash, and my 90 needs quite a few parts to make it safe again (shocks, ball joints, tie rods, etc.), so much of the cash flow is going that direction right now.

RSR

Sorry, I was referring to the 3vze mileage/power threads, not the big 3.

With the 22re, you might want to consider the next gen 3RZ-FE swap. From what I understand, it's much easier than a 3.0 swap, and it's arguably a better engine producing about the same power as a 3.0. And w/o all the vacuum crap, it's a cleaner engine bay too. Or are these two separate trucks?

One request -- please update your signature to reflect your rig(s). Model, engine, year. Allows everyone to know what you've got when trying to give you help.

Bravo for putting safety before "fun" mods.

See this for lifts: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f31/...trucks-124467/

I like rockford for CV boots: http://www.rockfordcv.com/rcvboot.htm

lectric80

Ok, signature updated.

As far as engine swap on the 22r-e, not a chance. The engine I have online is a straight swap, although I will likely use my top end which has a 163* RV cam in it. I threw a rod through the block, but the top end is still solid and the head was clean when I replaced the cam and rockers a little over 2 years ago. That is my driver, it is as base model as you can get except for having an AM/FM cassete from the factory. The only options it has is the 2 speaker stereo and 4x4, and it works great for a daily driver, not so much for hauling the family. It has at least one broken shock (the lower eye ripped out when I hit a pot hole a couple months ago), and I don't know the real condition of the ball joints so I'm going to do them. The front bearings are going to be done, a new front pinion seal, new rear brakes, new clutch and a few other little odds and ends that it just makes sense to do while it is down. When this one blew up I bought the 94 Runner to fill in while I get it back on the road. It also needs a new cat, as the old one is plugged, and new exhaust anyway. Before the engine gave out, it was getting 23 average with the shell on and 25 with it off.

The one this thread has been focused on is my 94 Runner with the 3.0. That is the one I'm planning to modify into the family wheeler for medium trail runs and camping. Mild lift, new bumpers, winch and extra lighting are all in store for this thing. I will likely either trim the fenders, or find some kind of flare to cover them after I remove most of the rust. I may even take some time to eventually replace the rusted panels with new. I already planned the headlight relay mod to lower the draw on the light switch, and the other mods to the wiring will probably be done at the same time. In the meantime, I'm still working on it to get maximum mileage out of it.

lectric80

By the way, thanks for the links on lifts and the CV boots. I may just go ahead and do all new axles up front on the 90 and then again when I get to that point on the Runner. I do appreciate the info you have given here.

elaketiger

It depresses me to read these mileage quotes. I have a 3.slow with automatic transmission and 32" tires and get only 10mpg, and that is after considering the 14.2% increase due to the big tires. I have done everything I can think of that is reasonable to improve the mileage to no avail. I've replaced the following for various reasons:


Knock Sensor and Cable
PCV valve
distributor cap and rotor
O2 sensor
Removed catalytic converter and added a straight pipe
Used injector cleaner
Set timing
Cleaned throttle body (as best I could)




I have not changed the spark plugs or wires because the engine was rebuilt a little over a year before I bought it and they were changed then. I have not replaced the fuel injectors either.


The tail pipe is black so I'm sure most of the fuel is just passing through the exhaust.


I'm not an expert mechanic so I'm sure there are other things to do. But 10 mpg is not due to a lack of Mods like a larger exhaust pipe or special air box, etc.


If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears.


Thanks,

RJR

You're obviously running rich. Some things to check
- Diagnostic codes. Does the check engine light even work? (should light when you turn the key on before you start)
- Does your vehicle pass smog? (I see you pulled off the cat, so probably not.)
- Do you have a digital mulitimeter? If not, stop reading this and go get one. You can't diagnose your vehicle without one. Less than $15 at Harbor Freight or Walmart, etc.
- Measure the voltage at the VF1 terminal on the diag port with the engine fully warmed up and running at 2000 rpm. Should be between 1.25 and 3.75 volts. If it's pegged at 5V or 0V, your closed loop mixture control isn't working. Note the voltage it's stuck at.
- With the same operating conditions, using a digital multimeter, measure the voltage on the OX1 terminal in the diag port. It should be switching back and forth between 0 and 1 volt about once/second. If it's stuck one direction or the other, again your closed loop control isn't working. Note the voltage it's stuck at.
- Short TE1 to E1 and measure the voltage on VF1, again under the same operating conditions. It should be switching between 0V and 5V about once/second. Again, if it's not moving, note the voltage it's stuck at.

Make those measurements exactly as I specified and report back. The next steps depend on what you found out. Good luck.

millball

Check the engine temp sensor that talks to the ECU, (different one than for the gauge)
If it does not function properly, the fuel trim system will not go into closed loop. This continuous operation in open loop definitely will result in poor fuel mileage.

You might consider a new upstream O2 sensor too, but look at the temp sensor first.

Edit: RJR beat me to it, and with a much more helpful and comprehensive reply.

elaketiger

Thanks RJR and Millball:


Yes the CEL system is working correctly and there are no codes. I do have a good digital multimeter also and will check those items you outlined.


No smog checks here.


Since my truck is not here in town it will be some weeks before I can go check these voltages but I will print out these messages and take with me. I also have a copy of the FSM on my laptop and will research these items as well.


This truck has only one O2 sensor, I think those sold out west had two though.


Thanks for your help, I will check these items.

elaketiger

Okay, I got a chance to go check those voltages on my 94 3zve today. I have a pretty good digital multimeter (the brand is FLUKE). The results were as follows:

Checked the CEL and it appears to work fine, as well as it flashes normally when shorting between the TE1 and E1 terminals.

At 2000 rpms,

1.) the voltage at the VF1 terminal is 1.07 volts (a little low).
2.) the voltage at the OX1 connector fluctuates from 0 to about .9 volts about every second. Still a little low but with the digital meter the voltages are changing so fast not sure if that is bad or not.
3.) with a jumper between TE1 and E1 (CEL flashing) the voltage varies from 0 to about 4.89 volts about every second.

Not sure if this indicates anything wrong because nothing was way out or pegged at 0 or 5V.

If this means anything, please let me know.

Thanks again.

RJR

Good job of making the correct measurements! Unfortunately (from a diagnostic standpoint), the results indicate that the ECU is happy about how things are running, and the closed loop control is working. The low voltage on the VF1 terminal does indicate that things are biased toward rich, which means that whenever the engine is running open-loop (cold, hard acceleration), it is likely running a bit rich, but I don't think that explains your low fuel mileage or your black exhaust pipe.

I think millball's suggestion to check the engine coolant temperature sensor is the next place to look. The coolant temperature sensor should measure about 300 ohms when the engine is properly warmed up (~180 degF). If it's higher than about 600 ohms when the engine is warmed up, it means the ECU never thinks the engine is warmed up, and will be calling for a richer than normal mixture.