MortonPhotographic

This weekend I went to my favorite Toyota junkyard to find it closed so I called my buddy to hang out (totaly unrelated). He informed me that the owner of said junkyard was stabbed to death by a friend in his house--very sad, he was a nice guy.

I went to some other junkyards to find a cold start fuel injector switch, but all the 'Yotas were gutted... then, on the hood of a Mercedes, I noticed a complete 22RE intake--no lie. The sensor was there and it tested out good.

So today I took the Runner on a long drive with steep hills. Wanted to get the engine good and hot (temp guage barely moved) and try to make sure those rings are seated.

My smoke issue is intermittent. Sometimes it billows smoke, sometimes it looks fine. Bottom line, oil is getting into the combustion chamber. On one hand it looks like the rings are seated at cylinder #4, not so much at #3 or #2, and it's almost there on #1. That or the valve guide seals are bad. Everything else has been double and triple checked.

So is there any way to look and see if the valve guide seals are bad? Is the only way to check them by pulling the head?

lovetharunner

Beautiful 4Runner and awesome pictures! Sorry to hear man. I know how frustrating this is for you. I replaced my head gasket last spring and I remember how it felt when my 4Runner still continued to billow white smoke after putting it all back together. I was ready to roll my 4Runner off a cliff.

I had to put about 25 highway miles (needed to get up to 55mph atleast) on my 4Runner and adjust the valves before it finally stopped.

angrybob

Not 100% definitive but its the only way to check valve seals that I know of. Takes two vehicles.

Get out on a road say at 55-60mph in top gear. Have the second vehicle close behind you - close enough to be able to see smoke coming out of your exhaust pipe. Video would be even better. Drop your tranny into 3rd gear and have to other guy note the amount and color of smoke. High rpm off-throttle will cause high internal vacuum and the most chance for blow-by in the valve seals. You can then confirm this theory by getting on the gas again, dropping vacuum and hopefully reducing the amount of smoke.

Compression check and leak down are not good indicators of valve seal condition.

Good luck.

PismoJoe

Does it smoke always upon startup? And then not so much?

MortonPhotographic

@ Lovethrunner, thanks. I have over 250 miles now. I have driven fast, slow, higher RPM, lower RPM. Might be worth adjusting the valves. That would give me a chance to try and peak at those valve seals too.

Thanks Angrybob. for the most part I would say it doesn't smoke much when I am driving--but it is hard to tell because I am driving.

@ PismoJoe, it's the opposite, nothing at startup then, after the engine warms up, it will billow smoke at takeoff from some stop lights, but not all.

MortonPhotographic

I stopped by Right Toyota today to get some new oil filters. I have purchased most of my parts there and they know me by name and take good care of me. I have always liked this place, and today they upped their own bar. The parts desk guys were very helpful and talked with me about my smoking issues. Then they got Matt, one of the service guys to come talk to me.

Matt was a young guy but he knew his Toyota engines inside out--he was the best! He talked through my issues and quickly and easily explained hwo a lot of the tings worked--you can't buy this kind if insight!!!

I also have some idle issues. Matt told me how the 22RE is sensetive to crank case ventilation issues and I told him my dipstick is loose and most likely leaks--he pointed out this was a problem. He also told me 22REs are picky about the thermostat and that I needed a Toyota thermostat (seriously, this was not a sales gimmick, he wasn't "that" guy)

Matt also told me that smoke from a stop light, as opposed to constant smoke is most likely valve guides.

So now I have some things to tinker with, once I get all the little things sorted out I will look more into the vavle guides and, sadly, may have to pull the head off to fix this issue.

I want to say again how happy I am with Right Toyota in Scottsdale on Frank Loyd Right. They have really done right by me in a world where most buisness have not! I highly reccomend them for all your Toyota needs!!!

http://www.righttoyota.com/index.php

Teuf

I'll sign up to see how this pans out, good luck.

MortonPhotographic

MAJOR CHANGE UPDATE!

After attending to the stuff I learned about at Right Toyota, I think I have solved 90% of my smoke problem.

I have put in a Toyota thermostat, installed a new, tight dipstick and I changed the oil to Valvoline 20W50.

Basically it stopped smoking. Now the only time it smokes if after I sit at a light for little bit and then take off--but it does not do this at short stop lights.

Here is the big thing... I took off my oil fill cap while the truck was running and it billowed white smoke like before--maybe worse. I put the cap back on and it doesn't do that.

I am now thinking my problem has been a vacuum leak that has cause improper crank case pressure. I think my remaining issues are small vaccuum leaks I have yet to find. So my main issue seemed to be the dipstick.

This might be part of my vacuum issue... The truck idles high at stop lights. If I step on the brake, the idle drops and then pulsates from 800 to 1100 RPM. I let off and it goes back up--this is very consistent. Sounds like a vacuum brake booster issue to me.

Any input in regard to all this would be greatly appreciated!

MortonPhotographic

Put this in another post that helped me find the issue, but figured I would add it here as well:

Took out my AAV today--it wasn't that bad. Worst part was dealing with the radiator fluid.

1) Looked in it and passages were clear.
2) Blew air into it (both water and airways) and it flowed through.
3) Tested impedence and it was like 50 ohms--well within range.

Seriously, this isn't the problem?!?

