mojomarj

Hi everyone,
this is my first post and my first toyota....yay! Any hoot.....I have a 1986 4x4 5speed 22RE P/U. I've noticed a loud whining noise when I press on the accelerator and there's a lack of power especially under load. I've had one mechanic drive it around and he says it's definately not tranny issues (what I thought) but maybe the rear diff. Then I had it towed to a toyota shop that's been servicing imports for 25yrs. He told me at first he didn't notice or hear any of the problems I described. He then drove it around a bit longer and he heard the noise I told him about. He said it's in the tranny but he can't rebuild it b/c he doesn't have the tools any more and parts to rebuild a classic like mine. He also mentioned that they have to adjust and mess with the rear diff and put in a new water pump. So the question for all you 2nd gen geniuses are:
1) could it be a tranny prob or a rear axle/diff prob?
2) does the mechanic really need special tools to rebuild this type of tranny?
3)if the whining is coming from the tranny, why is the low power and noise in all gears and not in certain ones?
4)if he has to rebuild or install a new/used tranny and transfer case why does he need to mess with the rear diff?
5) oh btw in first,second and third it clunks really loud when shifting, could that be a transfer case issue?
6) is he trying to ramboozle me into unnecessary repairs?
7) he asked me what I did for a living b/c I drive all over the u.s. and also asked around how much I was looking to spend
8) should I risk driving around to get a third opinion on my beast?
9) his super rough estimate is $2,500 or more
Any advice or suggestions would be AWESOME!!!
thx

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

Welcome to YT!!!!

wow...maybe a video or something could help.

Where he get the water pump from, ya gotta leak?

Does the noise sound like it's coming out of the tranny tunnel or is it resinating from behind you?

Lack of power? Sounds like it needs a tune up maybe...not sure why the diff would cause lack of power...unless you're running oversized tires on stock gear ration(4.10:1, btw...)

yoder519

wow this made me laugh. if a mechanic asks you " so how much you plan on spendin" chances are, hes gonna burn you up.

mojomarj

Hi bigblue,
don't know where he's getting the water pump, im assuming he'll install a new one. As for the tune up, I did that already alittle over 3,000 miles ago. The noise is coming from under me towards the back. I can hear it when I have my back window open. No over sized tires

Yoder519---hahahaha made me think twice about his integrity. I figure I'll show up@ the shop and grab my truck and send it to someone else.

BigBluePile

iTrader: (3)

I'd say rear diff then. You can always check the play on the pinion yourself.

Still, the 22R-E is NOT a rocket motor...soooo, when you mash on the throttle is going to "go"...now if it feels like its "falling on it's face" then that's a problem. Could be EGR, bad O2 or clogged injectors...etc...

mojomarj

Hey guys,
I went back to the shop and got my truck. I forgot to mention it's got 374,000 orig mi on it. I don't really know if the tranny and the rear diff has been replaced or redone. Currently i'm on my way back to st. Louis (hopefully i'll make it) from mmaysville,OH and i've been looking for used tranny's and rear diff's online. What ?'s should I ask and what should I look for in getting used parts? I found a 1985 tranny with 145,000mi on it would that be compatible with my 22RE? I'll send it to another mechanic and get a third opinion when I get to belleville,IL hopefully I can get a real answer with what's going on.

mojomarj

Bigblue---what's an EGR?

mojomarj

I also tried to record the noise but all you can hear is all the back round noise mixed in with the whining. I'll think of a different way of goin about it and once I do i'll post it.

myyota

Have you checked the fluid levels in the transmission/transfer case and rear end, if there low it can cause a noise. For the lack of power i would replace the 02 sensor if its original or has a lot of miles on it.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Mojo,

Welcome to Yotatech. I hope you make it too, geeesh, ...that stinks having to wonder!

Myyota is right, and I've had it happen to me, where I was getting all kinds of noise from the trans on one truck(almost EMPTY of gear oil) and rear end on another one(rear pumpkin was cracked and it leaked out, and WOW was that loud. Felt like the truck was going to rip in half, lol.

EGR is an emissions device that is located on the back of the upper intake. It looks like a bent tube with a lil flying saucer on top. To be honest, if you're really that fresh to learning about mechanics, I would recommend getting a basic Haynes Manual, and then also download a Factory service Manual(most will just call it a FSM). You can get them in downloadable form. This will help you walk through some troubleshooting procedures and also give you a quick and easy to understand layout of where everything is and what it does. Your O2 is your Oxygen Sensor, and it's located on the downpipe, on the exhaust manifold(you'll see a wire going to it)... They can cause BIG problems with power if the computer is reading wonky things from it. EGR as well can TOTALLY stifle your power. Fuel Filter, actually, would be the first thing I'd do if you've not changed it with your tune up or since you could remember. That can REALLY starve your truck of power and cause strange symptoms like hesitation, etc.

