leafsprung

I recently installed new timing chain cover gaskets and oil pan gasket and now no oil pressure. Pan was dry and clean when reinstalled. At first, I did not prime the oil pump as oil was still throughout the engine. Then, took it off and primed it, still nothing. I used a compressor to blow in oil pump routing holes. I felt air come out the oil filter path, and heard bubbling sounds down where the pickup tube sits in the oil. I am assuming this means no constriction. Although I suppose air can get to where oil cannot? The engine is high mileage, but babied, and oil changed often. The chain guards looked great, for example. However, towards the end, it leaked so much oil that new oil was always being put in, and I didn't change the filter as much. It seemed that when I did that oil was not pooled here as much as previously. I am wondering if something got blocked on filter side, but was still able to lubricate everything. Is there a relief valve in engine? ....I really don't know what a worn oil pump looks like. The gears fit nice, no burrs, etc. Wouldn't an old pump at least create something, especially when primed? Also, this was checked with valve cover off. Is it possible that the cover adds needed resistance to flow? Finally, does anyone know if there is a diagram of oil flow on the 22r? Not an abstract, but an actual representation would be great. What about relief valve in oil pump? I took off the cap and there was a spring there, as expected. Don't know how to tell if it is bad, or blocking the whole system. Any ideas, suggestions, diagrams- thank you so much!

slacker

iTrader: (1)

what are you using to measure oil pressure ?



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leafsprung

Mechanical oil pressure guage (new). No oil even made it up the tube. It is a white/clear tube and I am assuming it would be visible. But no oil in oil filter. Oil did not splash down from oil pump when I removed it again.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

you sure you put the oil pump drive gear in ?


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leafsprung

Yeah. More than once, as I have had it out to look at it. I found some specs for allowable clearances within the pump so maybe I'll check those out. Guess I've got to drop the pan to check the pickup (although seemed fine, and blew air down it okay anyway). Now I am thinking of making a primer tool to get oil to everywhere while I still figure this out. All ideas appreciated.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

I do know the oils first path is to the timing chain tensioner .
you do not have to prime a toyota pump , but on install packing the gears with white lith. grease will help with that . The timing cover mounting surface also has a large factor on oil pressure values , but you said it is new ? this all said .. you do know the factory specs for pressure @ idle are like 4LBS right ?
I do have the oil flow path pic .. it's in a book at the shop , I have written myself a note , to scan it for you . I'll post it up tomorrow



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New Red Truck

The relief valve isn't too hard to remove and inspect. You might try that while waiting for the diagram.

slacker

iTrader: (1)

here's your pic





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leafsprung

Thanks Slacker! Well today I made my homemade oil priming tool with a $10 garden sprayer. I hooked it up at the oil guage location (and blocked off the path to oil pump). It took a while, but it filled up the oil filter, and when I pulled the oil pan I could see the crank dripping, as it came through the bearings. I coudn't tell if any made it to the top, as oil was already pooled there. What path does the oil take to get up top? Is there one path or a plurality? Through head or TC cover? Maybe my homemade special lacked the pressure necessary but I would like to be sure that the galley(s) to the top are clear. I also pulled my pan (not easy with silicone only- no cork) and checked my pickup tube. I didn't see any blockage and I could breathe through it. Although it seems slightly less restrictive since spraying it. Now soaking overnight. At this point I have no idea why zero pressure, although maybe with oil filter full of oil might help. Thanks for your help.

leafsprung

Well I cleaned and soaked pickup tube, primed the system with oil with a garden sprayer attached to oil guage inlet path, lightly primed gears in oil pump with assembly lube, and cleaned out oil pump relief valve. On running, oil streams from oil filter area (if you loosen filter) and from guage inlet (if you take out hose), but when attached, oil will not come up clear plastic hose to guage. Guage reads zero. Could I be getting oil to the filter strongly but not send it up a small hose? I also have an engine noise that disturbs me. Kind of between a knock and an exhaust leak. Replaced exhaust manifold gasket and could find no other leak. Engine runs smooth. My fear is this could be a bearing going bad, but unsure how to diagnose this.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

How do you know the gauge is good?