Then I shook it--the rattle inside was obviously a problem so I opened it up. Turns out the little tab was broken off. Basically the flat metal part turns, but it does not move anything else in the unit and therefore the air section was always blocked off.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347168/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347168/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mortonphotographic/, on Flickr
This is my pain.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347100/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347100/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mortonphotographic/, on Flickr
Here is the AAV opened up. That round-ish plastic disc turns when the hot water rotates that flat metal piece. Notice that the flat metal piece will not come in contact with the plastic disc. That is because the little piece at the bottom broke off.

My AAV tested out perfectly, so if you have the idle issues related to it, but yours tests out, open it up and take a look inside. It is just 4 phillips head screws and a rubber gasket (I think) that should re-seal up when you put it back together.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6266823673/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6266823673/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mortonphotographic/, on Flickr
Here is a shot of the Auxiliary Air Valve bolted to the bottom of the intake plenum complete with air and water hoses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347128/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6267347128/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mortonphotographic/, on Flickr
And this is the AAV out of the vehicle. It is Toyota part number 22230-35010 at least for my 1988 4Runner, 22RE, 5 speed, 4X4.

"G"

Nice truck, i'm going to say that hone is too rough. Needs to be finer. Smoke coming from your valve cover and dipstick on a rebuild is most likely blow-by. I think your rings did not seat properly because of the hone and or your break in procedure. How did you break in the rings?

MortonPhotographic

Thanks G. I let the truck run at idle for 20 minutes at first startup and then I drove it carefully for 50 to 70 miles. I would try various speeds and RPM, but never got on the too much. I have continued to drive it for 350 miles total and still and pretty easy on it.

"G"

Yeah that most likely is your problem then. Your supposed to drive it like you stole it once you start it. That's the most important time for your rings, so they seal properly.The idling for 20 minutes was not good. Probably glazed the rings and they did not seat properly. Especially the oil ring. I'm willing to bet your compression is not optimal either.

MortonPhotographic

Unfortunately there are several different opinions on how to break in a motor so it is hard to know which one is best. For me, running a new engine hard seems like a bad idea, but I can see how it would help break in the rings.

I had always heard you were supposed to let a fresh engin idle for 20 minutes to let everything mesh together--it made sense.

As for compression--it's perfect, dead on from one cylinder to the next. It is 200psi which seems high though.

xxxtreme22r

If using a new cam you must let it sit at a varying rpm 2500-3k ish to break in the cam. If running the original cam no need for that break in. The cam break in is more important then the seating rings as you don't want to flat spot a cam. It took my truck about 3000 miles to fully seat the rings. Your always gonna have a little blow by. 200psi is a little high on the compression. Shouldn't be much more then 170 if using stock compression pistons. A little lower if bored and not decked. Slightly higher if not bored and decked. But not 30psi higher.

I am both bored 20 over and have the block decked by 10 thous and I am running 170-173 in all 4. With a new cam (268 eb) After after the cam break in I changed the oil. Then went out and ran it to 4k-4500k with a little more then half throttle and let it slow down to about 1500k with only letting off gas using the engine to brake and slow down the truck, I did this like 3-4 times with a little down time to cool off. Then came back home and changed the oil again. Drove it normal since then.

Most important part in the break in is not the engine rpm it's lugging the engine with large throttle low-mid rpm for the first 1000-1500 miles and doing several oil changes in between.

MortonPhotographic

XXXtreme. Your break in method is a lot more in-line with what I did.

The head is a new casting and the block is a replacement from a jukyard that the builder got. As far as I know everything else is new and stock. Not sure why the compression is so high

Gonna go put my Auxiliary Air Valve back together and back inthe truck and see how she runs. With any luck I have narrowed down some of my issues, if not all!

BTW, when you look in the air passage of the AAV, when it is cold. is it blocked off completely, or only partially blocked off?

MortonPhotographic

Oh, and here is my original cam... now that's a flat spot!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6283108241/http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonphotographic/6283108241/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/mortonphotographic/, on Flickr

xxxtreme22r

That I can't answer and is one of the reasons I love my carbs.

MortonPhotographic

Haha, I had nothing but problems with the carb on my '78. Basically I have no idea how to work a carb, and mine was dumping WAY too much fuel. I took it to a mechanic I thought I trusted and they couldn't figure it out, broke my hood release cable and charged me $400--and people wonder why I'm not so quick just drop my vehicle off at a mechanic. After that a corporate/chain smog/repair place wanted another $400 to fix it--nope.

In the end I found a trustworthy Toyota mechanic in Riverside, CA that charged me $25 to adjust the carb and do as pre-smog. Guess who got all my business from then on!!!

MortonPhotographic

Just put it back together. Still runs pretty nice without white/blueish smoke. I can make it smoke, but I am pretty sure it is black smoke, so it is running rich.

The AAV did not fix my weird idle problem. Maybe their is air in the radiator fluid? It would make sense. I just pulled the battery negetive cable to reset the computer and am going for a drive. Might have to try another AAV.

One last thing I need is a cat--anyone have a stock size bolt-in cat?

MortonPhotographic

Grrrr... Went to try and burb/top off the cooling system and it is blowing tons of black and white smoke again.

Anyone wanna buy a 4Runner?