Cotton Pickin' HG
04-12-2006, 09:50 AM
#1
Cotton Pickin' HG
So all my silly coolant, smoking, and surging problems ended up being, duh, a blown head gasket on my 88 22re. It's down at the shop and they're estimating $800 total including parts, which is 12.5 hrs of labor. Doesn't this sound like too much? Should I just do it myself?
04-12-2006, 10:28 AM
#6
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It's not hard by any means.. just a little time consuming... Make sure you take pictures, or you'll be asking a lot or questions for pictures and whatnot (ask me how I know! 
) Also, make sure you sort out all your bolts, so you know where the go... I didnt' do that either.. probably spent close to 100 bucks just buying extra bolts that I lost, but end up finding after the fact! 
) Also, make sure you sort out all your bolts, so you know where the go... I didnt' do that either.. probably spent close to 100 bucks just buying extra bolts that I lost, but end up finding after the fact!
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04-12-2006, 11:28 AM
#9
That is a good price.
Try around $3K to $4k for the 3.0
I had a '79 2WD 'Yota truck, my first one, and the 22R engine blew its HG back around '87 or '88.
Toy dealer charged me $400 back then, so $800 now is nothing compared to the $400 way back then.
Try around $3K to $4k for the 3.0
I had a '79 2WD 'Yota truck, my first one, and the 22R engine blew its HG back around '87 or '88.
Toy dealer charged me $400 back then, so $800 now is nothing compared to the $400 way back then.
04-12-2006, 11:50 AM
#10
Yeah, well, I think I've made up my mind and I'll do it myself.
By the way, has anyone ever heard of "tabs"? The mechanic put some in my coolant and it actually has slowed the leak, so I think I'll be able to make the 100 mile drive back to ATL with it.
By the way, has anyone ever heard of "tabs"? The mechanic put some in my coolant and it actually has slowed the leak, so I think I'll be able to make the 100 mile drive back to ATL with it.
04-12-2006, 12:00 PM
#11
It sounds like you have the luxury of time. If that's true, go ahead and take a crack at it. I just finished mine and it went pretty well. Here is my deal:
86 22re with 235k miles. Blew white exhaust and lost coolant but didn't heat up to the red on the gauge (caught it just in time) Mine is NOT a DD so it could sit as long as I wanted to take.
As you mentioned I read lots of write ups and manuals first to get an idea. Bought a head gasket and bolt kit from engbldr (very nice quality) and went after it.
I'm not a mechanic and had never been this far into the engine before, but I marked everything with tape and bagged and marked all the bolts. Didn't really take any pics though. I cleaned everything really well and that took alot of time but thats just the way I am.
I made one choice knowingly that may have been a mistake. I chose not to have the head machined. The reason is that my engines bottom end is old and tired and I expect to need an engine swap before too long anyway. So rather than spend any extra $$ on the head only to place it back on a tired block, I went for the halfa$$ fix hoping to buy another year or so out of it. As best as I could tell with a straight edge the head wasn't badly warped but this is an area where more expertise would have been helpful.
Put it all back together and it actually started up which for me was a success, but it still smoked like a chimney. On subsequent startups the smoking has varied from very little to a moderate amount. The coolant level dropped after the first startup but has stayed steady since refill. No oil/coolant mixing at this point. I haven't set the timing yet either as I have a badly leaking #4 injector so I want to wait to get that fixed first. (Scored a set of injectors off Ebay for $3.38 that I'm going to send out for rebuild after this payday)
End result is I may or may not have fixed my problem (I think the jury is still out until I can get the other stuff in order that I mentioned) I learned alot. A major portion of my engine is clean with properly torqued bolts. I took a $72 gamble that may have worked. We'll see...
All I used for reference was my Haynes manual, the FSM thats published online for the '93 pickup, and Roger Browns 4crawler site. I had a helper most of the time which was a big plus. Especially for lifting the head off and dropping it back down onto the block and to bounce ideas off of or to doublecheck procedures. Sorry for the long post. Just previewed it. Geez...
86 22re with 235k miles. Blew white exhaust and lost coolant but didn't heat up to the red on the gauge (caught it just in time) Mine is NOT a DD so it could sit as long as I wanted to take.
