Ac/dc..........dc/ac
03-04-2008, 09:22 PM
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Ac/dc..........dc/ac
I'm talking about inverters. I know people on here have installed them, but while reading through numerous pages, I failed to notice any that were installed in the rear of a 2nd gen 4Runner. I'm interested in adding a 400/800peak power inverter to the back of my 4Runner. I'd also like to add a somewhat heavy duty 12V outlet back there as well. I have no problem doing a write up if I can get a plan underway. Basically, the weather is nice, and I'm looking for projects to do.....
I would like to know whether I need to add a ground wire all the way up to the battery, or if I could just ground it to the frame?
What guage cable do I need? (I'm thinking something like 4 or 2 guage, but correct me if that is overkill, or not enough)
Should I wire the two(12V outlet, and inverter) separetely, meaning two sets of wires, or should I wire them together( I will likely use one or the other, or a small draw from both)?
Fusable link. I need fuse that can handle that power from both things(if wired separately) How many amp fuse?
Any help from any one would be great. I'm planning on going camping in a few weeks, and would like to have this completed by then.
I would like to know whether I need to add a ground wire all the way up to the battery, or if I could just ground it to the frame?
What guage cable do I need? (I'm thinking something like 4 or 2 guage, but correct me if that is overkill, or not enough)
Should I wire the two(12V outlet, and inverter) separetely, meaning two sets of wires, or should I wire them together( I will likely use one or the other, or a small draw from both)?
Fusable link. I need fuse that can handle that power from both things(if wired separately) How many amp fuse?
Any help from any one would be great. I'm planning on going camping in a few weeks, and would like to have this completed by then.
03-04-2008, 09:41 PM
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I'm planning on running random stuff, I can't exactly tell ya, because I've never had 110V in the back of my car. I'm planning on only using a 400-500 watt continuous or 800-1000peak, so i think I could just go the next size up from what the 400 watt gauge would be. I'd like to have an auxilary 12V back there for camping(12Vcoffee maker, charging station, air pump, etc) The inverter would be used for charging things, powering lights, and other stuff around the campsite(or whereever I can use it).
03-05-2008, 06:17 AM
#4
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400 watts @ 12v is gunna be 33amps or so.
With that you're looking at 6 gauge. Yeah its fine to ground it to the frame, just make sure you pick a good ground.
Also make sure you put a fuse inline with the wires near the battery thats small enough to protect the wire from too much current. The fuse on the wire is for protecting the wire. there will be a fuse in the inverter, which is to protect the inverter.
If you want to put a 12v outlet back there too you should go with larger (smaller numerically) gauge wire. 12v outlets are typically rated for 10A. With that you're gunna want to drop down to 4 gauge.
Before you pick an inverter figure out what exactly you're looking to run with it, and then size the inverter from that, not the other way around. You'd be surprised what some stuff draws. Oh and with the stock alt you're only gunna be able to produce so much current, and drawing that much current with the truck off will pretty much guarantee that it wont start when you go to crank 'er.
you can look up tables online for what amperages use what cable for what length, but remember that you have to include the round trip (battery->inverter->battery)
With that you're looking at 6 gauge. Yeah its fine to ground it to the frame, just make sure you pick a good ground.
Also make sure you put a fuse inline with the wires near the battery thats small enough to protect the wire from too much current. The fuse on the wire is for protecting the wire. there will be a fuse in the inverter, which is to protect the inverter.
If you want to put a 12v outlet back there too you should go with larger (smaller numerically) gauge wire. 12v outlets are typically rated for 10A. With that you're gunna want to drop down to 4 gauge.
Before you pick an inverter figure out what exactly you're looking to run with it, and then size the inverter from that, not the other way around. You'd be surprised what some stuff draws. Oh and with the stock alt you're only gunna be able to produce so much current, and drawing that much current with the truck off will pretty much guarantee that it wont start when you go to crank 'er.
you can look up tables online for what amperages use what cable for what length, but remember that you have to include the round trip (battery->inverter->battery)
Last edited by MMA_Alex; 03-05-2008 at 06:24 AM.
03-05-2008, 08:20 AM
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I'd run the power wire beside the frame and then up through the body or the air duct on the left corner(behind the bumper). Drilling holes in the underside is never fun, but it can be done properly.
