The Harrison

Nice work Magnusian, looks like it's coming along nicely. Definitely feel lucky that I don't have to deal with that much rust. I just pulled the 2wd out of my garage with its new clutch. Sadly though I wasn't able to locate a 5speed before the old clutch burned out, so it's still running as a 4speed.... However when I find the 5speed that will match up to my block, it's definitely going in.

Haha that's how it always is, a simple project quickly turns into a weekend long job. Or in this case a little longer
Good luck!

Magnusian

Hey The_Factor, still havin' trouble finding that 5spd, eh? Let me once again suggest looking for an older non-turbo supra with a W58 (they were used for a boatload of years, from what seems like mid-80s to well into the 90s). Just keep looking man, you'll find one eventually, though most of the ones I've found still have expensive, good condition, Supras attached to them, hard to find a parts Supra that hasn't been beat to hell (i.e. bad gears in the tranny) around here. If you're interested at knowing what the gearing is for the W58 it is as follows:

First Gear: 3.285:1
Second Gear: 1.894:1
Third Gear: 1.275:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.783:1
Reverse: -3.768:1

G40 (the 4spd in my truck) gearing is as such:
First Gear: 3.928:1
Second Gear: 2.333:1
Third Gear: 1.451:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1

According to s.beaty on SONTT the W58 is one of the closest ratio W series transmissions (note how close 3rd and 4th are, especially compared to the 4spd G series). The gearing is basically the same as the W55 but with a different input shaft that ups the ratios by about 8%.

This is good for us 2wd guys because it's another option for a 5spd, has arguably better gearing than most other W series transmissions and is a mere bellhousing swap from bolting up to a 22R. If you're pre-runnering your 2wd, it'll help you go fast too!

s.beaty was also kind enough to run some calculations for me regarding 3rd gearing, tyre size, and the W58 to give me an idea as to what kind of performance I could expect from running 31s with the W58. Here are the results to give you some ideas:

4.56:
31s, a w58 and 4.56 gearing results in 125 km/h at 3000rpm or 103km/h at 2500rpm in 5th (note 100km/h is about 60mph)

4.30:
31s, a w58 and 4.30 gearing results in 132 km/h at 3000rpm or 110km/h at 2500rpm in 5th

4.10:
31s, a w58 and 4.10 gearing results in 139 km/h at 3000rpm or 115.5km/h at 2500rpm in 5th

With my 4spd, 25s, and stock gearing (3.071) I can apparently hit about 145km/h at 3000rpm. I'm a little wary about gearing it even as high a 4.10 with the W58 because if I can keep in the 100km/h+ range in 4th, that'd be nice. s.beaty seemed to indicate that having a 22R higher up in the RPM range (2500-3000) was better for overall gas mileage and that the 3rd should be regeared to reflect this. 31s are only 6" taller than the stock height, so I don't know if 4.10 would be too big of a jump on a 2wd from 3.071. I'll have to run some calculations on the next gear ratio down (3.91) to see what that results in. Gotta remember a 2wd has a lot less weight to push around, so I don't think it'd seem all that gutless even at a lower ratio.

The Harrison

Thank you for all that gearing info, really helpful. I went to the local pick your part wrecking yard before I started my clutch replacement, sadly they only had 1 toyota truck with a 4 speed/20R block. I remembered your advice earlier about the Supra, and checked the yard for one as well. Couldn't find one though. I'm not worried, one should show up sooner or later lol, as for now I'm stoked to just have the truck up and running again.

Magnusian

I know it's been awhile since I've posted any sort of update in this thread, but basically, it's been a real trial getting the new backing plates, adjusters, levers, etc.

Not anymore though, stealership called me up earlier and they have the rest of my parts in and I'll be picking them up tonight! I'm going to try to get the old plates pressed off and the new ones pressed on this weekend. What this means is I should now technically have a new replacement for every part of the rear drums, these brakes better last me for a real long time or I'll be real mad.

