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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

The debate in my head....rebuild vs. swap

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Old Nov 29, 2006 | 09:18 PM
  #21  
CoedNaked's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota
actually its the area under the torque curve that makes it drivable. This is why youll see a 408 LS1 strocker with a mild cam with a lower HP rating pull the snot out of the same engine with a higher tq/hp rating from off line...until the more aggressively cammed LS1 gets into its power band. Also the higher up on the RPM scale the TQ is the higher the resultant horsepower of the engine. But the 3vze is no gen IV block.... The cams are so bad from the factory its crazy. Same with the valves. Working on them will do nothing but help the engine from off idle to redline.

The valves were sized too small from the factory, and the OEM cams blow. imho

With the cams Im getting you have 145ft lbs at 2500rpm. You tell me how thats not more tq than stock? (>40ft lbs over stock) AND with larger valves youll have even more.

Exhuast youll be lucky to see 10ft lbs imo. Ive done a full cat back and free flowing cat...2.25" Another interesting fact. Your auto's torque converter doesnt hit flash until about 2500rpm or so this contributes a lot to the 3grand power band of the 3.slow... Personally I'd rev the 3.0. Its less of a tq load on the transmission (lower gear) and less overall stress on they cylinders, but at the expense of the bearings... To me it's like whats easier, lifting 400lbs 10 feet or 40lbs 100ft? Its easier on your body to do the longer distance lighter weight....

I want to say EGTs go up when you bog a gasser but im not sure on that.....

Do me a favour - do the cams, do some dyno runs, and report back. It all sounds good, but I'll wait to see the proof in the pudding.

You know what I would like to see? I would like to see Weasy push his cams hard, research them, dyno, tune them, make them perfect, analyze how they really affect the engine ,and see if he can sell his cams to TRD. Toyota Racing Development has made performance parts for the 22RE, but not the 3vze. I think the headers they made for the 22RE might now be discontinued, they have they really put any thought into guys who are contemplating a swap, or moving on to something else with their 3vze's, who, with maybe 10 HP more and 15-20 ft-lbs more of torque, they might be satisfied with their truck, yet they are apprehensive about mods. Look at my discussion thread about mods and what did you notice? The only mod that really has any real affect on this engine is headers in conjunction with an exhaust. And even then, headers cause some huge headaches for some, and there are so many consequences with running headers that they often outweight the advantages for some. TRD's mods in general, seem to be pretty safe offerings. Superchargers, headers that won't cook your carpet and your starter, bolt on cat-backs, things like that. If this is an almost bolt on install (the cams), well bolt on being the wrong word, maybe bolt in - when you do your next timing belt, and they do provide the advantages claimed, I see no reason why TRD couldn't market them and Weasy could get a share of the royalties. I myself am a little apprehensive right now about even touching Weasy's cams, despite the fact he's a local guy, because they haven't garnered widespread distribution, or haven't seen a lot of guys use them for a while, or enough time out there to gain a reputation for reliability, performance, that type of thing. I could care less if the cost of his cams would go up another few hundred dollars if they were marketed under TRD (assuming TRD would even touch something like that) - I would still buy them, because they are TRD, and because they are warrantied. To some it might not make a difference, but if it is sanctioned by Toyota, a mainly stock guy like myself (as far as engine is concerned) would feel better.

What I think Toyota should do is make 3 performance parts for the 3vze. Cams, a bolt on 2 1/4" catback exhaust much like the 2 1/4" Borla system, that is mandrel bent, and a TRD air filter. Is it too late for TRD to make something for the 3vze? Do you think they'll care about the hundreds of thousands of owners still out there? Imagine you got your 3vze 4runner or truck serviced at a dealership, and on the back of your receipt you have a little pamphlet attached to it with a few TRD performance parts now available for the 3vze. I'm sure some guys would definately buy. Lots of guys love their 3vze trucks or 4runners. That's why you see so many of the damn things on the road still to this day, plus they last and hold their resale value. MOst of them just "accept" the engine as being a little edgy on performance, becasue the thing has gotten them through hell and back as far as reliability goes.

TRD TAKE NOTE!

Last edited by CoedNaked; Nov 29, 2006 at 09:21 PM.
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Old Nov 29, 2006 | 09:33 PM
  #22  
Bumpin' Yota's Avatar
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This is true, but how many of those posting in that thread have OS valves or cams? Id be willing to bet I could count the number on one hand. I think if these two were addressed first the rest of the bolt ons would show a little better gains since the VE is increased.

Weasy already has done the dyno graphs. Those numbers are bone stock no other swap than the cams. Look to the far left of the graph and note just how much higer his cam's torque is! Apparently his cams are selling quite well locally. I am the first one here on YT to get them but I think Suprathepeg is getting some too... His cam grinder had some rediculous quantity of time in terms of experience and i trust em both.