As you mentioned I read lots of write ups and manuals first to get an idea. Bought a head gasket and bolt kit from engbldr (very nice quality) and went after it.
I'm not a mechanic and had never been this far into the engine before, but I marked everything with tape and bagged and marked all the bolts. Didn't really take any pics though. I cleaned everything really well and that took alot of time but thats just the way I am.
I made one choice knowingly that may have been a mistake. I chose not to have the head machined. The reason is that my engines bottom end is old and tired and I expect to need an engine swap before too long anyway. So rather than spend any extra $$ on the head only to place it back on a tired block, I went for the halfa$$ fix hoping to buy another year or so out of it. As best as I could tell with a straight edge the head wasn't badly warped but this is an area where more expertise would have been helpful.
Put it all back together and it actually started up which for me was a success, but it still smoked like a chimney. On subsequent startups the smoking has varied from very little to a moderate amount. The coolant level dropped after the first startup but has stayed steady since refill. No oil/coolant mixing at this point. I haven't set the timing yet either as I have a badly leaking #4 injector so I want to wait to get that fixed first. (Scored a set of injectors off Ebay for $3.38 that I'm going to send out for rebuild after this payday)
End result is I may or may not have fixed my problem (I think the jury is still out until I can get the other stuff in order that I mentioned) I learned alot. A major portion of my engine is clean with properly torqued bolts. I took a $72 gamble that may have worked. We'll see...
All I used for reference was my Haynes manual, the FSM thats published online for the '93 pickup, and Roger Browns 4crawler site. I had a helper most of the time which was a big plus. Especially for lifting the head off and dropping it back down onto the block and to bounce ideas off of or to doublecheck procedures. Sorry for the long post. Just previewed it. Geez...
04-12-2006, 12:17 PM
#12
Thanks for helping me think through it. My dad and I would be doing it, and he is quite mechanically inclined though he is not a mechanic. I'm not sure if he's done a headgasket before, but we have done two timing chains together.
So engbldr gasket and bolts, eh? That better than purchasing it from the stealership?
I will DEFINITELY have my head re-machined, especially after what you've said on here. Do people ever remachine the upper surface on the block? It doesn't seem like that would be able to warp quite like a head and I assume that sort of machining would have to do done only in a total overhaul when the engine is liberated from under the hood.
Along with the HG, I will probably rebuild all the intake side with new gaskets and things. Any other things I could do? Valve job probably - is it a big deal to change cams? It would nice to put in a mild cam to get a few more horses out...
So engbldr gasket and bolts, eh? That better than purchasing it from the stealership?
I will DEFINITELY have my head re-machined, especially after what you've said on here. Do people ever remachine the upper surface on the block? It doesn't seem like that would be able to warp quite like a head and I assume that sort of machining would have to do done only in a total overhaul when the engine is liberated from under the hood.
Along with the HG, I will probably rebuild all the intake side with new gaskets and things. Any other things I could do? Valve job probably - is it a big deal to change cams? It would nice to put in a mild cam to get a few more horses out...
04-12-2006, 12:58 PM
#13
I don't think there is anything wrong with OEM gaskets. I'm sure many on this board would swear by them and use nothing else. I'm just putting it out there that the EB stuff is very nice. I also don't think you have to have new bolts ( I believe I have read that they are single use only on the v6 but not the 22re) I got them just to be extra sure and the kit price difference was only about 10-12 bucks. You could also think about ARP studs instead, especially if you are going to upgrade your head. Check out Roger Browns info here:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ds/index.shtml
The nice part about new bolts was that I could use the old to act as line up guides. Read Rogers site about the studs lining up the head for perfect placement. I essentially did the same thing by cutting the heads off four of the old bolts and loosely placing them in the block, dropping the head down and then pulling the cut bolts and replacing with the new. Worked great. If you want to upgrade your head I would personally get one all set up. That way it's already machined with new guides/springs/etc. and usually your choice of cam and oversized valves if you desire. Plus these shops do them on a regular basis and are familiar with them.