PS> On the noise thing... try driving with the windows all up and just record a video to catch the sound. Don't worry about the video quality... it will really help for us to hear what kind of whining you have. Move the camera from the front seat into the rear area so we can see where it's loudest from.

best wishes, Mojo, and be safe on that long drivin!

Mark

Moonfish

Put the transfer case in neutral and try all the gears. If it's the tranny, you'll hear it.

My 5 speed was making noise a few years ago. The local places only do autos.

You can pull the plugs and get a sample from the tranny and the diff. I think it will be obvious?

Mountain Cop

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry your truck is giving you issues.

It would certainly be worth your time to drain your transmission and refill it to spec with quality gear oil. Your drain plug should be magnetic. It should have some metal on it. It should have a LOT of metal on it! Drop a magnet in your drain pan and see what comes out with the oil. That can tell you a lot about the condition inside your tranny.

Do the same thing with your rear diff.

If all that checks out, before you refill the diff, it might be worth your time to disconnect the rear drive shaft and see if you (with the truck on jack stands or a lift, tires off the ground, truck in neutral, no parking brake) can spin the tires by turning the drive shaft flange. If it is stiff, turn one of the tires and see if you hear scraping / dragging noises.

Over time, the crush sleeve on a pinion can wear down, causing the pinion to bind. Either that or a bad pinion bearing could easily cause lots of noise and lack of power. The diff is connected directly to the transmission, so sound will transfer back and forth.

You could also put the truck on jack stands and have a friend shift slowly through the gears while you listen from outside. (which beats our old okie way, which was to just ride around town in the back of the truck, listening).

Hope you get it figured out! Start with the cheap/simple stuff.

MC

mojomarj

hi everyone......
thanks for all your great replies and tips. ok so i went back and did what ya'll recommended. i rechecked all fluids and did the neutral shifting. i also finally got a hold of the mechanic that's worked on my rig for the past 17yrs. (he owned this truck for 10yrs) and talked to him about the tranny and what the typical life span of them are. he told me these trannies espically manual ones are pretty tough and i shouldn't be having issues with it. but any how as i was starting to change the fluids he called and also recommended to start simple and drain the fluids one by one and see if i can notice a difference. when i did the tranny oil it WAS low!! so i filled her till i couldn't fills her no more . i ran the truck around and the whining has muted down to a low shallow whine.....YAY!!! it didn't completly stop it but atleast it doesn't worry me so much. after all that i felt like like a DORK with a dunce cap on, but then i thought about it and wondered why out of nowhere the tranny oil was so low from the last time i checked. i don't know if i should worry about this but......i checked around the tranny and noticed that the inside of the clutch housing and the clutch arm thingy (excuse my ignorance :p) was covered in wet badness. i don't know if it's leaking tranny oil from the input shaft or a bad connection from the front bearing retainer (what my friend and i saw in the schematic layout)or just normal wear and tear from the seals and gaskets of the bearing retainer, should i be concerned about this and will this leakage cause oil to get into the clutch pressure plates and slip? hahahahahaha.....oh BTW about the first problem.........is a low muted whining normal or am i just being paranoid that the tranny is gonna go out?

......on my way out the door to do another test drive........i'll update all you folks on how it goes.............

yotasavg

stupid trucks... always whining about something....

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Mojo,

You've probably ran the trans gear oil down to where it caused some bearing and or gear wear..... The gears will pull up fluid to bathe things, but that doesn't mean the bearings were getting enough wet goodness, lol. Mine was whining when it ran really low, and making this intermittent clicking type noise(somewhat like a speaker reacting with another electrical device)... I filled it up, and the tough in and out of the gears situation cleared up pretty much, but the noise remained, just milder. Then, after around 2 months, it just slowly stopped making noise. It still pops out of 4th if I don't shift it just right, but that's even far less as well. Not saying "you're fine now, just drive it"....... cuz that could be bad advice, ....to 'ignore it'. But, you'll have to drive it locally to see if it's improved. And you're doing that, right now, so good.

