If I had a flex plate out, or could find a pic on the webs, I can tell you if you can or can't put it in backards...

darn... If you find a pic, see there the center welds to the ring. It will either be on the outter edge, or in the middle...

Middle and I'd say you can't put it on backwards...

You can also take the starter out and snap a pic... post it on here and we might see something... Beats removing a tranny you don't have to.


Also might want to PM a mod and have this thread moved to a more high traffic area...

 

also, make sure you see post #13.

 

I pm'd Coery about moving the thread, also read the link you posted on #13. It may very well be time for me to rebuild the starter.

I think that I am going to have to pull the trans no matter what at this point. I didn't realize that one of the bolts for the flexplate was different & I really do think that I have it in the wrong hole & the flexplate is out of center.

 

Bump,

Anybody have any other ideas?

going to start yanking this tranny in 5..4..3..2..1..

 

Test the starter first for gods sake, unless you enjoy pulling trannys lol. Hot wire the solenoid terminals on the starter...If you hear it click in and out then you can start looking for another reason (along the lines of what you are thinking already). If it does not click in and out then you can call the starter dead and replace it.

It is much easier to troubleshoot before pulling things to have a look. You wouldnt pull a head to see if the head gasket is ok would you...you would peform a leak down test first - same deal here, do the easy things first.

 

Is there any chance you didn't get the torque converter fully seated in the transmission? What would happen if that were the case would be that bolting things together could cause the flex plate to, well, 'flex' and would put the ring gear, etc. farther forward, closer to the engine, than it should be.

Any chance there is some crud or something between the converter's pads and the flex plate causing the the flex plate to bend in one direction?

Another thing could be the crankshaft... you remember the torque converter has a cup on the engine side that goes into the recess on the crank so the converter is centered on the crank? If there were crap in that recess, it could cause the converter to tweak to the side a bit and thus tweak the flex plate.

As far as I remember, the flex plate can be installed 'reversed' without issue since the ring gear is centered on the flex plate itself. And it would go flex plate against the crankshaft, shim, then bolts. The shim is there to spread the torque from the bolts around the mating surface to the crankshaft since the flex plate itself is rather thin, unlike the flywheel on a manual transmission equipped vehicle.


Too add- I had a problem with our 92 2wd where the torque converter's shaft was bent a little bit- the part that engages the fluid pump in the transmission, and that wouldn't let the converter slide completely into the transmission. Flared that out a bit so it was round again, instead of oval, and things went together like butter on, well nevermind.
I pulled the engine, leaving the trans in the vehicle, and replaced the torque converter for the heck of it. In retropect, I should've left well enough alone. But I put the torque converter in the trans then bolted the engine up and spun the converter and engine to install the bolts after the two were mated. I don't know if you did it that way or bolted the converter to the flex plate then mated everything together.

 

I hear you man, & generally endorse the same start simple theroy. However I am convinced by the symptoms that the heart of the problem is in the flex plate not being centered.

 

Thanks for this reply, you bring up some valid points. As far as the torque converter being fully seated in the transmission, I think it is but no way to really be sure. I did have a hell of a time getting the bell housing to mate with the block when I put the engine back in which might make me think that it is not fully seated. However when I put the torque converter bolts in I had about 1/8" gap & I pulled the converter towards the flex plate with the bolts which make me think that it was all the way seated

As far as how I arranged everything before I put the engine back in I had removed the flex plate to replace the rear main seal & I pulled the torque converter out of the trans to replace the front trans seal. I put the converter back in the transmission & bolted it to the flex plate after the bell housing was mated. When I went to put the torque converter bolts in I had to get the holes in the flex plate lined up but they would not spin independent from each other. I wedged a pry bar against the torque converter to prevent it from spinning & turned the engine with a socket on the crank pulley to get them seperated. Heard a small POP and after that they spun independentlly I I had no problems getting the holes lined up.

I have pretty much made up my mind that the flex plate is not centered on the end of the crank shaft & therefor not spinning true. As I am turning the motor with my ratchet / socket, the starter draggs for just about exactlly half of a reveloution & in the same place in every reveloution. I am still not sure how I am going to get it centered once I get the trans out. My chilton (wothless) does not make any mention of the one special bolt having to go in first to center it? I guess what ever the problem is, I am going to find it tonight. I already have the transmission prepped to come out tonight, I have the starter & shifter out, all of the wires & linkage disconnected & the 2 top bell housing (the ones that are a pain to reach) bolts removed.

I have spent more hours searching for info on the special bolt than I have in actual wrench time, If anyone could find me a link or something to read, or recalls seeing the special "tappered" bolt please pass on the info. Thanks guys.

 

I have seen a special bolt for bolting the torque converter to the flex plate. On mine it was a different color and was slightly different (bigger I think) in the shoulder area of the bolt. But that shouldn't effect the flex plate to starter clearance any that I can see. I've never removed the flex plate from the engine on a Toyota, so I can't say on that set of bolts.

Have you tried looking in the FSM for some info on it? Here's a link to the free online FSM page: http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/index.html

Do you have a way to measure the drive plate runout?

 

Thank you for the links Mt Goat, I am downloading the fsm right now, I hope I can find what I'm looking for.

I do have a dial indicator & stand that I can use to check the run out.

 

From the 93 FSM, your's may be different, I quote:

If you didn't do it the first time, clean any rust off the pilot hole and very lightly grease it, that might help it slide back together easier next time.

 

Thanks, did not do it the first time but will do this go around.

 

Also did you notice this part, not sure what that's about:

 

I did, and since the orientation is already lost I am just going to pay extra close attention & hope for the best, I have not found anything in the FSM link you provided, but I'm still looking.

 

Now that the tranny is out, I can tell that the flex plate is not out of center like I thought but it is definatlly hitting the starter bendix. I carefully examined all of the flex plate to crankshaft bolts & they are all the same, none is special & there is a hub that centers the flexplate to the crank shaft & no way for it to be out of center. I put an indicator on the face of the flex plate ring gear as indicated in the FSM & I have excessive runout, around .075". So the diagnosis is that the flex plate is bent! I did also confirm that the starter bendix is free & not sticking.

I am still working on a solution, I brought the flex plate to work with me this morning (machine shop) to see if I can straiten it. I am also going to make a .030" shim for the starter. I checked to see that the starter bendix jumps out plenty far enough to safely engage with the flex plate and that the shim will not effect the function, it will just buy me a little extra clearance. I'll let every one know how it all works out & up load some pics later.

 

Maybe you can find one at a bone yard that's not bent.

 

I have been calling around local salvage yards & found 1 but he almost wants what I can buy a new one for it. I have been working on straitening mine, the FSM says .008" run out is the max allowable. I am pretty sure that I can get mine to run at least that good. I have it in a lathe, on a mandrel that I made & just by pushing & pulling, prying I have it with in .015". I think I am going to take it home & bolt it back on & keep trying to working at it.

 

Sounds good, is it fairly easy to bend it?

 

Not too hard to bend, the problem is bending it in a controlled fashion.

I am curious as to how it got bent in the first place, only thing I can figure is that I bent it while I was putting the motor back in.

 

nm... my comment wasn't worth posting after I thought about it.