And with the phasing out of the 3vze HG campaign I think TRD couldnt care less about the 3vze, but I hope Im wrong. It would be most cool to see what weasy2k's cams take off

Thus far I've been unimpressed with TRD...did they actually ever produce a supercharger for the 4.7L iforce V8?

As far as with my truck I have the auto, so getting on a dyno and keeping it from downshifting will be tough.... I do know that my truck used to go 0-60 in 13.8 seconds balls to the walls in cool weather on a certain stretch of US41....hehe Ill def be making the run again once its together!

Last edited by Bumpin' Yota; Nov 29, 2006 at 09:47 PM.
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Old Nov 30, 2006 | 03:23 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Bumpin' Yota
This is true, but how many of those posting in that thread have OS valves or cams? Id be willing to bet I could count the number on one hand. I think if these two were addressed first the rest of the bolt ons would show a little better gains since the VE is increased.

Weasy already has done the dyno graphs. Those numbers are bone stock no other swap than the cams. Look to the far left of the graph and note just how much higer his cam's torque is! Apparently his cams are selling quite well locally. I am the first one here on YT to get them but I think Suprathepeg is getting some too... His cam grinder had some rediculous quantity of time in terms of experience and i trust em both.

And with the phasing out of the 3vze HG campaign I think TRD couldnt care less about the 3vze, but I hope Im wrong. It would be most cool to see what weasy2k's cams take off

Thus far I've been unimpressed with TRD...did they actually ever produce a supercharger for the 4.7L iforce V8?

As far as with my truck I have the auto, so getting on a dyno and keeping it from downshifting will be tough.... I do know that my truck used to go 0-60 in 13.8 seconds balls to the walls in cool weather on a certain stretch of US41....hehe Ill def be making the run again once its together!
Yeah maybe all the mods will get you close to the power of the 3vze mated to the manual tranny?

I think TRD should give a crap about the 3vze. Owners of 3.4 equipped trucks, and especially 4.0 equipped Trucks, are probably more satisfied with their engines, and not AS likely to modify. 3.0 owners, because they don't have as much power as later generations, actually require mods. Here's what I mean: we're not looking for mods to make towing easier, or to increase our 0-60 times. 3.0 owners are looking for mods that work to better utilize our trucks to their abilities To tow up to the rated capacity, to merge onto the highway with more pulling power. To drag around campers and camping gear that our trucks frames can easily handle, but taxes the engine more so than we would like. Peace of mind comes with TRD because it they are Toyota parts. The 3.4 engines and 4.0 engines have no problems using the trucks they pull around to rated capacity.
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Old Nov 30, 2006 | 05:15 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by CoedNaked
Yeah maybe all the mods will get you close to the power of the 3vze mated to the manual tranny?

I think TRD should give a crap about the 3vze. Owners of 3.4 equipped trucks, and especially 4.0 equipped Trucks, are probably more satisfied with their engines, and not AS likely to modify. 3.0 owners, because they don't have as much power as later generations, actually require mods. Here's what I mean: we're not looking for mods to make towing easier, or to increase our 0-60 times. 3.0 owners are looking for mods that work to better utilize our trucks to their abilities To tow up to the rated capacity, to merge onto the highway with more pulling power. To drag around campers and camping gear that our trucks frames can easily handle, but taxes the engine more so than we would like. Peace of mind comes with TRD because it they are Toyota parts. The 3.4 engines and 4.0 engines have no problems using the trucks they pull around to rated capacity.
Not that I'm discouraging your passion. I think it's great that you are so enthusiastic about the 3VZE. I mean, I'm stuck with it to. But Toyota is a company, a public company at that. They have a responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profit. And if there is anything the Japanese are good at, it's squeezing blood from a stone.

To that end, it just doesn't make sense for them to invest any more R&D money into the 3VZE when they don't even mass produce that engine any longer. It's like

Believe me, if TRD put something out for the 3VZE, I'd be the first in line....well, maybe the second or third....behind you clowns But, this is the next best alternative. This community will continue to breathe life into the little engine that could....
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Old Nov 30, 2006 | 09:03 PM
  #25  
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But the first thing is I don't even think Toyota has very good advertising for their TRD products. At least not up here. They could sell more that way. And like I said, guys with the 3vze NEED more power. The 3.4 guys or 4.0 guys wouldn't see as much of a need because they already have good or great power/torque. If they got out a few products and advertised them a bit, maybe they might see some sales. They already rediculously price TRD products, so there is no way they would lose money anyways.
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