I'm gonna be doing a similar thing, but using 2ga and then having a splitter for an inverter and an 800W RMS amp for a sub. I just gotta get the stainless box built for the sub.
I'm gonna be doing a similar thing, but using 2ga and then having a splitter for an inverter and an 800W RMS amp for a sub. I just gotta get the stainless box built for the sub.
03-05-2008, 08:25 AM
#6
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Wire like this:
+ wire to battery, to 40-50amp circuit breaker to power inverter. The circuit breaker will shut off the juice if you overload it and then power it back on once it cools down.
- wire to a good ground, nothing wrong with the body..
Use heavy duty wire, at least the same grade as the inverter has or bigger though..
Thats how I wire everything and not a problem ever.
As for the 12V power outlet, 10-12 gauge wire should be fine. If you notice the plain jane ciggy outlet only has 16 gauge wire or less.. I would use 8 gauge or less for the inverter. Welding cable works nicely btw.. Wire them separately..
+ wire to battery, to 40-50amp circuit breaker to power inverter. The circuit breaker will shut off the juice if you overload it and then power it back on once it cools down.
- wire to a good ground, nothing wrong with the body..
Use heavy duty wire, at least the same grade as the inverter has or bigger though..
Thats how I wire everything and not a problem ever.
As for the 12V power outlet, 10-12 gauge wire should be fine. If you notice the plain jane ciggy outlet only has 16 gauge wire or less.. I would use 8 gauge or less for the inverter. Welding cable works nicely btw.. Wire them separately..
Last edited by CJM; 03-05-2008 at 08:28 AM.
03-05-2008, 11:29 AM
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I ran a seperate ground cable to mine, if you do use the body for ground at least upgrade the body ground wire to the battery (part of big 3 upgrade).
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03-05-2008, 10:30 PM
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Mt Goat:I''m assuming you are talking about the ground for the entire vehicle that goes to the frame. That shouldn't be too hard to upgrade to Larger cable, correct? What size should I look for ground cable, and where to mount it, stock, or other wise?
And, finally, I'm leaning towards wiring up the 12V on the same power source of the inverter, because I doubt I'll be using both, or at least never both with a heavy load draw. I'm leaning toward the 4 guage for the positive for the inverter. Is that too much, or too little, or what?
03-06-2008, 03:40 AM
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Thanks everyone who replied. Great advise.
Mt Goat:I''m assuming you are talking about the ground for the entire vehicle that goes to the frame. That shouldn't be too hard to upgrade to Larger cable, correct? What size should I look for ground cable, and where to mount it, stock, or other wise?
And, finally, I'm leaning towards wiring up the 12V on the same power source of the inverter, because I doubt I'll be using both, or at least never both with a heavy load draw. I'm leaning toward the 4 guage for the positive for the inverter. Is that too much, or too little, or what?
Mt Goat:I''m assuming you are talking about the ground for the entire vehicle that goes to the frame. That shouldn't be too hard to upgrade to Larger cable, correct? What size should I look for ground cable, and where to mount it, stock, or other wise?
And, finally, I'm leaning towards wiring up the 12V on the same power source of the inverter, because I doubt I'll be using both, or at least never both with a heavy load draw. I'm leaning toward the 4 guage for the positive for the inverter. Is that too much, or too little, or what?
4 gauge is good especially if you want to add other things later (like rock lights, amps, refrigerator, on board air, etc), but keep in mind the bigger you get the harder it is to work with...bigger connections, fuses, junction boxes etc. If you go that big I'd go with a seperate ground too.
Be sure to use split loom and fuse the positive as close to the battery as possible, a big positive wire makes a big fire fast if it gets accidently grounded. There should be a few rubber plugs in the floor board if you need to go from under the truck to inside the truck. Just make a small hole in the rubber and push it through.
Here's what mine looks like:
Last edited by mt_goat; 03-06-2008 at 03:51 AM.
03-06-2008, 09:39 PM
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The body ground to the neg battery post. Its only about 10-12" long. You can just leave the factory one and run another one, it never hurts to have redundant grounds. I like to sand the sheet metal down to bear metal (get the paint off).