Also, my lockrite is in and I need to go pick it up, I decided that instead of regearing that I'm going to buy a used 4.10 3rd and put the lockrite in that. Unfortunately the W58 I thought I'd found ended up getting bought up by someone else so I'm still on the hunt for one. Hopefully sometime in the next two weeks I'll have the axle together (with loads of pictures of course, expect some tonight of the new brake parts) minus the brake hardline that I still need to get made, but maybe by the end of the month I'll have axle together and back on the truck!

Now to order up some new diff studs, gasket, ubolts, shocks. I've decided for now to keep the rear suspension "stock" until I get and put on LT on the front, easier for me atm and gets my truck back on the road sooner.

Magnusian

Time for some pictures! Skip to the bottom of the post to ignore all the crap and see what is really, the only important thing here.

There's my axle housing, some parts, and my leafs just kinda sitting there, looking all sad and lonely and waiting for me to get off my lazy butt.


So, the axle shafts are done and ready to go back in! I ended up using bubblegum and fishing line to pull the old plates off and put the new ones on, worked like a charm! Still midboggling that I had to replace everything and drop so much money on just 30% of my braking power. These better last for forever.






























JUST KIDDING! (Yes, that is a B& on the bottom of the mallet, it is my "ban hammer.")


I ended up taking everything off except for the wheel cylinders, and all I can really say is that I am glad I bought all new hardware, here's the crap that came off. SSTs can suck it, my pliers and a screwdriver worked well enough!



Yes, that adjuster IS bent, but no I didn't do it. They're completely seized, and I also enjoyed all the random broken bits of springs that fell out when I got the shoes off. You might not be able to see so clearly but the braking material is actually peeling off the shoes.

Here's some closeups of the old wheel cylinders:



The one on top actually still works very smoothly, though it did spray out a lot of dirty, dirty, black brake fluid when I checked it over, strange because I -know- I bled both of them soon after I got my truck and thought I'd gotten all the crap out (it was coming out clear). This is the side the bent adjuster came off of.
The one on the bottom? Completely and utterly seized on one side, and also full of even darker brake fluid. It's a good thing I'm replacing these, I bet the other one probably isn't far off from being dead too. I'll keep them though as spares to rebuild in-case I ever need them.

So, enough of the old crap, here's some shots of the new.

Hi new, and correct drums! They're actually about 1/4" taller than the old ones, so I think I may have to put some sort of spacer between the hub and the drum, maybe not, hopefully not, because the inside height is the same. Yes, there is a little surface rust on them (my camera makes it look about 100x worse than it really is, that "spot" on the one is more like a light patch that is only slightly rusty), but I figure that's likely because these 5-lug drums aren't in high demand anymore and these guys have probably been kicking around for awhile, I bet the people at the warehouse they came from were surprised they finally got bought.


Don't you just love the sight of fresh, unmarred braking surfaces? I know I do.


So anyways, like I said in my last post, the rest of my parts arrived from the dealership, so here they are. Backing plates, adjusters, and the parking brake engagement levers, I'll have to salvage some of the pins and stuff from the old levers, but that's okay, since they're effectively the only original hardware that is actually in good shape. I really don't need to replace the levers, but since I've already got the new ones, might as well continue with going all the way with the new and keeping the old ones as spares.


Closeups of both sets, hopefully the old plates come off and the new ones go on tomorrow, depends on whether or not one of my fellow SONTT members has the time to do it since he has a press and I do not.



I think that's everything...






...or is it?

Why hello there little black and yellow box, what are you and what's inside?


Oh, oh my, is that a locker? Why yes, I think it is!


Mock-assembly just to see what it looks like.


It's honestly a lot smaller than I thought it would be, which easily makes it the most expensive hunks of metal I've ever paid for. Still, at $350 CAD, I think I got away with a good deal (since most places want $400+shipping), this thing cost me as much as my truck did!

So woo! All the important parts are here, there's a couple things I need to get for putting the whole axle back together (like a 4.10 3rd and new diff studs) but at least I should be able to get the new brakes together and on in the next week or two.

iamsuperbleeder

whoa, those are purdy!


great job so far



what's the total cost looking like, minus the locker? if you don't mind inquiring minds asking

Magnusian

Do you like how each hole in the plates has not one but two inspection marks? And people say Toyota doesn't care about quality.

