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Alright, thanks. By the way, really, thanks. I'm pretty clueless here. I'll be able to do it much better next time (which I sure hope will be a long time from now), but I don't really have much idea of anything here, obviously, so I appreciate the help.

I'll take the head to a machine shop and see what they think.

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Well on someone's advice I checked the rods last night since the oil pan's off. #3 & 4 have some play in them. Now by now I know your answer....pull the engine. But, do I need to? Can I replace bearings and work on pistons & valve seals with the engine in the truck? Money's very short, so not having to rent an engine hoist and buy beer for friends to come help would be nice if I want to be able to buy the parts to put this thing back together, too......

Red_Chili

You can replace bearings in the truck if and only if your crank is in wonderful shape. No burrs, no grooves, etc. I suppose even then you could pull the crank while the block is in the truck but that would be harder than just pulling the motor.

Yes you can pull the pistons likewise, and throw in new rings, but I bet you won't be happy. My money is on the following:
Ridge > .010 on at least one cylinder
Piston skirts somewhat reduced in measurement leading to excess slap (probably your noise)
Some cylinder and or piston scoring evident
Wrist pin excessive play
Block deck not up to snuff

All of which equates to an overhaul. You can strip the block yourself, and take the block and crank to a good machinist. You can use engnbldr's master rebuild kit and save some serious money. Then reassemble and have a pristine motor.

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Hmm. Ok, now how many special tools etc. do I need for a rebuild? It's never been something I figured I cared to know enough to do. I guess being broke makes me do a lot of things I figured I'd just pay someone to do before, though..still, this is seeming to get beyond my mechanical abilities, seeing as I'm basically going it alone with help from people like you, but I have no one working with me, and no one with experience to help me not make those little begginer mistakes. Not sure how I feel about it all........

Red_Chili

To actually reassemble the motor after you get it back from the machine shop? Not too many really. And many are available at Checkers/Kragen etc. to borrow. You need good torque wrenches capable of the values specified in the FSM, ring compressor, normal hand tools and sockets. Some 1/2" drive stuff for things like bearing caps and whatnot. An old fashioned oil can is really helpful believe it or not. You want to apply 30W to stuff as an assembly lube.

My machine shop (Gunn's in Denver) was extremely helpful. He gave me a LOT of tips about reassembly, most of which I used, some of which were just personal preference. See if yours will give you pointers. Some of the smaller private auto parts places are helpful too, if you buy something from them (out of courtesy to them). The FSM is very good, though the organization can be frustrating. It's all in there.

Ted or Tod at www.engnbldr.com are EXTREMELY helpful. Give them a shout. Buy your master kit from them.

It is not as hard as it seems when you are looking into the engine bay.

Red_Chili

BTW, a quote from an Aussie acquaintance continues to inspire me. Typical Aussie audacity.

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Yup, good or bad, I'm going for it, and the parts will be coming from engnbldr.com. Ok, I'll find out who the Toyota dealership works with for machining and check them out.

So, do I need to pull the engine & crank before ordering the kit? I heard something about if the crank is damaged then you do something that will require larger bearings...........so would it be best to have all the info before I order the rebuild kit, or is the kit the same regarldless of what's wrong with the engine?

I guess I basically need to pull the engine, flip it on it's head, take out all those rods & bearings, and bring the block, head and (sorry but my terminology's not up to snuff since haven't pulled this stuff yet) the crank? to the machine shop to see what they need? Most likely have the head and block shaved, cylinders honed and............?

Any of that confused, nonsensical? What exactly are you calling the crank? It is what the rods are on with all the bearings, like a pole that goes through the engine, or is it an integrated part of the block?

Red_Chili

The crank is the spinny-around part that the connecting rods connect to...
Yes, if the crank is at all damaged from worn bearings, the machine shop may need to resurface the bearing surfaces which will require oversize replacement bearings. Some machine shops like to supply the bearings themselves, and sometimes even the pistons, while some will let you order your own and they hold off machine work until they have the replacements in hand.

I took my whole short block (the block with pistons and crank in place, but minus everything else) to Gunn's, and they were happy to disassemble as it really is not that much work. That way your parts all stay together. I actually used Gunn to order the kit - it was faster - and they use the same Topline parts Ted uses. Probably cost me $10-15 more. I got $100 worth of free advice from them, so I don't mind.

The machine shop can take a look at the block and crank and tell you what they recommend doing, then you go from there.

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Ok. So next step is to rent an engine hoist I guess. It's safe to set the block upside down, right? Since all the guts are hanging out the bottom?

Red_Chili

Sure, as long as you don't put it on anything that can damage the block deck. My workbench is wood, covered with sanded 3/16" steel. I used a piece of cardboard cut from an old box as a cushion.

When you get it back, you can get some Duplicolor engine paint and make the newly cleaned block right purty too...

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Yeah, it'll be nice to have a clean engine, along with a rebuilt one!

Well, I went to the machine shop the Toyota dealership uses. They told me a few things..........first off they insisted that I want to bore the cylinders, not just hone them. Really? Without even looking first? They figured around $200 for the boring, checking the head & block for flatness, something about intake & exhause guides. Just curious if this is the shop for me.