4 gauge is good especially if you want to add other things later (like rock lights, amps, refrigerator, on board air, etc), but keep in mind the bigger you get the harder it is to work with...bigger connections, fuses, junction boxes etc. If you go that big I'd go with a seperate ground too.
Be sure to use split loom and fuse the positive as close to the battery as possible, a big positive wire makes a big fire fast if it gets accidently grounded. There should be a few rubber plugs in the floor board if you need to go from under the truck to inside the truck. Just make a small hole in the rubber and push it through.
Here's what mine looks like:
4 gauge is good especially if you want to add other things later (like rock lights, amps, refrigerator, on board air, etc), but keep in mind the bigger you get the harder it is to work with...bigger connections, fuses, junction boxes etc. If you go that big I'd go with a seperate ground too.
Be sure to use split loom and fuse the positive as close to the battery as possible, a big positive wire makes a big fire fast if it gets accidently grounded. There should be a few rubber plugs in the floor board if you need to go from under the truck to inside the truck. Just make a small hole in the rubber and push it through.
Here's what mine looks like:
03-07-2008, 03:33 AM
#11
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Not sure, I wouldn't go hog wild with it. Maybe use some dielectric grease or something less penatrating like RTV over the top. Do you guys use salt on the roads in Ca or something?
03-07-2008, 04:40 AM
#12
I failed to notice any that were installed in the rear of a 2nd gen 4Runner. I'm interested in adding a 400/800peak power inverter to the back of my 4Runner. I'd also like to add a somewhat heavy duty 12V outlet back there as well. I have no problem doing a write up if I can get a plan underway. Basically, the weather is nice, and I'm looking for projects to do.....
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f127...4runner-75268/
You can add twin 12v outlets back there too very easily.
The info for my FJ will also apply to your rig.
https://www.yotatech.com/50513787-post131.html
03-07-2008, 04:56 AM
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ah, finally, a thread where I can lend my expertise!
Using Voltage drop calculations, I have determined even at peak operating conditions assuming an applied voltage of 10 volts to the load (to increase the load amperage), you can maintain a voltage drop of less than 1 volt using 6 AWG wire. It will provide more than enough ampacity to provide power to your load. Upgrading your wire size beyond 6 AWG makes absolutely no sense, you are only wasting money... You could use 8 AWG as far as voltage drop goes, and as long as you are fairly certain you will not exceed 400 watts for more than say, a minute or so at a time, you will be alright. But if there is a possibility that you will, I recommend the 6 AWG with a 60 or 70 Amp fusible link of some sort. This way you will never have to worry!
I do agree that your Over Current Protection Device, or fuse/circuit breaker, should be as close to the source as possible. I also agree that upgrading your body ground is a good idea to prevent ground overloading. Use a 4 or 2 AWG in paralell with your existing body ground, and you should never have an issue no matter what loads you add to the vehicle. And a body ground will be more than adequate for a return current path. There is no need to run an additional body ground to your load and back. It will more than likely cause more of a voltage drop than a body ground...
there are very few things I post with absolute certainty on this site, this is one of those. I am an electrician and I run these numbers all the time. I ran them for you because its my way of helping out the YotaTech group that always takes care of me!
If you have any more questions, or would like me to help you with your Voltage drop calculations on the cigarette outlet, or conductor sizing, anyone, feel free to PM me, I'd be more than thrilled to help!
Hope this helps!
BTW, the current at 800 Watts at 14 volts is 57 Amps. Voltage drop with 6 AWG comes out to be around 1 volt.
Using Voltage drop calculations, I have determined even at peak operating conditions assuming an applied voltage of 10 volts to the load (to increase the load amperage), you can maintain a voltage drop of less than 1 volt using 6 AWG wire. It will provide more than enough ampacity to provide power to your load. Upgrading your wire size beyond 6 AWG makes absolutely no sense, you are only wasting money... You could use 8 AWG as far as voltage drop goes, and as long as you are fairly certain you will not exceed 400 watts for more than say, a minute or so at a time, you will be alright. But if there is a possibility that you will, I recommend the 6 AWG with a 60 or 70 Amp fusible link of some sort. This way you will never have to worry!