That picture there is about $360 in parts (not including taxes). Drums were $75/ea, and everything else was around uh... I can't find the receipt but something like $200ish for the rest. So... about $800 so far I'd suppose, give or take $50-100 (I wish LCE still made 2wd disc conversion kits w/parking brake because it would've cost about as much, really regretting not buying one before they stopped selling them). I did buy extra axle seals though, and so long as I don't damage any more I only need one of the 3 I got (2 inners, 2 outers), so you can knock $45 off the cost, but I'll be keeping the extra seals as spares. I think next time I'll be seeing if I can get parts through someone in the States because I had to pay almost double what you guys would have to pay on toyotapartszone for just about everything. An American can expect to spend maybe about $400 to totally replace their drum brakes, probably less.

JamesD

Hey Magnusian, I too have the same axle as you sitting in my garage. Question I want to ask you is about the backing plates and brakes. Are they the same as the 7.5 rear axle? Mine are rotted out badly. Also are the axle bearings the same as the 7.5? Could you give me the part numbers on the backing plates? Also one more thing I need to mention. I was told that the 4WD 3rd's will not fit the 2WD 8" housings. The 4.10 3rd hits the back of your housing supposedly. As soon as you get a 4.10 8" 3rd, drop it in your housing before you do anything to make sure it fits. Again this is what I have been told.

Thanks, James

Magnusian

Here's the part numbers for the plates:

Right Rear Backing Plate (47043)
Left Rear Backing Plate (47044)

They'll be something like $55 USD for one and $65 for the other (I paid $110/120 CAD). I don't know why, it's just this way, maybe one side was harder to make than the other.

I have no idea about the fitment of 7.5" 2wd rear parts on the 8" 2wd rear, but I am going to assume they can't swap. I could be wrong, but without a 7.5" axle I have nothing to compare things with and alas it is pretty hard to find any pictures of these things online anymore. It's entirely possible the brakes are the same, and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they were, but I just don't know.

I haven't heard anything about the 3rds not fitting like that, only the myth that all 2wd rears are 7.5". Are you sure this is an 8" 4wd 3rd going into an 8" 2wd housing? That sounds more like an 8" going into a 7.5". However I will make sure to check it as soon as I get it, at the worst I should be able to harvest the gears since they're the same size. I have been assured by a few people at least that it should fit just fine, and from what I've seen they look identical except for the one fin on the 2wd case.

JamesD

Thanks for the part numbers!!

James

Magnusian

No problem JamesD! If you need any of the other part numbers I have them kicking around somewhere at home. Actually, I'm starting to think maybe I should list them in the original post since this thread is meant to help out other 2wd owners with 8" rears (and 7.5" 2wd ones, shouldn't be all that different so that someone with one could use this thread as a reference for how it comes apart and goes back together) just as much as it is a chronicling of me rebuilding my rear axle.

Lumpy

Just got to this nice work man!!! Ya it sucks that you got to spend so much for so little stopping power. But you do kinda need them especially with the tires your talking about. You know, the ones that the elephant brought to you while fishing for guinea pigs.

Magnusian

I have some picture updates to post and will get to that soon. Got the old plates and the bearing cases off, old bearings out, have to pick up some new felt pads, and some longer lug studs (because of the slightly taller drums). Nobody would happen to know of a Toyota part number for lug studs that are 1 or 2cm longer than stock would they? I was gonna see if NAPA had some, but if I could go OEM, I'd prefer to.

So far I've gotten most of the rust off the bearing cases but some of rust/metal that is flaking is really stuck on there and does not like my wire brush. I'm a little worried about using the needle scaler on them, since they are nice and round and have lots of corners and also because I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I destroyed the bearing cases. There's some rust that's creeping into where the seal goes into the case, so far it hasn't gone that far, but I'd like to remove it to halt the advance, any suggestions for cleaning it off without damaging the seat for the seal? I'll make sure to grab a picture of what I'm talking about once I finally get home tonight (working 8am-10pm, and it's 5pm, WOOOO, and of course no overtime, salary. ).

