AxleIke

I'm just going off of what i've seen on the trail, and don't know about leaking or anything, so i could be way off.

Its just, on a trail with third gens...I have folded brand new tierod sleeves, and new idlers, where they have had absolutely no issues. This is on 33 inch tires for both trucks. TC has folded his relay rod, and Flygtenstein has folded everything under the sun.

So, this would be, i guess, a purely abuse related to tire and rock size test. I can certainly see how an early model truck could go forever with the steering being just fine if it isn't abused, and a third gen might have much more potential to wear out.

Anyway, certainly wasn't saying you are wrong, just has been my experience that the old stuff has sucked pretty good, and the newer stuff has appeared to hold up better.

1989toy4wd

Good posting. People really do not give the Toyota IFS any credit. I was reading an article in a 4wd magazine and it said that the Toyota IFS is one of the strongest and best designed IFS ever.

1989toy4wd

Good posting. People really do not give the Toyota IFS any credit. I was reading an article in a 4wd magazine and it said that the Toyota IFS is one of the strongest and best designed IFS ever.

Of course, I am going to put a Total Chaos system in mine...

tc

It doesn't really matter - think about as the truck is driving forward with the wheels turned. They are both a "3D" motion due to the rotation of the axle. Very hard to explain on here, very simple to understand if you have the parts in hand and simulate the motion.

Having just replaced the Birfs in Molly's truck, I can verify that the mode of failure is essentially identical to CV's. The only REAL difference is CV's have rubber boots, where birfs are enclosed in a steel housing. I have had several boot failures, but never actually break a CV. But I also replace the whole axle when I have a boot failure, too.

I did indeed fold a post-recall steering relay rod. I think the redesign to make them not break traded strength for ductility, so while they won't fracture, they will bend easier now.

elripster

It's all good. It is entirely possible they 3rd gens got better with time too. I honestly haven't been paying a lot of attention to the goings on in the later gens in the last few years.

Here's a thought on strength. Often when one sees a fairly hard wheeling solid axle truck the axle has upgraded birfs, trusses, and often even diff armor combined with high strength cross over steering all of which is a rather expensive implementation. On the flip side, I usually see IFS trucks with none of that. I mention this because I was reading up on Steve Schaefers project at Sonoran Steel where he's basically doing what I would call a correct build up to an IFS truck and see that more as an apples to apples comparison. I wish I had the equipment and time to really test the strength of parts like CV's Vs. Torque Vs. angle but I don't. However, I'm curious to see how what I might call a "properly" set up IFS would do with say 35's, locked, rock crawling and will keep up on Steve's project. I suspect a worthy skid plate, rear a-arm truss, idler brace, and treated CV's would make for a capable and durable rig at a better price.

As for flex, well after rock crawling in a Pinzgauer I'm not exactly convinced you need a lot of it (they hardly flex at all, I.S. all around) and I think our IFS can function fine from that perspective.

Frank

AxleIke

I agree.

I think that, for me, the only alure of getting rid of the IFS is that my IFS is pretty tired. I just spent 500 bucks putting in new upper and lower ball joints, inner and outter tie rods, a new idler, and replaced the ds lower control arm.

It will finally align, but still, after a single wheeling trip it is out again. I have a guy who helps me out with that, but still, it is damned annoying. Plus, if i go far a way to wheel, such as when i go to moab, i end up driving 500+ miles on a badly aligned truck, causing excess tire wear. To me, an axle would enable me simply to wheel the same trails i do now with out nearly constant maintenence.

As for ragging on it for wheeling, most everyone has no idea what they are talking about. Only about 1% of the people who swap actually wheeled their trucks IFS first, and actually equiped their IFS trucks to handle tough trails. The rest just get it, take it out in a field, say "IFS sucks" and then hang an axle.

tc

x2 I'm of the opinion that IFS will take me anywhere I want to take a truck I care about the body and glass. When I get to the point of needing a SAS, I'll build a buggy...

Robinhood150

Frank, good to see you're still around!

As for the torsion bar question, read this. http://robinhood4x4.com/suspension1.htm

deathrunner

So, is cryo treatment the only thing that makes the aftermarket birfs better?

If so how much of an improvement is it? If that is all, then I don't see why it wouldn't help the cv's.

I have a feeling something more than cryo treatment is going on there.

tc

We just put Lonfields in Molly's truck. The outer bell is bigger - we had to grind the housing to get them to fit. Also, the outer shaft is increased from 27 spline to 30 spline.

MudHippy

No apology needed, translucent enough. Thank you, I have a much better view now. Not as clears as I might like, I still want to know whether I should get larger diameter bars or stock. Mine are history, adjustments no longer possible. I don't mind the way stock rides, even cranked. I would like more flexability, mine takes enormous force to get any travel, yes without the swaybar installed. If the 26mm are going to be way to stiff, then forget that.

elripster

Stiffer bars to have their place. If you are more into the high speed stuff, they will help. The suspension will bottom out less. However, on the trail, you will flex much less while I know there isn't a lot of flex to start with I prefer to have as much as she'll give me.

I might suggest some used stock bars. With all the SAS's I bet you can find some for free.

Also, doing something like the BJ spacer will make the truck flex better.



Frank

elripster

I recall when the cryo deal first came out, Allpro and possibly others had come out with beefier joints but they still broke.

Heat treating metal properly can have a huge effect on the characteristics thereof. I mean you can drastically change the characteristics on piece by just quenching it too quickly or failing to anneal properly after.

What this treatment does is increase the toughness which in enginerd world means it increases the amount of energy the part can absorb. When, for example, the tire lands spinning quickly, there is a big spike in force. A metal that is very hard won't flex and that spike will get higher. Metal that is softer will flex but over time it can fatigue and fail. Cryo treating the metal is how you get enough ductility to survive these huge spikes in force/torque without the discontinuities that are where cracks begin. It might seem like a small thing to eliminate these irregularities in the grain structure but over time its huge because fatigue and crack propagation is what kills lots of parts not just these.

I'm sure that in order to make the strongest possible joint cryo treating with added material is the way. The question is, do our CV's need the added material? If not great. If so, well, that's just one more thing to look into.

Frank

elripster

It's good to back! It took a while to find a replacement truck but now I have one and am stoked. I have lots of ideas to try out on my new to me 1994 willing-victim.. I mean 4runner.

Frank

elripster

You nailed it again. Did you check my post on aligning you truck? It's pretty easy and will make those long drives back from wheeling a lot more pleasant. I have made 'em myself with my alignment totally jacked and know what you mean.

Frank

jskijoe

How do you mount an extra idler arm? That sounds like an interesting idea. Share some pics if you can. I'm going to buy a total chaos idler arm but it would be nice to have some additional support for the linkages

dlbrunner

Is there a link to steve's IFS build? I did see it once and it looked good.

I did talk to a guy, Brian, who is on this board. He went about as far as the IFS could go before doing the SAS. He pointed out he kept breaking the short side axle shaft.

fthertime666

I'd be interested in stronger cv shafts! But I'd also be interested in stronger steering. Never broken a cv, but I have bent a lot of trussed idlers and tie rods, guess its time to give total chaos a call. Frank, I sent you an e-mail btw.

mt_goat

It was made by Superlift many years ago and they quit making them about 1996.

1styota4X4

I wonder if that is something that could be fabbed up....its would be hard to do with only pics....I have reciently added ball joint spacers and 2 inch spacers in the rear still working on getting new springs....love the extra lift but i am unaware on how much i can change the torsion bars I lowered them but even after an idiot did the alignment the camber is still off....