Bingle

Did you check that the port in the block where you put the "sender" for the gauge wasn't blocked? I have the same or similar kind of gauge and oil comes most of the way up the tube to the gauge and you can see it. You didn't pull one of your oil galley plugs for some reason and forget to put it back in? I had that problem when I did a full rebuild, missed the one on the bottom of the block and got 0 psi. There's one on the front behind timing cover and one in back as well.

leafsprung

@Dropzone. Do not know if guage is good. It is new. Even when I disconnect guage from hose no oil moves up through tube (it flows out of sender hole if I disconnect everything). If I rev motor a little, oil comes up very slowly, but never reaches guage. Is it possible I am putting out about 2 psi or something, enough to send it along the main galley but not enough to up a little tube? Also, how do I diagnose bearings? I disconnected one plug wire at a time and no difference in noise I have. Not sure if this tells me anything. Any thoughts on any of this much appreciated!

leafsprung

@Bingle. If I take sendor out, oil flows out. With guage and tube in, it won't come up the tube at idle and moves very slowly if I rev motor, but never reaches guage. I wonder if I have enough psi to move oil to main galley but not up a little tube. This was just a timing chain cover gasket replacement. No galley plugs touched. Also, how do I diagnose bearings? Dissconnected each plug one at a time and heard no difference in my noise. Not sure if this means anything. Any thoughts much appeciated! Btw, great truck!

leafsprung

Alright here's my latest theory: When reinstalling my TC cover and everything, I stripped the top bolt on the oil pump and it sucked in air. My oil idiot light was out and by the time I knew something wrong a main bearing was out. Now there is some, but minimal, oil pressure as the oil flows past a larger bearing clearance. Would I make it for awhile if I replaced main and rod bearings? Would TC cover have to come back off? What about transmission? I also might be able to throw in a 22r motor from a '91 or '92 camry. Would this bolt to my 1981 5 speed? Would my intake manifold bolt to this head? Thanks

Bingle

Thanks for the comment on the truck. She's been my girl since '93.

Sounds like you're best bet is gonna be to do a full rebuild (bottom end at least). Later engine is gonna be different. Heads changed in '84 IIRC. Bottom end's main difference is the TC but there might be some other diff as well. You have the 2 row TC in yours, right? Should in a '81.

Minimum I'd do, with what you've just described, would be hone cylanders, have crank and bearing journals machened, new bearings, rings, and oil pump. You can do a search on here for "oil pump clearance" and find out if yours is worn out, but if you're doing new bottom end stuff, I'd just get a new one. Or get a rebuilt "early" 22r bottom end and slap your head on it.

22R's are pretty bulletproof, but you can kill them, and it sounds like you're well on your way. Sorry and good luck.

leafsprung

Yeah I know I should do all of that. It's just the money right now. I pulled the pan this morning and number 1 and number 4 rods seem to have a miniscule up and down motion in them. Bearings looked ok actually. Crank too. Although I haven't checked all of them yet. Main number 1 was worn through to the copper. So this (and rod bearings) may be the noise and loss of oil pressure. For now I am going to roll the dice and just replace these bearings. How do I tell at what level crank has been turned? The rod caps have #1,1,1, and 2 on them respectively. The mains have #79. Main bearing reads M1 1068-UL, 25. Rod= C1 1133 25. Thanks

leafsprung

Well I was able to change main and rod bearings. (Noise gone!). Some of the mains were at .125 mm (std clearance .025 to .055, max .080) and one rod was a little excessive. But journals were decent enough. Btw I was able to replace the mains (upper and lower, while not taking tranny or TC cover out.) Everything now within spec. There was still zero oil pressure. Replaced oil pump (I know- should have been my first step- but there was no visual difference at all between the old and new pumps as old pump seemed fine-lesson learned.) and now top end noise gone! However, I have 55 psi at idle and 75 at 3000 rpm and I have a timing chain noise. I think I ran a top oil pump bolt in too far recently and may have slightly affected the tensioner. But I am worried that the pressure is too high. Could high pressure be a contributing factor in tensioner malady? Or would any pressure be good as long as not zero or miniscule? How much influence does oil filter and oil viscosity have? I am running a Partsmaster oil flter and 20-50 oil with a quart of Lucas. (20-50 out of habit for many oil leaks- which for now are fixed) I bought a timing chain kit but am looking for suggestions in the concern that high pressure will affect the new tensioner.

Bingle

That doesn't seem too high. Mine runs close to those psi's when first starting and comes down some after warming up. 20w50 is a thicker oil so you would see some slightly higher #'s. I could be wrong, but dosen't seem like anything is "wrong" at this point. More psi = more pressure on tensioner = less slop in the chain. my oppinion would be to put your timing kit in, give it a good tune up and be done with it, baring any new problems showing up.

leafsprung

Ok, sounds good. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.