Oh, and I know I'll get admonishments for this, but I went with NAPA replacement wheel bearings (oddly enough, the old ones were NAPAs too if the markings are anything to go by), I wasn't really willing to drop $120/each on OEM bearings from the dealership (or to spend $60 on shipping for two from the US, negating any savings). The replacement bearings were $70 each, though next time I will get some OEM ones. At least they aren't chinacrap.

Heh, this is the second set of seals and bearings this axle has gotten in as many years, kinda lame that I had to destroy practically brand-new bearings to get the old plates off (Toyota, and everyone else it seems recommends that you -never- reuse bearings if they get pressed off, even if they seem undamaged). Neither bearing survived removal, they still rotate freely, but the side-to-side play is massive post-removal. Bit of advice when pressing the bearing case off the axle shaft, hammer out the four studs that pass through the backing plate and bearing case first, then seat your press blocks on the backing plate so that they are pressing down where the studs used to be (so that you're pressing on the case and not just the plate), this will save you from having to buy new backing plates if you intend on reusing the exiting ones, if you put your press blocks anywhere else, like say put them on top of the old wheel cylinder and on raised section on the other side of the plate where the parking brake cable passes under the bearing case, then the plate will resemble a saddle and become completely worthless, and the bearing case won't move at all. Make sure you are VERY careful when doing this (you'll need an assistant to hold the axle shaft midway-down once the bearing case starts to move, also be nice like the guys who helped me, don't drop the plate on his/her forearms) and go slowly and smoothly. If you press too fast it can become both dangerous for you (and your assistant) and the axle shafts.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

scribed! nice write up. I'm going to need it when digging into my new to me 91 2wd. Thanks.

Magnusian

Happy Canada Day! For those of you who don't know anything about Canada Day, think of it as our version of Independence Day, though it's more of a celebration of what eventually lead to Canada becoming what it is today. On this day in 1867, Great Britain laid down the foundation through an act of Parliament for our government and nation that finally lead to our sovereignty and became part of our constitution in 1982. See, unlike you guys, we asked nicely, it just took longer and the British monarch (who is presently visiting Canada) is still on our money.

Anywho! Time for some pictures of what's been going on with my axle!

So, on last Friday I went over to the house of one of my fellow SONTT club-mates, 4307 (he's on TTORA too I think) to get the bearings pressed off, backing plates off, and then put it all back together. I had to go pick up the replacement bearings first, and after having to wait 30 minutes at the shop for the owner to run out and pick them up from the supplier (who kept forgetting to ship them from across town), they were in my hands, along with a couple of free shirts. Unfortunately the putting it all back together part didn't happen, have some stuff to do still before that happens but it shouldn't be that long before it happens.

I didn't end up taking many pictures, forgot my camera and well, the iPhone 3GS isn't that great for taking quality photos but I did snap a few.


The setup we used for pressing. I'm taking the picture and not in it, 4307 is the black shirt, orange shirt is one of his work friends, they actually did all the work, I "supervised".


So, it took a bit for us to get setup and figure out how we were going to press these in 4307's 20-ton press without killing ourselves (this is pretty dangerous stuff, if you don't like the concept of potentially having something break and then break you, get someone else to do it, or if you have a better method already, go with that). Pop out those lug studs before you do this too, makes life easier. As you can see in this picture (which is actually of shaft #2) the ghetto press block setup spans over the top of the hub and presses down on the plate and bearing case where two of the studs go two points of contact worked, but four would probably be better. That plate along the top is a 1/2" hunk of tool steel that has a nice bow to it now, whoops!

Make sure you press down on the bearing case itself, or you will end up with a backing plate that looks a lot more like this (taken today with a camera that doesn't suck):


You need to do this even if you don't plan on reusing the plates, the bearing won't budge if you press on the plate and not the bearing case. Oh, make sure to take out the C-clip that "holds" the bearing in place, it'll be right above the little collar that's pressed above the bearing (sorry for the lack of pictures on this, when I get the new stuff pressed on I'll point out what I'm talking about in this post with a picture).