Also, I had fluid coming from there, where yours is, and it was the clutch slave, leaking down the arm and to the bell housing window and out. If it's leaking from there and it's NOT the slave, ....it could be either the rear main or trans seal(is it really clean? Get a white piece of paper and also, check it's consistency... 90Weight is obviously different... you should be able to tell if it's oil.(especially if your oil is dirty), lol. And yes, if it's oil from the rear main or trans seal, it can damage your clutch disc, etc. NO WET BADNESS in there is ok. hahaha.

mojomarj

90 weight?......dang it i put 75W-90 and a bottle of the lucus awesomeness. is this gonna cause problems? i drove all around town yesterday and noticed the whining is still there but mostly in the higher gears (3rdish and in 4th & 5th) and when under load. i also had a real hard time getting her to shift into first...till i used brute force and finesse...hehehe. i was going through this site and found that alot of guys swear by redline. if i drain the tranny and put this magic redline in would it be worth it and will it really help my shifting?

Junkers88

May not be your problem but I'll post up what I dealt with.

On my 89 4runner I had a similar whining noise, topped off the tranny with synthetic and the noise was a lot less noticeable but still there and I had a hard time getting the rig into first gear. I dropped the tranny and replaced the clutch, P-plate, and TO bearing and the noise was gone and the shifting improved.

The diagnosis after all that was that I had two areas that were making noise.
1) the tranny due to low/old fluid
2) the TO bearing due to wear and age.

Hope that helps.

mojomarj

hi guys sorry i haven't been able to update y'all. so i made it to California.. yay......i haven't changed the TO bearing because the mechanic guy told me he had just put in a new clutch 45,000mi ago and there shouldn't be any issues. someone else had suggested maybe it's the rear main seal??? but isn't that seal located towards the end of the tranny? i drove with the whining anyways...now after driving 1,400mi gear oil is leaking underneath. i'll try to post some pics. most of the wetness is on the clutch unit and sprayed all the way back and that clutch release cylinder arm is a wet mess. I'm totally confused at this point. when i first got my beast i suspected there was a leak somewhere so i pressure washed the underside of it till it gleamed. I've been keeping an eye out under there and it seemed to stay pretty clean and dry. all the fluids were topped off, then at some point the whining came in.....rechecked the fluids and noticed the tranny oil was super low. so i drained and filled it (not much metal junk on the magnet). noise in 1st 2nd and 3rd went away but still there in 4th and 5th. couple of days later the noise came back in all gears. drove it to cali and now there's an oil leak (not engine oil) viscosity is too thick. the back end of the engine where it connects to the clutch is dry but the underside of the clutch housing is wet and all through the tranny and back. the engine oil pan is dry also. hope this makes sense to all ya gear heads. and if i need to take it in what should i tell them so i don't get totally reamed with repairs ol' gal doesn't need.
thanks everyone for being so patient and helpful with my funky issue.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like the rear main to me, on one end of your problem. It leaks all onto the clutch components and then out the inspection plug. However, I would think that would cause more slipping, etc. Plus, it WILL wear out your clutch disc much faster. It's creating hot spots on the flywheel as well, when it gets continuously soaked with motor oil.

On the gear oil end, the main seal on the tranny could be leaking as well. That is NOT good, as it could suddenly get worse and then, ....well, you know, 'CAPUT'. You don't wanna drive it dry, but you can't know what's in there without popping that fill/inspection plug on the side of the trans, ya know? The main seal toward the front of the trans wouldn't be a bad idea to inspect, especially if you find your rear main is leaking and, well, you'd have to drop the trans, anyhow, to get to that rear main, ya know? Personally, I'd drop the trans and do them both, at least, for now.... I understand, you're probably wanting to not have to rebuild the trans, etc.(which you might not even need.... If you look at my above post, I had a similar problem, and mine is still running fine 65K+ miles later.) You should be able to replace both seals for minimal cost and some decent amount, but not too daunting amount of labor.

Guessing that the best route to take, at this point, would be to get in there and start seeing where the oil inside the bell housing is coming from, eh?

mojomarj

chefyota4x4---i take it the bell housing is the clutch housing cover unit thing....right? and yes...i really don't want to replace the tranny...hopefully that's not the problem and it's just a bad seal and all i have to do is redo the clutch. that type of work seems a bit too much on my plate....mind you i'm mechanically inclined but not familiar with clutch/tranny dropping work.

callin all yota tinkerers...are any of you in my area? i'm in chino,ca maybe you can take a quick peek...i'll buy the beers!