vsi1600

Hey all, long time lurker first time poster here.. hoping to get some advice on what may be a simpler problem then I realize. TIA for any help.

Anyways, I picked up a '90 22RE Pickup, 5 speed, and decided to do the timing chain because the guy I got it from had no idea if had been done.

In any event, the chain installation itself was very straight forward, and the chain went in easily. The engine was turning fine after the new chain went in, without any signs of crunching valves. The rest of the reassembly was straight forward and uneventful.

New plugs and wires were installed to big green book spec, and the distributor went in on the same tooth that it came off on (done before the turning I talked about earlier).

Long story short, it doesn't start. I have narrowed it down to being caused by the spark. (It's getting gas, and the compression should still be fine.) It almost wanted to turn over once, but only once. A timing light showed a few slow sparks, but no luck. After cranking 8-10 times over a 25 minute period a strange smell emerged from the vicinity of the coil, and it stopped sparking altogether. No smoke or anything.

It hasn't sparked since.

Could I have done something to screw up the coil, did I just get unlucky, or is there something I am missing here?

TIA for any help..

Flash319

Was it running before you did the chain? Spark is straight foward on these engines. Distrbutor pickup-ECU-igniter (box on the coil), ignitor dumps the coil. Check your EFI fuse, and all fuses for that matter. Distributor plugged in?

vsi1600

Thanks for the response Flash.

Yes, it was running and starting fine before the chain, which is what makes this mysterious. I did only drive it around for a day before doing the chain (just bought it), but it certainly didn't seem to have any spark problems whatsoever, although the plug wires it came with were in terrible shape. I only mentioned the timing chain detail in the event that there is some crazy electrical gremlins that can come about as a result of having everything pulled to do the chain which I did not consider.....

I replaced the coil today for the heck of it because the resistance was way out of range on one side, and because it was cheap enough, but still no spark.

The EFI fuse is fine, it was removed once to bump the started without flooding the engine, but was reinstalled uneventfully.

The distributor checks out (with the multimeter) and it is plugged in.

Which brings me to the conclusion that the ignitor decided to die at this very inopportune time. Dunno what could have caused that, but I can't think of what else it would be. It is old and high mileage. It does explain the strange electrical burning smell coming from the vicinity of the coil.

Anyone have an ignitor they are willing to let go for cheap?

vsi1600

Bump. Tried a new ignitor, still no luck. Anyone have any ideas?? Went through the whole troubleshooting flowchart, but it was out of a 95 4Runner manual so it could have been missing something...

abecedarian

If you pull the coil wire off the distributor and hold it near metal while someone cranks the engine over, still no spark?

vsi1600

Yep. Still no spark.

I'm stumped.. I've been over all of the obvious stuff repeatedly and thrown all kinds of parts at the thing (new plugs and wires, aftermarket high performance coil and salvaged ignitor from a reputable source...)

It's gotta be something unusual. Wiring nightmare of sorts.

Anyone know what that little black rectangular plastic that mounts at the base of the coil with two wires coming off it is??

abecedarian

Getting +12V at the coil?

The igniter switches ground, IIRC.

vsi1600

With the key in the ON position I get 12V at the positive terminal on the coil. I followed the 22RE on vehicle spark test from the 95 4runner manual:

Check connection of ignition coil, ignitor, and distributor connector
Check resistance of the plug wires (brand new wires)
Check power supply to the ignition coil and ignitor (~12.7V)
Check the resistance of ignition coil (within specs)
Check resistance of signal generator (also well within specs)
Check air gap of distributor (within specs)
Check IGT Signal from ECM, skipped this. They say the engine has to be idling to do the test..... I'm going assuming it's not the ECU.
Try another ignitor. <- done.

=|

I only have $100 bucks in parts in it for this SNAFU so far. Thinking I'll just take it to this well respected Toyota mechanic a mile or so away and see what he has to say. Too bad I'll need a tow

abecedarian

I'm at a loss.
The distributor / signal generator sends a signal to the igniter which either uses that signal to spark the plugs (during cranking) or sends the signal to the ECU which in turn tells the igniter when to fire a plug (for ignition advance after the engine is running).