And this little lovely is one fresh-pressed axle-shaft (this is the first one), the only real difference I can tell between the 6 lug and 5 lug axle shafts for the 8" rears are the drive flanges (and brakes), this guy has the same number of splines (it'd have to, to fit my lock-right). I'm really starting to think that even my axle housing is probably the same as one from a 4x4 and that maybe I could have saved a bit by buying one of those service kits I see on all the aftermarket sites instead of buying all the seals and bearings separately.


Last image from Friday, of one of the plates (the bent one) with the bearing case still stuck in the middle of it, the silver ring you can see is the inner-race for the bearing, the kinda blackish-brown ring is the outer axle seal, and the dark and thick rust-coloured ring is the bearing case.

4307 also pressed the old bearings out of the cases for me, here's what the old bearings look like.

A shame too, these guys only had a couple hundred kilometers on them but they're totally schmuckered now.

Here's some other trash that came off too, need new felt pads and if I can't find a replacement one of those plates, I guess I'll be hammering it back flat. It's bent because I tried the "use a bolt to pop the drums off" method, but apparently my old drums were aftermarket and missing the two extra threaded holes (ilostmypants and I discovered this the other night, new drums do have the threaded holes), and so I tried the only threaded hole and ended up mucking that plate up. If you drum is stuck and like this (missing the holes), a BFH is the way to go (and if your adjusters were like mine... but your drums are worn and have a ridge unlike mine, good luck).


Stand by for the next post to have today's updates!

Magnusian

So, today because of the holiday I decided to get to work on cleaning up the bearing cases and drive flanges so I can rust protect the outsides of the cases, the hubs, and remove old gasket material from the surfaces that won't be painted.

So, here's what I started with, I'd already cleaned on and had started on this one before realizing I was forgetting to take photos (hence the clean spot). There ass about a 1mm thick crust of rust over the entire exterior of the cases. I'd started with a toothbrush-sized wire brush because I lack a vice here (it's up at the farm) and really did not want to muck up the inside of the cases, since the bearings get pressed into them and marring the inside is a Bad Thing (tm).


Here's what I ended up with after about 3 hours and numerous curses:


Before/After cleaning:



By this point a lot of the rust was off but some of the material that was flaking off was just too stuck for the little brush to work. So, I grabbed my wire brush drillbit and in the spirit of 92_Toy's booty-fab, started hunting down a drill and some zip-ties. unfortunately the drills are apparently all up at the farm too, except this one:

My late grandfather's old(er than me) drill press, it's a little small, max bit-side RPM of 2600, but it is solidly built, and my leg worked well enough for bracing it from moving when pressing the bearing case against the brush. I put on some gloves (VERY NECESSARY IF YOU FOLLOW THIS METHOD), turned on the drill press, picked up case number 2 and started to go to town. Be very careful around the seal seat and the bottom of the case (which is the surface that mates to the axle housing), you don't want to touch the inside at all passed the angled lip.

Half an hour later, I was looking at this, should have used the drill press before, nice shiny clean metal ready and waiting for a wipe down and the Tremclad (Rustoleum) primer:


I plan to primer these guys with two coats, followed up with a single coat of flat or semi-gloss black Tremclad (depending on what the store has, no gloss though, looks yucky), they're not gonna be seen all that often and I don't want to build up a thick coating of paint and then find that it's a real pain to get the new plates on (it's already a tight fit). I'll be doing that in a little bit.

So, after getting the cases cleaned, I looked over and saw these two axle shafts with dirty and rusty drive flanges, something I intended to correct, only without a drill, and the awkwardness (not to mention weight of the axle shafts) a modification to my brushing setup was required (note: the lid of the press is open because the drive belt is stretched and old and rubs against the inside of the lid when it's closed):


Is this smart? Probably not. Is this dangerous? Only if you want it to be (Yes, it is! The press actually kept kicking up if I pushed too hard on the brush, I won't be doing it this way again).

Axle shaft numero uno before cleaning:


After cleaning, and shown beside the other axle shaft for reference. Make sure you are careful when doing the underside of the flange, you don't want to touch the surface the bearing presses onto at all.



