Dead Cylinder,1100 Miles on Rebuilt 3VZE
#21
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A little late to the party, and I haven't actually had to get this far into this on my own engine, so this is theory not personal experience on the 3vze...
That said, for piston rings, my understanding is as follows:
Chrome are really only for high RPM, high heat engines like turbos. Additionally, they require fresh, perfect spec bores and/or rebored engines prepared specifically for chrome rings -- I think this means cylinder walls might need specially prepared coatings due to chrome's hardness and smoothness, need to ensure adequate oil reaching rings since chrome doesn't carry. Probably not what you're looking for. I think turbo diesel type engines in dirty, high wear work/service environments are primarily where chrome rings are used these days... Not very common in American passenger vehicles as I understand it. Ultimately, chrome take forever to break in and require high heat to properly seat, so that's a major drawback unless you're going to pay a tuning shop to run a proper break in on their dyno machine or something along those lines with open, low traffic roadways allowing you to accelerate and decelerate with engine breaking etc, avoiding idling for a couple thousand miles...
I believe the OEM factory rings are ductile iron, moly coated. This is what I'd recommend you replace with, provided the machine shop actually re-bored and honed (essentially an overbore) all cylinders and didn't just remove the glaze with a brush or glaze breaker. If they did the latter, you want to to go with a cast iron ring. Ductile moly rings last longer than cast iron as the moly coating means the piston rings and engine cylinders aren't wearing as quickly -- cast iron essentially micro weld themselves to cylinder walls during operation leading to quicker wear of rings and engine walls. The moly coating prevents this micro weld and moly itself, being somewhat porous carries a lot of engine oil between the ring and the cylinder wall as well. The drawback of moly is that it can carry dirt and other contaminates too, hence the need for good air and oil filters -- preferably with the addition of magnetic drain plug, filter sleeve, etc, to remove ferrous particles smaller than your filter can grab from from your oil stream.
Hastings has a pretty good brief: http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTi...ecommendat.htm
That said, for piston rings, my understanding is as follows:
Chrome are really only for high RPM, high heat engines like turbos. Additionally, they require fresh, perfect spec bores and/or rebored engines prepared specifically for chrome rings -- I think this means cylinder walls might need specially prepared coatings due to chrome's hardness and smoothness, need to ensure adequate oil reaching rings since chrome doesn't carry. Probably not what you're looking for. I think turbo diesel type engines in dirty, high wear work/service environments are primarily where chrome rings are used these days... Not very common in American passenger vehicles as I understand it. Ultimately, chrome take forever to break in and require high heat to properly seat, so that's a major drawback unless you're going to pay a tuning shop to run a proper break in on their dyno machine or something along those lines with open, low traffic roadways allowing you to accelerate and decelerate with engine breaking etc, avoiding idling for a couple thousand miles...
I believe the OEM factory rings are ductile iron, moly coated. This is what I'd recommend you replace with, provided the machine shop actually re-bored and honed (essentially an overbore) all cylinders and didn't just remove the glaze with a brush or glaze breaker. If they did the latter, you want to to go with a cast iron ring. Ductile moly rings last longer than cast iron as the moly coating means the piston rings and engine cylinders aren't wearing as quickly -- cast iron essentially micro weld themselves to cylinder walls during operation leading to quicker wear of rings and engine walls. The moly coating prevents this micro weld and moly itself, being somewhat porous carries a lot of engine oil between the ring and the cylinder wall as well. The drawback of moly is that it can carry dirt and other contaminates too, hence the need for good air and oil filters -- preferably with the addition of magnetic drain plug, filter sleeve, etc, to remove ferrous particles smaller than your filter can grab from from your oil stream.
Hastings has a pretty good brief: http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTi...ecommendat.htm
#22
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Alright gents, did another compression test on the left bank, cylinders #2 and #4 120psi, #6 0psi, added 4ml of oil to #6 and retested, still 0psi, no change.
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The motor has not overheated since the rebuild, so I don't think it could be a warped or cracked head.
Heads were rebuilt in May, so I don't think it could be the valves.
So I'm thinking it's the POS ITM gaskets that are to blame.
I'm positive I torqued the heads properly with new bolts.
Heads were rebuilt in May, so I don't think it could be the valves.
So I'm thinking it's the POS ITM gaskets that are to blame.
I'm positive I torqued the heads properly with new bolts.
#25
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Just use a toyota head gasket, since there was no change with adding oil its almost a garentee that the head gasket is blown like no other has ever blown before orrrr you have a broken exhaust valve....
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Not yet.
My 95 Grand Am blew it's LIM gasket, so it's the one getting my attention ATM.
The Runner is plugging along on 5 cylinders for now.
Only drive it to work (2 miles) and the grocery store (1.5) miles.
