fnrunner

Alright, I'm officially stumped...

My 85 (22RE) has been down for about a month now due to a bad idle & I can't seem to pin point the problem...so I'm seein if you guys might think of something I haven't tried yet.

First a little history before this problem started...and btw, it was runnin awesome before & after all this, of course until this started.

Fixed all the rust etc, and yeah I never unplugged the battery before welding...yea yeah, so what! And painted the whole truck.
New Doug Thorley Header - re-used O2 sensor <10k miles
New Taylor 8mm plug wires
Then got the new gears & lockers in, built a new front d-shaft, filled 'er up & took it out for a shake down run on some trails up in Peru...this thing is scary awesome on climbs/ decends. It's crazy what gears, lockers & good tires will do!!! I started home & it wants to start acting like it's dying at stop signs. I gas it & it basically comes out of it. Runs fine the rest of the way home. Next day I jump in to go wash it, idles like crap.

Pull the codes = TPS

1985Borg Warner TPS #1 = s@$t - find the main wire from battery to fuse block in eng comp. was f' d up by prev. owner. - Fixed.
Try swapping in the 2 spare ECU's I've picked up over the years. -Nadda.
Replaced EVERY vacuum line I could find.

1985 BW TPS #2 = s@$t - find all 4 TPS wires are s@$t. Twisted together & elect. taped together. I'd love to get ahold of the prev. owner at this point and strangle him w/ these f'in wires!! Crazy thing is I've driven the truck all over for the last 3 yrs like this! insane!
Checked continuity from TPS plug to ECU & voltage @ ECU - check out alright.

1988 BW TPS #3 = WORKS! sort of - well, no more code 7!!!!!!
BUT, the idle is still up/down...up/down & really low.
tried adjusting idle up. nothing.

Last thing tonight...
New Fuel Filter
New NGK plugs
New Cap n rotor...

Still nothing.....same up/down...up/down...low idle

I can try the other ECU's again or maybe try a new reman-ed one? I haven't check the coil or ignitor yet, so might do that tomorrow. I have spares of those too from the junk yard. May try swapping those too.

Oh, and the gas that came out of the filter is black...think the tank is full of crap fuel?

SO any ideas??
Just glad I only live 6 miles from the parts stores!

Thanks!

203Cree

Black gas is bad juju.

Also you need to calibrate the TPS. That should fix your up/down idle problem, lol.

fnrunner

Yeah, I bout crapped when I saw the gas running out of the filter. So I emptied it into an empty gatoraide bottle... good gas is golden in color & this sure isn't that!!!

By calibrate you mean adjust? Yeah, did that...like 100 freakin times. Using the FSM method, Roger Brown's (4Crawler) method, also fom 4Crawler's site quoting Frankenyota's method...
I think I finally got this last one to set properly.
BUT, I'm still skeptical about not using a genuine Toyota Denso part...I may still order one & try it.

fnrunner

Oh, & I cleaned the throttle body too. WHILE THE TPS WAS OFF...

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

This might be out of the general direction your headed but food for thought. Check your vacum lines (all of them) tediously. Also the surging idle issue will point to a bubble in the coolant lines or even a faulty idle air valve. Another direction is in terms of an alternator. So check your grounds and check your connections. Just my 2 cents good luck.

fnrunner

Thanks for the posts so far.

I've looked at or replaced all the vaccum lines, but will see if I've missed any. Maybe I need to burp the coolant system...I thought I did after fixing my rear heater, but maybe I skipped it.

Idle Air Valve is below the throttle body right? Aren't these like $200?! crap...

Keep those ideas comin!

Kiroshu

See if the hose to the idle air valve is not cracked or busted. Try tapping on it and see if idle changes. Alternator was a good idea but unless its the wrong one for the truck and or the lights are on for it and hes having low electrical power issues prolly not.... Adjust TPS properly. Intake leak in main intake hose. Code 7 the only code you got? If all else fails you may have to start looking at your air flow meter. Hows the fuel system? Sea foam works good ifs its been dirty a while.... Intake manifold gasket leaks.... coolant air pockets is possbile too....

fnrunner

I replaced the alternator about a year ago, so am doubting that it's a problem.

Do these IAV's get plugged? Seems like I read while learking around that someone had to clean there's out. Isn't there a coolant line going into it?
I'll try to find that thread...I think I subscribed to it. But seems the guy said it problem went away as it warmed up.

I tried to identify any vacuum leaks with both starting fluid & propane. No change in idle. But it was surging the whole time I did this so not really sure I would notice anything.

I was considering checking the AFM too. I looked at the hose connecting it to the throttle body, maybe while I'm looking at vacuum lines again I'll look at it again too. Wish there was a way to pressurize it & do the soapy water test on it. I noticed some surface cracks in some crevices, but nothing that was all the way through. I'll try propane around it too.

Add sea foam to the fuel? Fuel system is all fairly new...new pump assembly from Toyota, had a crack in a steel line coming out of sender. New pump at same time. New filter today. I'd hate to drain the tank, but I know it was clean last time I was looking there.

Could my EGR be bad?

Fuel pressure regulator?

When I put the reman engine in with all new gaskets for the intake, etc, I had the injectors flow tested and matched. I had to replace one. All new injector seals, screens, etc...my guess/hope is they're all ok still.