I agree with you on the block. I don't know how it could be machined unless out of the truck. Also less likely to be warped than the head as it is cast and the head is aluminum. I noticed a little pitting on my block where the HG failure seemed to originate. I tried to shore it up with a small smear of RTV when I reassembled, but I imagine that is going to be a point of failure again sooner rather than later. (More fuel for my swap the whole engine theory)
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ds/index.shtml
The nice part about new bolts was that I could use the old to act as line up guides. Read Rogers site about the studs lining up the head for perfect placement. I essentially did the same thing by cutting the heads off four of the old bolts and loosely placing them in the block, dropping the head down and then pulling the cut bolts and replacing with the new. Worked great. If you want to upgrade your head I would personally get one all set up. That way it's already machined with new guides/springs/etc. and usually your choice of cam and oversized valves if you desire. Plus these shops do them on a regular basis and are familiar with them.
I agree with you on the block. I don't know how it could be machined unless out of the truck. Also less likely to be warped than the head as it is cast and the head is aluminum. I noticed a little pitting on my block where the HG failure seemed to originate. I tried to shore it up with a small smear of RTV when I reassembled, but I imagine that is going to be a point of failure again sooner rather than later. (More fuel for my swap the whole engine theory)
04-12-2006, 01:08 PM
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If you have had a HG failure i would for sure have it check to make sure it is still true. Aluminum heads warp pretty easy, and a cast block wont warp...well if it get thats hot your going to have seized piston and a warped deck will be the least of your worries.
There is nothing difficult to it, lots of pics, stay organized. Also, I would do the timing chain, since the biggest pain in doing a chain is pulling the head...You already have to do that.
if you are thinking about rebuilding the intake, and have the time, have the head tanked..It will get all the crap out of it.
Cams are super simple, in fact you will almost have the stock one removed to remove the head...
GL
There is nothing difficult to it, lots of pics, stay organized. Also, I would do the timing chain, since the biggest pain in doing a chain is pulling the head...You already have to do that.
if you are thinking about rebuilding the intake, and have the time, have the head tanked..It will get all the crap out of it.
Cams are super simple, in fact you will almost have the stock one removed to remove the head...
GL
04-12-2006, 05:06 PM
#15
Well I did the timing chain, water pump, and oil pump about 2k miles ago...
What do you mean by having the head "tanked"?
Is a cam a good investment? It seems like the 261c's are pretty safe, but do they really add much power at all?
What do you mean by having the head "tanked"?
Is a cam a good investment? It seems like the 261c's are pretty safe, but do they really add much power at all?
04-12-2006, 08:19 PM
#16
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you don't have an aluminum head tanked! most machine shops just pressure wash aluminum!
a head gasket usually takes a weekend if its your first time. it's not very hard on these engines. engnbldr's head set is about $60+shipping, includes all gaskets you need and a new set of head bolts. i'd take the head in and have it resurfaced, as it probably had a good reason for blowing the gasket!
a head gasket usually takes a weekend if its your first time. it's not very hard on these engines. engnbldr's head set is about $60+shipping, includes all gaskets you need and a new set of head bolts. i'd take the head in and have it resurfaced, as it probably had a good reason for blowing the gasket!
04-12-2006, 10:43 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by kyle_22r
you don't have an aluminum head tanked! most machine shops just pressure wash aluminum!
As for the cam?? All my TRD Stage II did was drop my mileage, badly
04-17-2006, 08:33 PM
#20
UPDATE:
HG change is a big success! Gasket was blown between a water jacket at #3 cylinder. Head was warped by about 0.005", milled back down, a few bent valve seats. Everything was fixed and cleaned by a very good machinist who has done a million 22re heads. Block face was scraped clean and filed down a bit with a whetstone to give nice shiny, flat metal to meet the gasket. Old gasket was inspected and due to a nick in it, it was probably installed incorrectly!
So, to shorten this story, the new HG is under a shiny head that has brand-new compression. It fired up instantly and the engine is running like new!
HG change is a big success! Gasket was blown between a water jacket at #3 cylinder. Head was warped by about 0.005", milled back down, a few bent valve seats. Everything was fixed and cleaned by a very good machinist who has done a million 22re heads. Block face was scraped clean and filed down a bit with a whetstone to give nice shiny, flat metal to meet the gasket. Old gasket was inspected and due to a nick in it, it was probably installed incorrectly!
So, to shorten this story, the new HG is under a shiny head that has brand-new compression. It fired up instantly and the engine is running like new!