The smoke sure smells funky at start up, not just gas and oil burning, I know that smell, I think there's a little coolant burning too.
My 95 Grand Am blew it's LIM gasket, so it's the one getting my attention ATM.
The Runner is plugging along on 5 cylinders for now.
Only drive it to work (2 miles) and the grocery store (1.5) miles.
The smoke sure smells funky at start up, not just gas and oil burning, I know that smell, I think there's a little coolant burning too.
Since I had her torn down to the heads I figured I may as well pull the the heads do the HGs and a valve grind.
#27
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Well I got the heads off the Runner now.
Exhaust valve in #6 has a 1/8 X 1/16 inch chip on the edge, if you were standing inside the cylinder with your back facing the center of the engine, looking up, the chip would be in the 5 to 6 o'clock position.
Throw your thoughts of the cause at me please.
By the way the bolts connecting the crossover to the Man and the pipe to the Man were not tightened enough.
Exhaust valve in #6 has a 1/8 X 1/16 inch chip on the edge, if you were standing inside the cylinder with your back facing the center of the engine, looking up, the chip would be in the 5 to 6 o'clock position.
Throw your thoughts of the cause at me please.
By the way the bolts connecting the crossover to the Man and the pipe to the Man were not tightened enough.
Last edited by big bear; 02-11-2014 at 11:49 AM.
#29
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Well I got the heads off the Runner now.
Exhaust valve in #6 has a 1/8 X 1/16 inch chip on the edge, if you were standing inside the cylinder with your back facing the center of the engine, looking up, the chip would be in the 5 to 6 o'clock position.
Throw your thoughts of the cause at me please.
By the way the bolts connecting the crossover the the Man and the pipe to the Man were not tightened enough.
Exhaust valve in #6 has a 1/8 X 1/16 inch chip on the edge, if you were standing inside the cylinder with your back facing the center of the engine, looking up, the chip would be in the 5 to 6 o'clock position.
Throw your thoughts of the cause at me please.
By the way the bolts connecting the crossover the the Man and the pipe to the Man were not tightened enough.
Could have been a foreign object, excess heat (causes them to become brittle over time), or just old, tired valves. If you think it was an object (you'd see impressions on the piston or other valves) check you spark plugs for damage as well.
#30
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Can't find any damage on the piston or plug, cylinder wall looks good too, I can see the fine cross hatch marks from honing all the way around the cylinder wall, with #1 at TDC #6 is all the way at the bottom of it's stroke.
#32
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I feel like I got ˟˟˟˟˟˟ed by that machine shop, please tell me I'm wrong.
The owner talked me out of buying a Fel-Pro gasket set, saying Fel-Pro is over-priced
then sold me the backwards upside down ITM gaskets for the same price I could have got Fel-Pro's from Rockauto.
The owner talked me out of buying a Fel-Pro gasket set, saying Fel-Pro is over-priced
then sold me the backwards upside down ITM gaskets for the same price I could have got Fel-Pro's from Rockauto.
#33
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You guys think I should go back to the same shop to see if they'll give me a deal on fixing the valve (since I paid them $500 in June for rebuilding the heads) or just move onto another shop ?
#34
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Was going to get heads from http://www.headsonly.com/
But the owner(Southwest Engines) offered to rebuild mine for the same price, so I went ahead and had them rebuild the heads.
But the owner(Southwest Engines) offered to rebuild mine for the same price, so I went ahead and had them rebuild the heads.
#35
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You said the crossover pipe was loose?dont know how true it is but I've heard cold air can get sucked thru an exhaust leak on deceleration and play havoc on hot exhaust parts.sounds kinda legit cause the scavenging effect the exhaust has would deffinatly pull air.just a thought on the "why"
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You said the crossover pipe was loose?dont know how true it is but I've heard cold air can get sucked thru an exhaust leak on deceleration and play havoc on hot exhaust parts.sounds kinda legit cause the scavenging effect the exhaust has would deffinatly pull air.just a thought on the "why"
O2 enters and causes the unburnt gases to re-ignite in the manny-pipe, causing excessive heat.
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Oh and when I built my first engine at the age of 14(not that long ago really 16 years I guess)my dad told me if it ain't felpro it's junk still feel it's partially true so I would feel hosed on the gaskets
#38
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My family comes from Tanana/Rampart area.
#40
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The main reason the valves burn/ crack in Toyota v6 is due to the cossover exhaust design. It is a very restrictive design and causes alot of heat build up in the heads and the exhaust valves without a boubt see the most of the heat. The proper fix is to remove the cross over completly, run the pass side exhaust down pipe under the transimssion and then join it into the main exhaut pipe the a \ / type of merge. Block of where the crossover used to connect into the drive manifold.
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