203Cree

I've been thinking about your black gas problem. You didn't by chance toss in E85 on accident did you? That's about the only thing I can think of that would possibly cause the gas to go black. Something has to be eating the rubber in the system somewhere, and E85 would be a sure bet on the cause. Bad gas typically turns brown, not black.

fnrunner

today's update...
Replaced each and every vacuum line, except the one to the brake booster, it has some sort of yellow plastic check valve (maybe? - no ref to it in FSMs) in line, so I by-passed it with a new hose. And didn't replace but inspected the one coming out of the valve cover (in front of PCV) that goes to intake plenum...stupid thing goes from 3/8 @ intake, to 5/8 @ valve cover...so it stayed.
Checked AFM to intake hose, cracked in some areas but not all the way through.
Checked per FSM:
Air bypass valve - ok electrically.
Start injector timing switch - ok
Coolant temp switch - ok
cold start injector
Fixed some frayed wires to temp sending unit


Since none of this helped, still need to check:
AFM again
Ignitor
distributor - has new cap n rotor already
coil
start or ignition resistor on pass side inner fender (AL heat sink)
EGR?
EGR Modulator
Drain gas tank -replace w/ new gas. Bad part is that it's almost full! =/

More to come on saturday or sunday...
Thanks for all the reply's so far!! I know I can count on ya'll for ideas!!

fnrunner

203Cree...
Never thought of that! Not sure if that place sells E85, but it's like 30 miles away so I'm gonna have to run up there & see for sure now! Pretty sure I put 89 in tho, since that's what I always run in it.
Some of the gas in the bottle has evaporated & it almost looks like some metal particles are floating in it. I can only image what this is from...
I think I may pull the plug on the bottom of the tank & just drain everything out into a huge clear tote & see what I get.

Boy this sounds like fun!

84toyota4x4extcab

you should check your charcoal canister that could be why your gas in black.. alos the idleing problem i had that problem with mine and my o2 sensor was gone and soon after that my oil pump went

fnrunner

Ok, code 7 is gone...latest code was 11, referring to the AC switch I had jumpered prematurely I'm guessing? *I was about to start adding my on-board air stuff when this all started...this allows use of factory AC pump I'm told...*
So the code 11 is gone since I removed the jumper...

Code 1 now...ECU says all is "normal" but with an bad idle...LOL

Anyway, a friend at work told me to replace the Coolant Temp Switch located under the front of the intake near the Cold Start Injector Timing Switch (also temp sensing), since his went out & was giving him similar symptoms.
No change in idle after this either....

Leaving on vacation to Cali in 2 days so it sits for another week until I get back...

fnrunner

Something I've been thinking about...
While it's idling rough, it seems to be rich...is that just because of the idle being all over the place? Or could this be something else?
Could the timing have jumped somehow? It's not likely...it isn't belt driven so there's no chance of it jumping a tooth... I checked the distributor & it hasn't moved.

Still stumped why this was running awesome one day then the next it idles like crap...

fthertime666

check the coolant lines in the aluminium intake, they get plugged sometimes with corrosion and cr@p, screws up the ecu engine temp, also not sure if it applies to early models but the idle adjust being too high can also cause this... brake pedal cuts fuel to a predeterminded amount blah blah blah

fthertime666

make sure the egr wires arent grouded out or burnt too..............black gas? like black like motor oil?= bad mechanical fuel pump?

fnrunner

black gas issue or concern was resolved. It must have just been coming from filter cause I drained the tank & it all looked like normal gas.

I will have to check EGR closer. Or just take it off. Isn't there a mod to block this off?? I dont have to worry about yearly inspections in Indiana. I looked at all the connections, replaced the vacuum lines, did the propane check to the gasket surfaces to check for leaks...etc. But I did notice seeing some light smoke coming from that area once. But didn't think much of it since I had my hands around that area & assumed it was just burning that off.

After putting in a new O2 sensor, I took it for ride & it seems to go down the road fine, occasionally sputters, & @ every stop does the up/down idle, only about 500 rpms, but it's enough to irritate you.

So I took it for a run with some friends that were going to the Badlands, in case it completely died, I had a way home. It ran all day, funky idle and all, but it motored on like a trooper and got us there, wheeled all day, and made it home...so it's not 100% but the search is still on...

Thanks for all the ideas so far....

fnrunner

Diggin up old threads since I just realized I never posted what I found out on this issue...& I hate it when threads are left open ended!! Anway the EGR was somehow hooked to a vacuum line that had full vacuum @ idle. I hadn't messed with it prior to this so hadn't even considered looking into it until I read the suggestion from fthertime666. This got me thinking so took the EGR off, cleaned it, reinstalled it, same thing, looked it up in the FSM, realized lines were crossed! In the end I tried it connected the right way & completely unconnected & it ran great!! Actually felt stonger out of the hole w/ the EGR disconnected...must be why I've read how some are eliminating the EGR all together.

Sorry for the winded story, just wanted to close the loop & put this one to bed!
THANKS FOR ALL THE REPLIES!

StaSta's_Yota

im having the same issue with my new 22re it idles really low and some caeses dies out until i turned out the idle screw 1/4 turn...it atleast stays alive now....reading this makes me want to cap off my egr to see if that helps like it did you. thanks for the awesome thread...btw