bigtrucknwheels

no need to be a jerk...

hear me out

if you do this
-Cams
-Oversized valves
-AFM mod
-a little port/polish
-Advance the timing
-ISR mod
-Headers/full exhaust
-Full tune up (plugs cap rotor wires, etc etc)

all to a freshly rebuilt block and machined head, I would be willing to bet my 89 Pickup you could get 170 at the crank and 20 MPG (with a 5 speed), no doubts.

I will admit, I was wrong about price, more like 1500, but its still cheaper. then you don't have to modify anything on the truck itself.

and don't you dare tell me with a re-routed exhaust that a 3.0 isn't as reliable as the 5VZ. that is its fatal flaw along with the switch over to the new gasket material for the late 1990/early 1991 model year and up. If you eliminate that cross over and put in the latest revision of head gasket from Toyota, if you keep coolant in it like you would any other engine, it won't pop a head gasket any quicker than the 5VZ.

I've got two 3VZ's, one with 198k and one with 212k, both have their original ASBESTOS head gaskets from the factory, and both hold great compression. the engine with 198k leaks oil around the head gaskets like you wouldn't believe, but it still runs well. and let me make it known that I do not baby my vehicles whatsoever. I bought a Toyota because they take a beating and keep coming back for more, so I do just that.

now, that all being said, yes, the 5VZ is superior in every way basically. I do not, however, appreciate all the members of this board who bash someone for liking the 3VZ. sorry, but if you were to do what I listed, it would be a great motor for what it is.

and thanks for the negativity, guys.

P.S. I plan on doing all of that to one of my 3VZ's along with a manual swap, and the other one is getting replaced by a 7M-GTE with a 5 speed. For the money, I'd much rather have the 7M any day. 300 HP with exhaust, slightly bigger turbo, and NA cams, thats at the wheels. oh, and you get 25 MPG all day long. can't say that about the 5VZ.

Elvota

Just for clarification, I don't dislike the 3.0. Mine never let me down and had reasonable power. I just don't feel it compares at all to the performance of the 3.4.

The problem with your mods now reaching $1500 is that my swap was in that ballpark (after selling the 3.0). The swap itself takes far less labor as well in comparison to the mods you listed.

I put a lot of time and money into the 3.0. Headers, rebuilt top and bottom end, various accessories replaced, ISR mod... all good ideas. I just wish I had spent that money and time doing a 3.4 swap in the first place.

That said, I don't think I would have been mechanically prepared to do such a swap without all of the "practice" wrenching on the 3.0 first.

bigtrucknwheels

ah, well my way, a 3.4 is going to cost you 1200, with no warranty or anything. whereas I can rebuild a 3.0 with all those mods for 1500. factor in the cost of rebuilding the 3.4 on top of my initial 1200, and its already more than the 3.0, plus all the other parts needed for the swap.

that being said, I have mad respect for you and anyone else who does their own motor swap. Yes, I think the 3.4 is a great engine, and if I really needed more power and wanted to stick with a close to stock engine, the 3.4 would be my engine of choice. but my philosophy is if I am already modding the entire engine, why not go all out. it will cost not a whole lot more for a 7MGTE swap than a 5VZ swap in my case... bottom line, number one problem I have with the 5VZ is that it costs so much for so little of a gain. I am talking about doubling the horsepower of my beast for a few hundred more than the 5VZ would cost, and that's only about a 40 horse power gain...

but still mad respect for doing it yourself, and I am personally happy that you are happy.

Volcom

Good luck wiring that 7MGTE to your 3VZ. That's the glory about the 5VZ. It just bolts right in and ORS has already figured out the wiring issues. If you need more than the 40 extra HP over the 3VZ, add the 7th injector and SC it

Whitey13

That's all most need to know about the issue.

Dan.3

[QUOTE=bigtrucknwheels;50924390]no need to be a jerk...

hear me out

if you do this
-Cams
-Oversized valves
-AFM mod
-a little port/polish
-Advance the timing
-ISR mod
-Headers/full exhaust
-Full tune up (plugs cap rotor wires, etc etc)

all to a freshly rebuilt block and machined head, I would be willing to bet my 89 Pickup you could get 170 at the crank and 20 MPG (with a 5 speed), no doubts.

I will admit, I was wrong about price, more like 1500, but its still cheaper. then you don't have to modify anything on the truck itself.

QUOTE]


dude stop talking.