If I can get everything figured out, I may rent an engine hoist this weekend. Oh yeah, is the block iron? Just the head's aluminum?

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Oh, and once I've got it up in the hoist....well how heavy is it? Will I be able to flip it over to get everything removed from it? Is it a two person job once it's up out of the engine bay, or is it pretty heavy even for that many people?

I want to get it to the machine shop this week, and I'd like to only rent the hoist for one day, so I'd like an idea of what I'm up against. Thanks.

Sked

I pulled my engine by myslef in like 20 mins when everything was already unbolted and unhooked. Pulling it isnt the hard part, its putting it back in and lining up the tranny. Make sure you take the rad and fan off.

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Well, there's nothing in my engine compartment but the exhaust and alternator right now, so that's not a problem. So it's only heavy enough that you need a hoist to get it out of the engine compartment, then I can move it myself? The head is also off of it.

The tranny is being replaced next anyway...easier to put the engine back in with the tranny out? Or is it better have it in so I have something to tell me when the engine is in right? Thanks a lot.

Red_Chili

The motor mounts should line it up pretty well without the tranny.

Lifting the empty block (pistons, crank removed) is on the heavy side of doable. Lifting a loaded shortblock, not so much. Two people can lift a shortblock.

You need an engine stand to keep your sanity. The final disassembly/ initial reassembly can be done on a bench but after that, it is much nicer to have the stand.

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Ok. Maybe once I see what the engine looks like out of the truck I'll be able to figure out a cheap engine stand with some 2x4's.

Does somewhere around $200 sound reasonable for boring, skimming head & block, maybe crank and intake & exhaust somethings....man I can't remember all the things they mentioned now. Guess I should have written it down. I guess I'll get it to them and see what they say it needs. I just hate doing that when I don't know yet if I can trust them.

Thanks for all the help. Once I get the rebuild kit and start putting it back together I hope I don't have a rediculous amount of questions...and hopefully I won't make any stupid beginner mistakes.

I actually just got another quote for $450ish, worst case. Pricey...that'd be cleaning, boring, crank head and block resurfacing. I think it didn't include if parts needed to be replaced....yikes! Hopefully I won't need all that work.

Red_Chili

eek. Harbor Freight or Checkers/Schucks/Kragen sell some inexpensive ones. MUCH better than 2x4s.
I got my shortblock done, along with the new timing cover milled to match the block decking (this is important - and often missed - because the timing cover can actually keep the head from seating fully if the block is decked), with new pistons/rings/wristpins/all motor bearings/crank polish for around $430. Don't know how it broke down really, so I am not a good reference.
You will. It's how we all get smart.

What a stupid system.

That should include parts (at least for the short block). If not, it is too high unless they are really doing a full head overhaul, valve grind/new seats maybe, new guides & seals, maybe new springs... ???

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You don't like my ghetto engine stand idea? Ok.

I think the $450 may have been worst case. I like them (as far as the conversation I had) better than the first shop I was talking to so...

That's interesting about the timing cover....wasn't planning on having it until after the machining, since I was going to order everything at once and need to see what they do before I'll know what to order from engnbldr....wonder how I can work that one out. Thanks for that bit of knowledge, I'll bring it up with them. Depending on how much debt I want, I may have them put the lower part of the engine back together, then do the timiming stuff & head gasket myself. Depends on what it all costs. Only one way to get those stupid beginner mistakes out of the way, but....I don't know how many times I really plan on doing this. We shall see.

Thanks! If everything goes well (right) the engine will come out tonight.

Red_Chili

The lower part of the engine assembly (short block) is easy to do yourself - especially if the shop assembles the rods to the pistons in order to verify the wrist pin clearances etc.

The only tricky part is making sure your ring compressor is on all the way and fully tightened down before you tap the piston down the hole. Don't ask me how I learned that one... You'll break a ring if you don't. Then if your Maker smiles upon you, you will find a friend who did likewise and therefore has extra rings laying around.

The FSM also rightly mentions putting some tubing on the rod studs so you don't mar your branny new shiney crank surfaces.

Other than that, there is really no trick to it. Follow the FSM and you will be a happy boy.

Use 30W oil as an assembly lube, partially pack the oil pump - not too much - with something like white lithium grease (others use Vaseline, or so I hear) and plan on cranking the engine (coil disconnected) until your oil pressure comes up. Good idea to put moly grease on the cam surfaces. You have probably read the drill on clearing the head bolt threads, and making SURE there is no coolant nor oil in them, or you will hydrolock them when you torque things down, and your head won't be sealed to the HG and block.

BTW I looked up the invoice for my machine work. I paid $320 labor for block cleaning, bore, hone, deck, crank polish (my crank was, fortunately, good), fitment of wrist pin/piston/rod assemblies, and sizing all the bearings (stock in my case).

New head, so I didn't need any head work. Engnbldr performance head, oversize SS valves, RV cam. My rockers were pristine. I think the PO probably did something very bad and got new top end parts, they looked that new.

83

Great, thanks. If the block and head are going in to be machined, though, do I still need to worry about coolant in the threads?
That looks like a pretty similar price to what I'm hearing, so that's good. Alright, I'll see what it needs and what it costs and go from there. Thanks!