I would say it's the igniter, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

bipolarandproud

Check if the distributor rotor is in working order ,maybe something broke off.

94YOTA928

this happend to me too..i put the distributor back how i took it off and i had put it in wrong because i thought the engine turned the opposite way..i cranked the truck and nothing...then i realized that the motor spun a diffrent way..so i took my distributor cap of and spun the motor to tdc..then i corrected the distributor and i laughed all night about it...

vsi1600

Thanks for all of the replies. Good news: I have spark now. It was the ignitor.. One of the connectors wasn't seated fully, whoops.

Bad news: it still doesn't run even though I have confirmed that every plug is getting spark. There is a good clue as to what it could be, however.

I lined up the crank pulley to 0 again and checked the rotor in the distributor and it was way off of #1. I am about 97% certain that it went on properly during the timing chain reassembly procedure. In any event, I put it back in with the crank on 0, and made sure I got the rotor pointing to plug 1 on the cap, with the cap installed correctly (of course), torqued everything, went to crank, and still no luck.

So now my question is, what could be making my distributor out of synch? ...particularly after doing the timing chain. The distributor drive gear went back on correctly, and neither the cam gear or the crank moved at all during the chain install (still no terrible valve bending noises either.) The chain install itself was very easy with both bright links lined up with the 12'o'clock marks on the gears.

Thanks for the input all

abecedarian

If the engine is at TDC of the compression stroke {emphasis added}- you can check that both intake and exhaust valves are loose / slack, install the distributor with the rotor pointing near straight up 12:00, actually a little towards 1:00 since the engine doesn't sit level in the chassis, basically perpindicular to the valve cover gasket surface. The rotor should rotate CCW and end up at around 11:00-11:30. And the distributor should end up with about 50/50 range of motion with the adjustment bolt.

vsi1600

Ah ofc, that is why it looked terribly in the wrong place with I pulled it off this time. Durrrr.

Well, when it went back on after the timing chain was done, it was still on TDC compression, but I could have been off by a tooth, I suppose.

I'll make sure I get it back on right and give it another shot first thing tomorrow...

abecedarian

Yeah, I say pull your spark plugs and rotate the engine by hand, with a finger held tight over the spark plug hole, until you feel the piston pushing air, then rotate it to 0, then remove and replace the distributor.

Good luck

94YOTA928

dont forget that the engine rotates in one way!

vsi1600

Well, I just put the distributor back in TDC *COMP* =D with the rotor pointing to #1, and the bolt lined up with the scribe mark I made when I pulled it off, and I do believe I smelled (and heard) a hint of combustion.... but it didn't start all the way.

I wiggled it around and still no luck. Thinking I am either off by a tooth, or I flooded it from too much cranking. (Cranked 5-6 times in a 5 minute period.)

I kept trying to get it on the drive gear teeth on either side of the one I had it on, but it would get stuck. I could only get it pretty much right on #1 with plenty of room for adjustment by twisting, or way wayyyyyy off.

I did get it to fire once or twice though, so I must be close....

94YOTA928

i cranked mine till my battery was almost dead because i thought i had put everything on right and it backfired and all untill i found out the next day that i had my cap in the wrong position it usually helps if you have someone crank the truck and the other person movin the distributor..then when you get it fired up get a timing light..

vsi1600

yeah... I guess at this point my questions are:

1. How critical is the positioning of the distributor? In other words, how far off can I be and still get it to start even if it runs super rough?

2. How easy is it to flood a 22RE? (How much cranking can I do before I have give the fuel time to evaporate?)

I've gotten the engine to "cough" a couple times since it went back together, but nothing really close yet...

Flash319

It has to be very close from my experience. What I do is with the crank at TDC I put the rotor facing the clip that holds the electrical plug for the distributor. It is attached to the base of the distributor. It is a bit ahead of #1 cylinder contact. That usually gets me started.

Do you have fuel getting to the rail? Crack the cold start injector line and see.
Are the injectors firing when you crank? listen.

It is not to hard to flood but it will fire and bang and crap, not just crank if flooded. I still say your dis is off a bit.