Cams? nobody make cams for the 3v. the headers are designed to eliminate the gasket issue on the new 3vz. they dont add any horse power worth mentioning. all that listed might make maybe 5hp. the headgaskets were a flaw of the 3.0 but the downfall of it is that it cant be modified to make any horse power. hense the 3.4 if what you say is true then nobody would go through the little bit of extra work to drop in a 3.4

SO STOP TALKING!!!!!

bigtrucknwheels

ah, but the beauty of being an electrician comes to play when one must mate wiring harnesses. aside from motor mounts, I can do the rest myself. and yes, there is even a bell housing for 300 that connects a r150 to a 7M block. its a thing of beauty.

I believe you are being a little immature. we have forums to discuss things. let me ask you, how much have you done to a 3VZ? have you ever swapped a 5VZ? ever even driven either one? who are you to say what mods can do what. 5 HP? are you kidding me?

and get it right, sir, before you say no one makes a cam for the 3VZ. Weasy2K makes a great cam, that yields about 10-15 HP and about 2-3 MPGs... and yes, that is for the 3VZ. there are a few members on this board that run them and all of them seem to be very happy with the added performance of the cams...

what is your deal dude? Why must you be so rude?

RobD

I'm going to second and third Elvota on this.

Dude, you're throwing out a whole lotta "ifs" to polish the 3.0, and with all that you won't, 100%-guaranteed-take-it-to-the-bank will not make the same power as the 5VZFE with the same reliability.

And suggesting the 7MG as an easy replacement is freakin' ridiculous. Do you have any idea how many more mods that would take and it also has a head gasket problem of its own. The 3.4 is such an easy swap, it's not even funny. There is very, very little fab work to be done, unlike the firewall massage you need to do to squeeze a straight 6 in, plus all the other crap that goes with it.

No offence, but unless you've swapped a 3.4 and driven it for a year, you have zero idea what you're talking about.

Praise the 5VZFE, all hail the mighty 3.4.

Elvota, your turn.

catodon

I've only got 285,000 on my '88 but once it goes I will likely upgrade to a 3.4. As the great Malcolm Reynolds once said, There is no such thing as "Too much power"! Of course he also said "My days of takin you seriously are certainly comin to a middle".

bigtrucknwheels

to suggest everyone switch to a 3.4 simply because it is newer and far better tuned, is not right. Like someone said, a 3.0 is more than enough for most people on this board. swapping an engine is not the solution to everyone's problem.

and I am telling you, we have seen it on this very board, replace the stock cross over with headers, so long as some DIY'er did everything completely right on his rebuild (seems to not be the case more often than not), the head gasket problem disappears. other than that, what 'fatal' design flaw can you think of that will stop these engines? we certianly know its built rather stocky. and we know they have a great torque curve. I can show you a ton of 3.0's with well over 200k on them, still on original HG's and such...

Please don't make me out to be a fool because you believe that what you did was the only way to go... I will not argue that the 5vz is inferior in any way, the exact opposite is true. But I will argue that swapping a motor is not the solution for most of us. Deal with what you got. What if your 5VZ lets you sit, are you gonna swap it out too?

RobD

Whoa, don't put words in my mouth, big fella. If you will read my posts, any of them, regarding this swap, you will see that if someone has the means and the time to swap, I tell them to go for it. I am also very clear in letting them know that for the money they outlay, if they absolutely want the 3.4, they're probably better off selling their 3.0 equipped vehicle and buying one that already has the 3.4 in it.

You will likely never see the money that you put into this swap, again.

But you'll also see that, for the select few that really want to get into the swap, that it's a great idea. The swap itself is easy if you have the right tools and motivation. It puts out more power, gets better economy, and is more reliable. I always tell people that if they love their second gen and can't see getting rid of it, it's a good way to go. I also tell them that it's a great learning experience.

Never have I said it's the only way to go.

If you tell me that the 3.0 is good for most people, I will agree with you. If, however, you're going to sit there and tout that the 3.0 will put out the same horsepower "with a few mods" as the 3.4 and the same reliability, I have to call BS.

And I can supercharge the 3.4 if I want. Go ahead and give the 3.0 a shot of forced air.

If it does decide to pack it in one day, I can guarantee that another 3.4 will take its place. I have almost 50000 kms of trouble free operation on my swap in a year. I have never once regretted the swap.

bigtrucknwheels

My personal apologies, RobD.