I do agree that your Over Current Protection Device, or fuse/circuit breaker, should be as close to the source as possible. I also agree that upgrading your body ground is a good idea to prevent ground overloading. Use a 4 or 2 AWG in paralell with your existing body ground, and you should never have an issue no matter what loads you add to the vehicle. And a body ground will be more than adequate for a return current path. There is no need to run an additional body ground to your load and back. It will more than likely cause more of a voltage drop than a body ground...
there are very few things I post with absolute certainty on this site, this is one of those. I am an electrician and I run these numbers all the time. I ran them for you because its my way of helping out the YotaTech group that always takes care of me!
If you have any more questions, or would like me to help you with your Voltage drop calculations on the cigarette outlet, or conductor sizing, anyone, feel free to PM me, I'd be more than thrilled to help!
Hope this helps!
BTW, the current at 800 Watts at 14 volts is 57 Amps. Voltage drop with 6 AWG comes out to be around 1 volt.
03-07-2008, 08:12 AM
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oh, and once you have your connection good and bolted to the body, you can spray paint over it. the electrical continuity is below the terminal, and through the bolt, not on the surface. In fact, due to the proneness of rust on these vehicles, I recommend that you indeed spray over the connection once its securely fastened in place.
03-07-2008, 03:02 PM
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Thank you everyone for your advice, and info. I will definitely be getting back to you(bigtrucknwheels) when I decide to break ground(no pun intended). Where do you suggest I start? Upgrading the ground point?
BTW, as far as I know, they don't salt the roads in California, at least not where I live. Since it rarely snows here, I think all they do is use the red rock, and plows.
Thanks again.
BTW, as far as I know, they don't salt the roads in California, at least not where I live. Since it rarely snows here, I think all they do is use the red rock, and plows.
Thanks again.
03-07-2008, 03:17 PM
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start with the body ground. its really easy to do. then run your conductor for the inverter, it should be almost as easy. I recommend going to Lowes or Home Depot or a local electrical supplier and buying 6 AWG type THHN wire. it'll be about the cheapest for the size. do NOT buy your wire from an automotive supply. they will over charge you by leaps and bounds. Measure it and add a few feet before you buy, not all places let you return wire just because its too short...
Plus your local electrical supply would have all the terminals you need readily available for you.
good luck!
Plus your local electrical supply would have all the terminals you need readily available for you.
good luck!
03-07-2008, 03:39 PM
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start with the body ground. its really easy to do. then run your conductor for the inverter, it should be almost as easy. I recommend going to Lowes or Home Depot or a local electrical supplier and buying 6 AWG type THHN wire. it'll be about the cheapest for the size. do NOT buy your wire from an automotive supply. they will over charge you by leaps and bounds. Measure it and add a few feet before you buy, not all places let you return wire just because its too short...
Plus your local electrical supply would have all the terminals you need readily available for you.
good luck!
Plus your local electrical supply would have all the terminals you need readily available for you.
good luck!
Should I upgrade my stock terminals, or just add a wire to them?
03-07-2008, 03:42 PM
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I put one on the positive of my truck. it has a wing nut on top, which works great. I can easily bolt loads fast to the battery, and just as easily remove them. Its twice as strong as the one I took off.
03-07-2008, 03:45 PM
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Go with marine battery terminals. They are extra corrosion resistant, and are pretty heavy duty. your stock ones will handle it, but if you are willing to upgrade, the marine ones are the way to go. you'll find there is more room on them to terminate wires as well.
I put one on the positive of my truck. it has a wing nut on top, which works great. I can easily bolt loads fast to the battery, and just as easily remove them. Its twice as strong as the one I took off.
I put one on the positive of my truck. it has a wing nut on top, which works great. I can easily bolt loads fast to the battery, and just as easily remove them. Its twice as strong as the one I took off.
03-11-2008, 11:19 PM
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Stage one complete!!! I bought the inverter.
I was thinking.... wouldn't it be incredibly simple to add an auxilary battery to this install??? I found the dual bank battery chargers for $39. It got me thinking.....
What do you think?
I was thinking.... wouldn't it be incredibly simple to add an auxilary battery to this install??? I found the dual bank battery chargers for $39. It got me thinking.....
What do you think?