It was at this point I started on the next shaft, only somehow it had grease on it around the hub (which was camouflaged by it's rust colouring and dirt) while the other one didn't, now my wire brush looks like this and the second shaft isn't clean. I am hoping a quick dip in some solvent will clean it off, I wanna prime the hubs tonight too if I can.


That's it for now, just waiting for my brother to finish up the yard work in the backyard so I can get to painting the bearing cases without having to worry about grass clipping. Wow, I feel like I've actually gotten somewhere in the past week with this.

Magnusian

And the priming of the bearing cases is done! Got two coats slapped on there (waited about an hour between coats). So, here's a few more pictures of that. I'm really starting to think I should have gotten some POR15 to do this, and if I ever have to do it again, maybe I will, but this is going to be in a relatively protected area inside the brake, and I'm sure the Tremclad will more than hold up.

All remaining grease and dirt removed with liberal application of acetone and a house coat cut up into rags, as the acetone dried I noticed that the cases took on a slightly darker lustre, not sure if it means anything, but these guys are going in a protected spot anyways, so if some of the paint comes off, I don't think I really need to worry all that much. After wiping the acetone off, I let them sit outside for about 45 minutes in the evening sun.



Now, how to keep the paint out of the inside of the bearing case. I wrapped the old seals in saran wrap and shoved them into the hole they normally go in, but from underneath. They didn't cover all the way up to the top of the lip, but I figure a quick go-round with the wire brush drill press from [heck] will take care of that if it poses a problem when inserting the new seals.


My paint booth is my backyard!


Coat number one. I know it seems like I sprayed it a little thick in a few spots (and in fact I did), but the areas the picture seems to make look like that are probably just shinier and smoother looking as a result of the flash on the camera, trust me, the coat was pretty thin and you could still see the darkness from the metal underneath when I was done.


Coat number two. After waiting for about an hour.


Some close-ups:



I'll be giving it the once-over with a coat of black Tremclad tomorrow.

That's all for now, folks, stand by for more in the next couple days!

Edit: Would anyone happen to know if it's possible to get 5-lug chromoly rear-axle shafts? Replacing the OEM ones (in the event they break) would run me $330+ each (and that's the American price, knowing that the dealerships up here like to charge double that, I'd be looking at $600 a shaft ). Not that I expect to ever destroy them, but it'd be nice to know, a search of Toyota Minis didn't turn up anything but that site is confusing and I probably overlooked it.

yotaman90

Did you ever finish the axle?

Magnusian

Nope, got side-tracked on other things while waiting for some parts from MC and now I just need to put it back together, no excuse now that I have a press. I need the leaf springs back on my truck so know where to weld the new perches on since I'm converting to LOA so, it's kinda waiting on me to do that. The frame repairs are next so I'll try to finish up the axle a soon as that's done.

Oh, the bearing cases are black now, guess I didn't take pictures of that...

Magnusian

Forgot my camera, will take pics next time I'm able.

Pressed the new wheel bearings onto the axle shafts on Saturday. One thing I thought was strange was the ease with which the new bearings went into the bearing cases, I literally pushed them in by hand (everything was at roughly freezing temp, used MP grease). Worried about this I immediately popped them back out and tried the old bearings, which went in just as easily. The casings for the cases are not cracked and I did nothing to the inside of them and could easily make out the machining marks. I did need my press to put the bearings onto the axle shafts. Not sure what to think, it might have been temperature related, and I do remember the old bearings coming out of the cases easily in 4307's press. Need to order some new studs from the stealership and then I'll assemble the brakes.

Also installed the Lock Right into the 4.10 3rd, installation was easy enough except some doofus (me) forgot to mark which adjuster and bearing retainer was left and which was right. Also had to put the new diff flange on. The FSM says that the torque on the nut needs to be between roughly 150-250 foot lbs and seems to hint at it being different depending on a few things. What do I need to do to get this ready to go back in? Am I going to be okay adjusting the backlash and torquing the flange nut to say 200 foot lbs myself or should I be looking for a shop/friend to do it?