I took what you said in all the wrong lights.

and not to encourage more argument, but someone here on YT is/was running a 3VZ on about 8 PSI of turbo power for over a year with no problems...

my only beef with this mod is that the 5VZ is a 3.4L DOHC torquey stocky motor that puts out 190 HP/220 ft-lb. The 3VZ is a 3.0L SOHC torquey stocky motor that puts out 150 HP/181 ft-lb. The 3VZ is well known for having a super restrictive intake, heads, throttle body, the whole nine yards. I cannot for the life of me reason how the 5VZ has only a 40 HP gain over the 3VZ.

and on that note, personally, I can't justify spending $1500+ on a mod that will get me marginally better HP/fuel economy. and from a reliability stand point, a Toyota is a Toyota, we bought them for that reason. the 3VZ, being one of the worst motors Toyota ever made in recent history, its still pretty solid. 200k+ out of an internal combustion engine without a hiccup is pretty good, esp compared to the domestics...

now, you s/c that pig and do a little work to the 5VZ, and its all the worth while. if I wanted big horsepower and V-block torque curves (A.K.A. a trail machine), you better bet I would be the first in line to drop in a 5VZ. but personally, the swap plus a S/C kit is more labor and far more cost (unless you find a s/c'd engine) pails in comparison to a 7M-GTE swap. But the 7M isn't for everyone. It will suite my needs just fine, whereas the 5VZ suites you much better than it would ever suite me.

why am I for the 7M? exhaust + NA cams + slightly larger turbo = 300 rwhp. and 22+ MPG's. plus the pure blast of driving a quirky turbo charged motor.

but seriously, again, my personal apologies RobD. I didn't mean to sound nasty or put words in anyone's mouth. I now feel ashamed of myself haha.

-Clint

RobD

Apology acknowledged and accepted.

And trust me, there is a huge difference between the two motors. Hills in the Rocky Mountains that I used to take in 3rd gear, struggling to stay near 45 mph with 31" tires, I can now take in 5th gear with 33" tires.

I think the problem with those HP numbers is that the 3VZFE might have been a bit more optimistic than what they actually were. Or that the torque curve isn't as fat as the 5VZFE. I get about 10-15% more MPG, which at the current prices, is about $6.00 per tank. With where I work, I fill up about twice a week. I average about 260-295 miles per tank.

I figure in about 5 years, it will have paid for itself!

I suppose I could buy a little car and get better fuel economy...nah. I have to give the Prius owners something to feel self-righteous about.

bigtrucknwheels

I love pulling up to one and watching the people's faces when I pull next to them in my loud ass reeking-of-uncombusted-gas rusted out lifted 4x4.

gets 'em every time.

Dan.3

weasy cams getting 10-15 more hp huh? Since he nor anyone else that has purchased his cams have yet to post a dyno of it I am very high skeptical of his claims. That is like saying the TORNADO gives you 20% better fuel economy. Im am not say that his cams are not an overall improvement (they most likey are) but IMO if I came up with an improvement the first thing I would have done would be to post the dyno chart. You dont get it Bigtruck. People make all these claims with all these improvements to the 3vz and yet no proof. For a while people thought modifing the stock intake on a 5vz improved fuel economy when in fact it actually dropped alittle. That is one example of claims that some people make on these boards. Note that bumpinyota did say he was still dissapointed in his thread. I have yet to see anyone say that with there 5vz swap. The 5vz has been proven.

how about this.... you find me a post with the dyno or find someone to post their dyno with all the mods you have mentioned and I will admit Im wrong. Nice thing too about the 5vz is 87 octane. With advanced timing and cams im guessing 87 isnt really an option.

and btw my 5vz swap was probably around 2.5-3k and that was for a 99 motor with 70k on it. Although I will agree with you the 3vz is a reliable motor other than the head gasket, I kind find it hard to spend 1.5k on a motor that will still have 200k+ with most of these motors have on it. The 5vz become more of an investment down the line. And it is so much easier to work on than the 3vz. IMO the extra money was well worth it when it came time to hook the vacuum line back up.

So let me know when you find your dyno

HelliphinoN8

Screw it! Throw a 4.0L in it!! Lol!!!

Volcom

I've seen it done by a friend of mine. I've love to have torquey 4.0L I-6 under the hood.

gspot

i think i know the answer but going to ask anyways. can you put the heads from a 3.4 on a 3.0?

cadman

I'll tell you anyways ..... no.

idanity

i heard from another user that the main issue with the 3.0 is the exhaust manifold is too close to the head and breaks down the head gasket.

to resolve this issue would mean installing headers (which would improve power, but not like the 3.4).

i too, have a blown 3.0, (header) and since so many others recomend it, i would opt for a 3.4 along with most others

unsure when i can afford it, but still want to get that truck rolling again.